Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

MrPudding

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well if I hear it I'll tell you.

I've lived in England for 8 years and have only heard Ulster being referred to a couple of times, usually in a jokey "Ulster says no" kind of context. Most refer to it as Northern Ireland or just Ireland and a surprising number don't realise Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

MrP

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I'll do what I want.

If you wore plastic hooves and a mane it would also be doing what you want but it wouldn't mean you're a Pony.

D'ya understand?

Can't erase what we call our homeland. You seem obsessed with it, it takes you way off topic in the thread too.

Ferrari3600

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then do that and get back to Foster when they accept. An all Ireland forum is unrealistic and Kenny should know it.

If people like you were listened to in the early to mid 1990s , there would be no peace process in the first place, and hundreds of people alive now would be dead.

Fortunately, wiser counsel prevailed.

Panthro

My baby don't mess around because she loves me so and this I know for sho...

Who me? Dragging the thread off topic?

Noo wayyyy

LordSutch

MrPudding wrote: »

I've lived in England for 8 years and have only heard Ulster being referred to a couple of times, usually in a jokey "Ulster says no" kind of context. Most refer to it as Northern Ireland or just Ireland and a surprising number don't realise Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

You would be even more surprised at the amount of English people who think the ROI is still part of the UK. Many English people don't get the whole 'seperate state' thingy

tomwaterford

LordSutch wrote: »

You would be even more surprised at the amount of English people who think the ROI is still part of the UK. Many English people don't get the whole 'seperate state' thingy

These were the exact misinformed type people what got brexit passed ??

steddyeddy

If people can't understand why Arlene wouldn't want to enter an economic forum about Brexit then there's no hope for them.

About 40% of Northern Ireland's exports go to the Republic. If this is affected by Brexit (it will be) then it is in Arelene's interests to seek to limit that damage. Instead you have Arlene playing up to tribal politics and insisting that she has nothing to do with the Republic.

She doesn't have anything to do with the Republic. She's British and I'm very happy to count someone like her as British rather than Irish but she has to realise that her country relies on trade with the Republic.

The BBC reports that Arlene's lambasting of the Irish government has fallen on confused ears.

Mrs Foster also criticised the Irish government for allowing "political instability in Dublin" to drive its decision making "as much as any concern for Northern Ireland".
"While they seek to take the views of people in Northern Ireland on the issue of Brexit at home, their (the Irish government's) representatives are sent out around the world to talk down our economy and attempt to poach our investors," she said.
Reacting to her comments on Sunday, the Republic of Ireland's Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan said he was "very surprised and concerned" about Mrs Foster's remarks.
The Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness shared Mr Flanagan's sentiments in an interview with the Irish Broadcaster RTÉ.
Mr McGuinness told RTÉ he met with a Chinese investor alongside Mrs Foster and the Chief Executive of Invest NI, but that Mrs Foster's did not mention her concerns.
He added that Northern Ireland would be "living in a fools paradise" if it did not consider that US investors would be cautious about the market as a result of Brexit uncertainty.

steddyeddy

LordSutch wrote: »

You would be even more surprised at the amount of English people who think the ROI is still part of the UK. Many English people don't get the whole 'seperate state' thingy

As we have seen in Brexit many English don't get a lot of things. On the day of the leave vote many googled "what is the EU?". You have to fear for their future

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

If people can't understand why Arlene wouldn't want to enter an economic forum about Brexit then there's no hope for them.

About 40% of Northern Ireland's exports go to the Republic. If this is affected by Brexit (it will be) then it is in Arelene's interests to seek to limit that damage. Instead you have Arlene playing up to tribal politics and insisting that she has nothing to do with the Republic.

She doesn't have anything to do with the Republic. She's British and I'm very happy to count someone like her as British rather than Irish but she has to realise that her country relies on trade with the Republic.

The BBC reports that Arlene's lambasting of the Irish government has fallen on confused ears.

The thing is though - the pathetic hypocritical thing - is that she does deal with the South, all the time, because she has to, because the footdraggers in the party she represented had an internationally binding agreement signed above their heads because their objections to it were ignored and the world moved on.

All she was doing was falling back on stock DUP belligerence, enacted whenever the DUP take themselves down a blind alley of their reactionary, outdated, archaic, religiously bigoted policies.
She is attempting to take attention away from the huge gaff of supporting Brexit while she gets on with quietly pleading for special treatment.

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

As we have seen in Brexit many English don't get a lot of things. On the day of the leave vote many googled "what is the EU?". You have to fear for their future

I agree many people voted to leave becasuse of total ignorance, which included an uneducated fear of all foreigners + the 350k NHS myth.

However, now that the dust is settling and things are beginning to creep out of No10 (Nissan deal) being the 1st glimmer of light, I wonder might Brexit be a stroke of unwitting genius (in the long term)?

