Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You've called my position regressive but you haven't actually explained why it is in you it view regressive. All I can see is you seem to think favoring a united Ireland = progressive and favoring unity with Britain = regressive. Where neither of these ideologies are, on their own, progressive or regressive.

I understand that you're annoyed the first minister cost the conference authenticity by boycotting the event but you must understand it in the context that Kenny's comments on a UI being part of the discussions on Brexit crossed a line. Arlene as a unionist first minister of NI then had a duty distance herself from those comments to send a very clear signal to both the British and Irish governments that no, unification is not on the table under any circumstances.

Attending an all Ireland conference after the Irish Taoiseach raised the possibility of a United Ireland would have sent the opposite signal that unionists are open to consideration on the idea.

Put it this way. Imagine the British PM raised the possibility of Ireland rejoining the UK then chaired an all British Isles conference chaired by the British to synergize foreign policy. Would the Taoiseach attend? Of course not. To expect a different reaction from a British nationalist is unrealistic.

You may not like that Arlene snubbed her nose at Kenny, or even agree with her. But you should at least understand why she did it and that any step towards a united Ireland in any circumstance is going to be opposed.

Dialogue is progressive.
Ignorant comments based on your bigotry are regressive.
Isolating yourself because of that stupid bigotry is regressive.

Can I be any clearer?

lightspeed

what will be most interesting is what happens if Scotland leave and are all the better for it?

Id imagine the British government would be so stunned and embarrassed that they will pump more money into northern Ireland to desperately convince the people that they are better in the UK than out.

However, hard to imagine that approach would be sustainable if the economy suffers more in mainland Britain.

We are already seeing huge retail price increases due to fall of sterling and a lot of companies worried and expressing thoughts of leaving the UK. The current british government refused to say what assurances they gave to Nissan to commit to stay in Britain after Brexit. Whatever they were, it must be costing a good heap of money from British exchequer.

Also I read that Wales receives a whole lot of funding from EU which will now vanish. Will the British government be able to pump enough money into Wales to prevent them from voicing thoughts of leaving down the line?


The reality is though that the unionists will never accept the outcome of a NI referendum if the result was to leave the UK and join the republic. There would be some terrorist activity in short term.

From the unionist point of view, clearly the good friday agreement was signed on the basis that we can have peace if we let the silly paddys have their fantasies of a united ireland with no intention of ever allowing it to be a real possibility.

Having said that, I cant understand why Sinn Fein were opposed to Brexit? I thought that unionists supported it so we would not face this exact situation were the break up of UK would be in the peoples mindset. Surely Brexit is good for Sinn Fein desire for United Ireland if it could lead to people thinking they need to get out of UK.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Some of the provo admirers on here would think she should have been murdered or even thankful for being attacked by a bunch of cowardly terrorists.

As well as Brexiting maybe it is time to grow up a bit?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Some of the provo admirers on here would think she should have been murdered or even thankful for being attacked by a bunch of cowardly terrorists.

As well as Brexiting maybe it is time to grow up a bit?

You are obsessed with Brexit, one has to say why? Surely you know it is going to happen and nothing can stop it now. I actually question why we have such big arguments on this thread on something which is already set in stone.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

You are obsessed with Brexit, one has to say why? Surely you know it is going to happen and nothing can stop it now. I actually question why we have such big arguments on this thread on something which is already set in stone.

Obsessed you say?
I know it is going to happen, it is how it happens that we are discussing. You and the other Unionists seem sure all is rosy in the garden and the deluded leaders of Unionism seem to think that the NI is in rude good economic health judging by the latest huff from Arlene when somebody mentioned it was a basket case economy.
Would you agree with her on that?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You are obsessed with Brexit, one has to say why? Surely you know it is going to happen and nothing can stop it now. I actually question why we have such big arguments on this thread on something which is already set in stone.

Obsessed you say?
I know it is going to happen, it is how it happens that we are discussing. You and the other Unionists seem sure all is rosy in the garden and the deluded leaders of Union seem to think that the NI is in rude good economic health judging by the latest huff from Arlene when somebody mentioned it was a basket case economy.
Would you agree with her on that?

Article 50 will be triggered early next year, I would assume we will be leaving the Single market, as Osbourne and Cameron and all the remain side said would happen if we voted leave. Funny how some are desperately trying to change that narrative.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Article 50 will be triggered early next year, I would assume we will be leaving the Single market, as Osbourne and Cameron and all the remain side said would happen if we voted leave. Funny how some are desperately trying to change that narrative.

I asked you a specific question, should a Unionist leader be getting huffy about others telling the truth about the NI economy?

