Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

maryishere

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

and Japanese businesses have been advised to suspend investment in the UK until the smoke clears.

lol. Is that the lad, Kenichi Ohmae, who is also advising Apple?

Larbre34

Carlos Ghosn is no fool, any deal MUST entail tariff and barrier free market access, there is simply no other interpretation. No point giving them straight money as it would seen as protectionism and ruled out of any post Brexit trade deal with the EU. The only thing May can promise is continued market access, its her only card, and with it she will be accused of betrayal and backsliding.

Junkyard Tom

maryishere wrote: »

lol. Is that the lad, Kenichi Ohmae, who is also advising Apple?

LOL. I don't know. Do your own research and/or make your point. LOL.

Capt'n Midnight

LordSutch wrote: »

Whatever deal May made, its saved thousands of jobs, because it seems the Japanese car manucacturer was tempted to leave the UK (if Brexit went ahead). TM has now cut a deal of some kind to buffer them from any brexit fall out, but what is the Nissan deal? - that's what everybody would like to know.

Once upon a time British Aerospace needed money but the govt couldn't just hand them the money. So they gave them the Rover car company instead. And sold it as soon as they were allowed. And not to Honda. The whole episode is something Nissan probably haven't forgotten.

From 1994
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/how-honda-let-rover-go-to-strangers-belief-in-its-partners-independence-was-only-one-reason-that-the-1392300.html

road_high

This Nissan "deal" is being spun as some kind of positive...all it appears to me is a potential to hold the status quo into the medium term. They haven't decided to build a second factory or some kind of massive endorsement of Rule Brittania outside the EU. Be sane as Apple saying they're not leaving Ireland.

FrancieBrady

road_high wrote: »

This Nissan "deal" is being spun as some kind of positive...all it appears to me is a potential to hold the status quo into the medium term. They haven't decided to build a second factory or some kind of massive endorsement of Rule Brittania outside the EU. Be sane as Apple saying they're not leaving Ireland.

Implicit in what they say is that they will leave if the environment is not able to keep them competitive.
High stakes for Sunderland and the UK

daithijjj

road_high wrote: »

This Nissan "deal" is being spun as some kind of positive...all it appears to me is a potential to hold the status quo into the medium term. They haven't decided to build a second factory or some kind of massive endorsement of Rule Brittania outside the EU. Be sane as Apple saying they're not leaving Ireland.

They dont seem to be leaving the UK either, having just announced a lease of 500,000 sq feet near Heathrow which will open in 2021.

Capt'n Midnight

The problem with any Nissan deal is all the other potentially affected groups will want a deal too. It's like the Luas/Bus/Nurses/Guards and we all know the rest of the Civil Service are waiting their turn.


Leaving the EU isn't the only way to reduce immigration. So why get rid of the baby as well as the bathwater ?
https://www.ft.com/content/cd0d2ad4-9d23-11e6-a6e4-8b8e77dd083a

But there is a lot she could do to reduce immigration within the single market. EU member states are not allowed to discriminate against other EU nationals on the basis of nationality but they are allowed to discriminate on the basis of residence — which amounts to the same for practical purposes. The government could impose a five-year minimum residency requirement for access to the National Health Service, to welfare benefits, even income tax breaks. This would get the job done. It would constitute a big cut in the disposable income of low-wage immigrants, in particular.

ambro25

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the poppy is pretty well recognised internationally.

So are Benny Hill, Marmite and double deckers :pac:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what's the union jack got to do with any of this, no one wants to put that on their shirt.

You asked whether a flag is a political symbol. A country's flag isn't, when adorning that country's team kit. It is an identifier, protected as such by international law and protocol (e.g. to the extent that FIFA cannot prevent its use by that country's team).

The poppy is not a flag, nor a protected emblem, it does not enjoy any sort of equivalent protection or formal recognition internationally. It's an arbitrary symbol chosen/adopted by a few private US, Canadian and British organisations. All nicely fluffy and patriotic and special as it may be and make Brits feel on/around mid-November. Personally, I prefer to take a couple hours out of my schedule and attend a remembrance event at a memorial nearby on the day, rather than "pay and display".

FIFA makes the rules, including the "no political symbology on kit" rule, collaboratively with the national FAs of its members, who all wilfully consent to FIFA's enforcement role and the required degree of interpretation of the said rules inherent that role: FIFA is perfectly entitled to consider the poppy in breach of the said rules. The end.

The UK will eventually get the message that no, it's not special and no, the world and its dog does not owe it a living with bells and cushions. May's opportunistic and self-serving rethoric notwithstanding.

In the meantime, as I see that the national British, Scottish (and perhaps also Welsh) FAs are looking to run the poppy kit and defy FIFA, perhaps they'd be better off making a donation to the British Legion, rather than spending legal advice money and dropping fine money into FIFA's coffers. Perhaps think on that.

Next storm in a teacup?

road_high

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Implicit in what they say is that they will leave if the environment is not able to keep them competitive.
High stakes for Sunderland and the UK

France, Spain and Eastern Europe will be champing at the bit for it in the meantime...

Capt'n Midnight

Nissan Brexit Deal Prompts Others to Draft ‘Dear Theresa’ Notes
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-03/nissan-brexit-deal-prompts-others-to-draft-dear-theresa-notes

From farmers to pharma, industry groups weigh in with demands
Access to EU single market, labor, research funding top lists

If you sent a letter to Santy now, you'd get a reply this side of Christmas.


they could even visit Father Christmas next month. But Lapland is in the EU.

Fratton Fred

ambro25 wrote: »

So are Benny Hill, Marmite and double deckers :pac:
You asked whether a flag is a political symbol. A country's flag isn't, when adorning that country's team kit. It is an identifier, protected as such by international law and protocol (e.g. to the extent that FIFA cannot prevent its use by that country's team).