Of course its far too early to say, but it is possible that although many Brexiteers voted through ignorance & without proper knowledge, they just might have unwittingly voted for something (still unknown) that can & will work?

Its certainly not looking half as bleak as many predicted pre-Brexit.

Next trick will be to keep all the banks in the City ...

Calina

LordSutch wrote: »

I agree many people voted to leave becasuse of total ignorance, which included an uneducated fear of all foreigners + the 350k NHS myth.

However, now that the dust is settling and things are beginning to creep out of No10 (Nissan deal) being the 1st glimmer of light, I wonder might Brexit be a stroke of unwitting genius (in the long term)?

Of course its far too early to say, but it is possible that although many Brexiteers voted through ignorance & without proper knowledge, they just might have unwittingly voted for something (still unknown) that can & will work?

Its certainly not looking half as bleak as many predicted pre-Brexit.

Next trick will be to keep all the banks in the City ...

Either the Nissan deal will cost a fortune or it suggests that the UK is seeking single market membership. This is at odds with comments at the Tory party conference.

I see it more as muddying the water more than a glimmer of light.

Anita Blow

But single market membership is essentially ruled out by May's speech which said she would not accept jurisdiction of the ECJ, regulations & free movement. They could get single market access like South Korea & Canada without these, but free market access does not include financial services & the EU (nor Frankfurt nor Paris) are likely to make an exception. I'd imagine the UK will get access for goods which is why the Nissan deal was made, but its a services economy and without access for services, London will suffer.

Capt'n Midnight

Anita Blow wrote: »

But single market membership is essentially ruled out by May's speech which said she would not accept jurisdiction of the ECJ, regulations & free movement. They could get single market access like South Korea & Canada without these, but free market access does not include financial services & the EU (nor Frankfurt nor Paris) are likely to make an exception. I'd imagine the UK will get access for goods which is why the Nissan deal was made, but its a services economy and without access for services, London will suffer.

UK economy is 80% services.

Speaking of Frankfurt, the London Stock Exchange may have to sell off it's French clearing house to facilitate merger with the Deutsche Börse.


The Canada deal took seven years. 38 National and Regional parliaments had to agree. The UK has pretty much lost it's EU veto now because to exercise it before article 50 would tempt a tit for tat later.

Can any Brexiter explain why the UK revert back to the status Canada had ?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/30/eu-canada-sign-ceta-free-trade-deal-trudeau-juncker

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, apologised to MPs last week for not allowing a parliamentary debate on the trade deal. He said holding up the agreement would have made the UK unpopular with other EU members but also with Canada and that the deal was worth £1.3bn a year to Britain.

Fox said the UK parliament could still veto the deal and he warned that problems in agreeing Ceta showed the difficulty Britain could face in negotiating a trade agreement with the EU.

Supporters of Ceta say it will increase Canadian-EU trade by 20% and boost the EU economy by €12bn (£10.9bn) a year and Canada’s by C$12bn (£7.4bn).

ambro25

LordSutch wrote: »

I agree many people voted to leave becasuse of total ignorance, which included an uneducated fear of all foreigners + the 350k NHS myth.

However, now that the dust is settling and things are beginning to creep out of No10 (Nissan deal) being the 1st glimmer of light, I wonder might Brexit be a stroke of unwitting genius (in the long term)?

Of course its far too early to say, but it is possible that although many Brexiteers voted through ignorance & without proper knowledge, they just might have unwittingly voted for something (still unknown) that can & will work?

Its certainly not looking half as bleak as many predicted pre-Brexit.

Next trick will be to keep all the banks in the City ...

I have little doubt that, provided that May isn't actually engaged in out-putining Putin in the Maskirovka stakes with her handling of the Brexit vote, then this will eventually work out.

But then, there's working...and there's performing: a 1.8 TDI Mondeo works just the same as a 4.5 AMG Merc, both will get you from A to B.

I know which one I'd rather be driven in

As for a stroke of unwitting genius? Nope, not without donning the 20/20 hindsight goggles in 10 years' time, and provided that a lot of people work a lot of hard and long hours in the meantime.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The thing is though - the pathetic hypocritical thing - is that she does deal with the South, all the time, because she has to, because the footdraggers in the party she represented had an internationally binding agreement signed above their heads because their objections to it were ignored and the world moved on.

All she was doing was falling back on stock DUP belligerence, enacted whenever the DUP take themselves down a blind alley of their reactionary, outdated, archaic, religiously bigoted policies.
She is attempting to take attention away from the huge gaff of supporting Brexit while she gets on with quietly pleading for special treatment.

With her views on gays and dealing with anything Irish noted, she seems to be playing to the bigot vote so prevalent in unionism.