Calina

A Little Pony wrote: »

You are obsessed with Brexit, one has to say why? Surely you know it is going to happen and nothing can stop it now. I actually question why we have such big arguments on this thread on something which is already set in stone.

This thread is supposed to be about Brexit. The form of Brexit appears to be unclear.

I question the convoluted discussions on NI and past history there. It's to the future we need to look.

catbear

lightspeed wrote: »

what will be most interesting is what happens if Scotland leave and are all the better for it?

Id imagine the British government would be so stunned and embarrassed that they will pump more money into northern Ireland to desperately convince the people that they are better in the UK than out.

However, hard to imagine that approach would be sustainable if the economy suffers more in mainland Britain.

We are already seeing huge retail price increases due to fall of sterling and a lot of companies worried and expressing thoughts of leaving the UK. The current british government refused to say what assurances they gave to Nissan to commit to stay in Britain after Brexit. Whatever they were, it must be costing a good heap of money from British exchequer.

Also I read that Wales receives a whole lot of funding from EU which will now vanish. Will the British government be able to pump enough money into Wales to prevent them from voicing thoughts of leaving down the line?


The reality is though that the unionists will never accept the outcome of a NI referendum if the result was to leave the UK and join the republic. There would be some terrorist activity in short term.

From the unionist point of view, clearly the good friday agreement was signed on the basis that we can have peace if we let the silly paddys have their fantasies of a united ireland with no intention of ever allowing it to be a real possibility.

Having said that, I cant understand why Sinn Fein were opposed to Brexit? I thought that unionists supported it so we would not face this exact situation were the break up of UK would be in the peoples mindset. Surely Brexit is good for Sinn Fein desire for United Ireland if it could lead to people thinking they need to get out of UK.

Very good perspective.

My own take is that the next year or so will see the economic consequences filtering through to the street, increased import costs, holding an orange march in Benidorm will be harder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0cgmEcxUIA) etc..
The UK is on course to blow the crap out of their currency to save their union but that won't suspend a drop in living standards. The best course I believe is to promote businesses to set up close to the border to avail of the work force with republic EU passports in the north.

Money talks, bull**** walks.

FrancieBrady

Now Arlene is berating the South to stop 'poaching NI jobs'.
What did she think was going to happen?

Any fool would know that was going to happen if you leave the EU. And any fool knows what NI's intention was when it was pleading for the same Corporation Tax rate as the south.

Is she a fool or fantasist or is she intent on trying to take attention away from her fabulous faux pas by ramping up the bigoted hate speak??

LordSutch

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now Arlene is berating the South to stop 'poaching NI jobs'.
What did she think was going to happen?

Any fool would know that was going to happen if you leave the EU. And any fool knows what NI's intention was when it was pleading for the same Corporation Tax rate as the south.

Is she a fool or fantasist or is she intent on trying to take attention away from her fabulous faux pas by ramping up the bigoted hate speak??

Sounds to me like she's a strong leader on the winning side of the referendum who doesn't like NI jobs being poached by the ROI. She's Pro-Brexit and she wants (needs) Brexit to work . . .

Not sure she came out with any 'hate speak' though?

A Little Pony

LordSutch wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now Arlene is berating the South to stop 'poaching NI jobs'.
What did she think was going to happen?

Any fool would know that was going to happen if you leave the EU. And any fool knows what NI's intention was when it was pleading for the same Corporation Tax rate as the south.

Is she a fool or fantasist or is she intent on trying to take attention away from her fabulous faux pas by ramping up the bigoted hate speak??

Sounds to me like she's a strong leader on the winning side of the referendum who doesn't like NI jobs being poached by the ROI. She's Pro-Brexit and she wants (needs) Brexit to work . . .

Not sure she came out with any 'hate speak' though?

Let him ramble on with his Unionist hate.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Let him ramble on with his Unionist hate.

I think Arlene's the person for unionist hate TBF.

catbear

Arlene doesn't hate who she doesn't consider human. Its the condescending imperial British mentality of superiority that deems the EU a failure because its not ruled by them.

FrancieBrady

LordSutch wrote: »

Sounds to me like she's a strong leader on the winning side of the referendum who doesn't like NI jobs being poached by the ROI. She's Pro-Brexit and she wants (needs) Brexit to work . . .

Not sure she came out with any 'hate speak' though?

Competing with NI for business has always happened. It was why NI wanted the same corporation tax rate, to compete/take business from the south. It is a simple reality, to start complaining about it now is just playing to a gallery and a pathetic attempt to make her mess (Brexit) about something else.
Attack the south and it politicians over stuff that has always happened=hate speech IMO.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Competing with NI for business has always happened. It was why NI wanted the same corporation tax rate, to compete/take business from the south. It is a simple reality, to start complaining about it now is just playing to a gallery and a pathetic attempt to make her mess (Brexit) about something else.
Attack the south and it politicians over stuff that has always happened=hate speech IMO.