It also seems she is inflaming the Irish government. All this while John Kerry is over in Ireland. He must be really impressed with how Arelene handles business. He stipulated that the peace process in Northern Ireland must be respected. From the Belfast Telegraph.

Stormont First Minister Arlene Foster levelled the claim at her Democratic Unionist Party conference on Saturday and also said concerns in Dublin about Brexit were driven by political instability.

The Foreign Minister has said he is very concerned and surprised about allegations that government officials in the Republic were poaching foreign investment from Northern Ireland.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Charlie Flanagan said he rang the Northern Ireland Economy Minister and Ms Foster's party colleague Simon Hamilton to raise the accusation.

"I'm very concerned at these remarks," he said.

Mr Flanagan also said he was "very concerned at the claim that representatives of the Irish Government where allegedly talking down the Northern Ireland economy".

He added: "I'm concerned that allegations of representatives of the Irish state were in any way poaching business."

In her speech to the DUP faithful Ms Foster said relations with Dublin were as good as they ever had been but she warned ties with the EU were not as important as the benefits of being in the UK.

Mr Flanagan addressed the row after holding talks with US secretary of state John Kerry as the key White House figure collected the Tipperary International Peace Prize for 2015.

Mr Kerry warned about risks to the Northern Ireland peace process if there are changes to the border with the Republic on the back of Brexit.

"People need to be really careful with downstream consequences, that one choice can have an impact on other aspects and whatever happens to the border, how that border access is managed," Mr Kerry said.

"It's really critical that it be done very thoughtfully and very sensitively so that it does not have any impact."

LordSutch

ambro25 wrote: »

But then, there's working...and there's performing: a 1.8 TDI Mondeo works just the same as a 4.5 AMG Merc, both will get you from A to B.

I know which one I'd rather be driven in

:eek:

In its heyday the Mondeo was a beautiful thing, as was the Montego

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The thing is though - the pathetic hypocritical thing - is that she does deal with the South, all the time, because she has to, because the footdraggers in the party she represented had an internationally binding agreement signed above their heads because their objections to it were ignored and the world moved on.

All she was doing was falling back on stock DUP belligerence, enacted whenever the DUP take themselves down a blind alley of their reactionary, outdated, archaic, religiously bigoted policies.
She is attempting to take attention away from the huge gaff of supporting Brexit while she gets on with quietly pleading for special treatment.

With her views on gays and dealing with anything Irish noted, she seems to be playing to the bigot vote so prevalent in unionism.

It also seems she is inflaming the Irish government. All this while John Kerry is over in Ireland. He must be really impressed with how Arelene handles business. He stipulated that the peace process in Northern Ireland must be respected. From the Belfast Telegraph.

Stormont First Minister Arlene Foster levelled the claim at her Democratic Unionist Party conference on Saturday and also said concerns in Dublin about Brexit were driven by political instability.

The Foreign Minister has said he is very concerned and surprised about allegations that government officials in the Republic were poaching foreign investment from Northern Ireland.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Charlie Flanagan said he rang the Northern Ireland Economy Minister and Ms Foster's party colleague Simon Hamilton to raise the accusation.

"I'm very concerned at these remarks," he said.

Mr Flanagan also said he was "very concerned at the claim that representatives of the Irish Government where allegedly talking down the Northern Ireland economy".

He added: "I'm concerned that allegations of representatives of the Irish state were in any way poaching business."

In her speech to the DUP faithful Ms Foster said relations with Dublin were as good as they ever had been but she warned ties with the EU were not as important as the benefits of being in the UK.

Mr Flanagan addressed the row after holding talks with US secretary of state John Kerry as the key White House figure collected the Tipperary International Peace Prize for 2015.

Mr Kerry warned about risks to the Northern Ireland peace process if there are changes to the border with the Republic on the back of Brexit.

"People need to be really careful with downstream consequences, that one choice can have an impact on other aspects and whatever happens to the border, how that border access is managed," Mr Kerry said.

"It's really critical that it be done very thoughtfully and very sensitively so that it does not have any impact."

Protestants in NI won't listen to that yankee. Besides he is talking utter drivel about the "peace process".

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Protestants in NI won't listen to that yankee. Besides he is talking utter drivel about the "peace process".

Out of curiosity, what do you think of Arelene's views on gays?

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Protestants in NI won't listen to that yankee. Besides he is talking utter drivel about the "peace process".

Why would only protestants not listen to him?
Sometimes I think you are a parody account. It helps me stay positive about the world.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would only protestants not listen to him?
Sometimes I think you are a parody account. It helps me stay positive about the world.

I think he means loyalist rather than protestants.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think he means loyalist rather than protestants.

I'm not sure he even knows what he means. What a ridiculous thing to say, have protestants one voice on what they think of certain 'yankees' or do loyalists even?

Capt'n Midnight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm not sure he even knows what he means. What a ridiculous thing to say, have protestants one voice on what they think of certain 'yankees' or do loyalists even?

+1

Ulster unionists are a very small sub set of protestants.

And not only are the UUP and UDP split over many issues including Brexit, there are schisms within the parties too.

It's like Lord of the Flies , with grown ups.


And there's the Alliance Party too. And that not counting all the other organisations.

catbear

Did someone turnoff off all the Leave-bots?

Dyr

catbear wrote: »

Did someone turnoff off all the Leave-bots?

They're being reprogrammed for november

http://pm1.narvii.com/5937/09e1624a4998a4f0c0cd12bd34652d7f553674e8_hq.jpg

wes

Liam Fox's attempt to secure pre-Brexit deal with EU suffers setback

---

Criticising positions of “ultra-legality”, Fox argued it was in the interests of both sides to avoid a situation where a regional parliament could delay a UK-EU economic agreement, in the same way the Belgian region of Wallonia blocked an EU trade deal with Canada.

---

Looks like Fox hasn't quite coped that the EU can't negotiate a trade deal with a member, and criticizing it as "ultra-legality" is utterly stupid. The entire notion that the EU will violate its own rules for Brexit Britain, which would itself then result in legal challenges, makes 0 sense.

I doubt anyone in the EU, is all that bothered with going out of there way to help Brexiters, what with the decades of lies and insults they have flung at the EU. I am sure every MEP remembers Farage's performance after Brexit.

Fox really should have done his home work. The man doesn't have a clue, and is imho incompetent.

demfad

LordSutch wrote: »

I agree many people voted to leave becasuse of total ignorance, which included an uneducated fear of all foreigners + the 350k NHS myth.

However, now that the dust is settling and things are beginning to creep out of No10 (Nissan deal) being the 1st glimmer of light, I wonder might Brexit be a stroke of unwitting genius (in the long term)?

Of course its far too early to say, but it is possible that although many Brexiteers voted through ignorance & without proper knowledge, they just might have unwittingly voted for something (still unknown) that can & will work?

Its certainly not looking half as bleak as many predicted pre-Brexit.

Next trick will be to keep all the banks in the City ...

I don't think it's a stroke of unwitting genius. If there was no Brexit there would be no issue with Nissan. Nissan have been given a whole lot of promises just to keep the status quo for the next few years.
Everybody will now be queuing up for the same deal.

The minister in question Clarke, indicated that Nissan were promised that the car industry at least would remain part of the European Customs Union. If you are in the customs union then you must have a common external tariff and that means NO trade deals for the UK.

A kind of hybrid customs deal where certain British industries are in and certain industries are out is in fairness unworkable and impossible for Europe to deliver.

If the UK is not in the customs Union then not only is it WTO rules but the British government will pay all the tariffs for the big industries. This will involve colossal amounts of money. This will subsume public spending and large, medium and small industry will be left to the wolves. It is in effect paying for the charade that Brexit is somehow OK. This is not sustainable and cannot happen.

That means that before any negotiations have taken place the UK have check mated itself. They have promised what they have promised to Nissan. The choice will be stay within the customs Union and obey the rules or out they go with WTO rules paying massive amounts of money to keep industries sweet at the expense of public spending.

Economics will take precedent over politics and the immigration angle will be dropped. It's only a red herring anyway with intra EU immigration significantly less than external immigration. The Tories have been exaggerating it for years including especially Theresa May.

The correct thing to do is call the farce off. The Tories should focus on finding a way out politically from this mess.

steddyeddy

The Uk's economy was growing faster than any in the world. Why stop that?

catbear

Just heard May on the news ripping into UEFA for not letting the poppy be allowed on kits. Obviously everyone in the world must observe the poppy and religious/political proscriptions are anti-British!

Actually anyone holding out hope that she's some sly fox that's going to bring the UK to its senses via a slow drip of economic shocks is going to be disappointed. They're going full retard.

demfad

catbear wrote: »

Just heard May on the news ripping into UEFA for not letting the poppy be allowed on kits. Obviously everyone in the world must observe the poppy and religious/political proscriptions are anti-British!

Actually anyone holding out hope that she's some sly fox that's going to bring the UK to its senses via a slow drip of economic shocks is going to be disappointed. They're going full retard.

A European organisation imposing rules on a British institution!

Populism at its best/worst

catbear

demfad wrote: »

A European organisation imposing rules on a British institution!

Populism at its best/worst

UKip has a new target, to get the UK out of UEFA and take back their football.

I was very negative about our gombeen politicians with their bank guarantee but by god in retrospect they seem like harmless amateurs.

The only place HMS Britannia is heading is the saragossa sea.