Let alone her bigoted views against gays.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Let alone her bigoted views against gays.

The most social!ly regressive party on the island. Goes without saying.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The most social!ly regressive party on the island. Goes without saying.

I get unionism but I don't get their views on gays or Muslims ect.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dialogue is progressive.
Ignorant comments based on your bigotry are regressive.
Isolating yourself because of that stupid bigotry is regressive.

Can I be any clearer?

So imagine the British PM asserted the idea that Ireland could rejoin the United Kingdom and subsequently invited Kenny to a conference chaired by the British to synergize foreign policy.

Would he attend? Of course not and it wouldn't make him a regressive either. To apply different standards to Irish and British nationalists is unrealistic.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So imagine the British PM asserted the idea that Ireland could rejoin the United Kingdom and subsequently invited Kenny to a conference chaired by the British to synergize foreign policy.

Would he attend? Of course not and it wouldn't make him a regressive either. To apply different standards to Irish and British nationalists is unrealistic.

The British do not and have not aspired to reunion with Ireland. Ridiculous analogy and the forum was not about reunion. From invites to 1916 events to this the woman's only intention is to play to the bigot gallery and attempt to enflame.
Getting huffy about something everyone knows is an Irish aspiration is juvenile at best and bigoted hate speech at worst.
She doesn't want any focus on her disastrous political choice.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The British do not and have not aspired to reunion with Ireland. Ridiculous analogy and the forum was not about reunion. From invites to 1916 events to this the woman's only intention is to play to the bigot gallery and attempt to enflame.
Getting huffy about something everyone knows is an Irish aspiration is juvenile at best and bigoted hate speech at worst.
She doesn't want any focus on her disastrous political choice.

It wasn't about reunion, it was a forum to synergize a piece of foreign policy, just like my analogy.

Now can you answer please.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It wasn't about reunion, it was a forum to synergize a piece of foreign policy, just like my analogy.

Now can you answer please.

Answer what? Would The Taoiseach attend a forum looking at ways to minimise the effects of something that effects both of us...of course he would.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Answer what? Would The Taoiseach attend a forum looking at ways to minimise the effects of something that effects both of us...of course he would.

"So imagine the British PM asserted the idea that Ireland could rejoin the United Kingdom and subsequently invited Kenny to a conference chaired by the British to synergize foreign policy.

Would he attend? "

enzo roco

Is it just me or is the mod that changes this thread's name everyday very very unfunny??? Such a wreck the head.

Please stop trying to be a comedian, you are failing. Thanks.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

"So imagine the British PM asserted the idea that Ireland could rejoin the United Kingdom and subsequently invited Kenny to a conference chaired by the British to synergize foreign policy.

Would he attend? "

Nonsense analogy. Why would he attend a conference about British foreign policy.

The conference Arlene refused to attend was about two jurisdictions on the one island finding ways to minimise/or take advantage of an event that is going to effect in some way.

There was NO threat to the sovereignty of either jurisdiction.

catbear

enzo roco wrote: »

Is it just me or is the mod that changes this thread's name everyday very very unfunny??? Such a wreck the head.

Please stop trying to be a comedian, you are failing. Thanks.

Another prick enters.

enzo roco

catbear wrote: »

Another prick enters.

Ha, Sorry to upset you. Stop crying ffs.

Fuzzytrooper

enzo roco wrote: »

Is it just me or is the mod that changes this thread's name everyday very very unfunny??? Such a wreck the head.

Please stop trying to be a comedian, you are failing. Thanks.

Boo. The title changes cheesy as they may be are what AH should be. Now if I could only find my Atari Jaguar...

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nonsense analogy. Why would he attend a conference about British foreign policy.

The conference Arlene refused to attend was about two jurisdictions on the one island finding ways to minimise/or take advantage of an event that is going to effect in some way.

There was NO threat to the sovereignty of either jurisdiction.

In my hypothetical conference there is no direct threat to sovereignty either. Just a forum to synergize a piece of foreign policy after the British PM raised the possibility of Ireland rejoining the UK.

No harm in dialogue right? It would be bigoted to refuse dialogue after all.

Iwasfrozen

enzo roco wrote: »

Is it just me or is the mod that changes this thread's name everyday very very unfunny??? Such a wreck the head.

Please stop trying to be a comedian, you are failing. Thanks.

Actually I found today's quite good.

Pay no heed to the haters mod. You be you!