The poppy is not a flag, nor a protected emblem, it does not enjoy any sort of equivalent protection or formal recognition internationally. It's an arbitrary symbol chosen/adopted by a few private US, Canadian and British organisations. All nicely fluffy and patriotic and special as it may be and make Brits feel on/around mid-November. Personally, I prefer to take a couple hours out of my schedule and attend a remembrance event at a memorial nearby on the day, rather than "pay and display".

FIFA makes the rules, including the "no political symbology on kit" rule, collaboratively with the national FAs of its members, who all wilfully consent to FIFA's enforcement role and the required degree of interpretation of the said rules inherent that role: FIFA is perfectly entitled to consider the poppy in breach of the said rules. The end.

The UK will eventually get the message that no, it's not special and no, the world and its dog does not owe it a living with bells and cushions. May's opportunistic and self-serving rethoric notwithstanding.

In the meantime, as I see that the national British, Scottish (and perhaps also Welsh) FAs are looking to run the poppy kit and defy FIFA

I've never heard of the British FA, who are they?

What's your opinion on this http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/irelands-1916-centenary-jersey-brought-poppy-controversy-debate-british-mp/101422

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've never heard of the British FA, who are they?

What's your opinion on this http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/irelands-1916-centenary-jersey-brought-poppy-controversy-debate-british-mp/101422

You didn't ask me but I think ban or allow both.

ambro25

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've never heard of the British FA, who are they?

I won't dignify that with a reply. It's quite clearly beneath you.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What's your opinion on this http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/irelands-1916-centenary-jersey-brought-poppy-controversy-debate-british-mp/101422

My opinion is that the Brits are continuing to prove to the world that they are too big for their boots, throwing a mini-fit because they're not having their poppy cake and eating it, rather than be smart about it and regain the moral high ground; and that their current political class knows no limit to indecency, with plumbing uncharted depths of cheap populism.

So the next couple of years are going to be much more enjoyable than anticipated :pac:

whatstherush

maryishere wrote: »

Too true, the British govt has squandered its money over the decades giving £48k per year to large migrant families on supports (no wonder there is a queue at Calais), billions to greek farmers and even the odd £8,000,000,000 to Taoiseach Albert Reynolds when he arrived with the begging bowl at an EC meeting in Edinburgh in 1992.

Mary I know Alberts 8 Billion has left an indelible mark on your psyche, but lets have a look a some figures that might help you put this particular trauma to bed.

In 1992 Ireland roughly imported and exported the same value of good to the UK 8.8B import Vs 8.1B export A net gain for the UK of .7B in terms of balance of trade.

By 2002 those figures had shifted to 17.2B imports vs 13.4B exports resulting in a net gain of 3.8B to the UK.

As of 2014 its 24.3B Vs 19.2B, with again a net gain 5.1B for the UK.

So instead of seeing everything as a zero sum game and the UK having "squandered" what ever percentage of the 8 Billion they provided Ireland, it has been a very healthy and ever increasing return on investment for the UK. Maybe it was John Major laughing all the way home!

catbear

Isn't it really disrespectful to even politicize a war memorial symbol?

Oh, Boris said something about brexit being a Titanic success. He really should do comedy.

FrancieBrady

Has the saviour appeared

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/03/parliament-must-trigger-brexit-high-court-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

recyclebin

Hey Britain, you didn't think you could leave that easily did you?

catbear

Election early next year?

Will May stick in full brexit mood, will corbyn emerge from the 1980s and discover the expectations of mass media? So many questions!

robindch

As FrancieBrady has pointed out, the UK's High Court has ruled that the current administration - which acquired power on the back of a promise concerning "parliamentary sovereignty" but which didn't want to give parliament a vote on triggering Article 50 - must now give a vote to parliament.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785

F*rage has taken the opportunity to talk up "betrayal" and limitless "public anger".

Fratton Fred

ambro25 wrote: »

I won't dignify that with a reply. It's quite clearly beneath you.
My opinion is that the Brits are continuing to prove to the world that they are too big for their boots, throwing a mini-fit because they're not having their poppy cake and eating it, rather than be smart about it and regain the moral high ground; and that their current political class knows no limit to indecency, with plumbing uncharted depths of cheap populism.

So the next couple of years are going to be much more enjoyable than anticipated :pac:

so you dodged the question then?

robindch

catbear wrote: »

[...] will corbyn emerge from the 1980s and discover the expectations of mass media?

No, he won't.

Corbyn is much more comfortable back in the days of Greenham Common when the world was simple and made of primary colors - corporate-USA/McDonalds bad and beer/sandwiches/anarchosyndicalism good.

FrancieBrady

robindch wrote: »

No, he won't.

Corbyn is much more comfortable back in the days of Greenham Common when the world was simple and made of primary colors - corporate-USA/McDonalds bad and beer/sandwiches/anarchosyndicalism good.

Is that not a bit of a media cliche, designed for those already predisposed to the cliche?

Fratton Fred

robindch wrote: »

No, he won't.

Corbyn is much more comfortable back in the days of Greenham Common when the world was simple and made of primary colors - corporate-USA/McDonalds bad and beer/sandwiches/anarchosyndicalism good.

he does seem to be Michael Foot re-born.

ambro25

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so you dodged the question then?

You asked for my opinion about a football kit issue, I gave it you.

Re. High Court judgement, good to see the Court remedying May's democratic deficit, with the rule of law and democratic due process prevailing.

I'm sure the pro-sovereignty and pro-democracy Brexit voters are cheering to the rafters. :pac:

beach_walker

catbear wrote: »

Election early next year?

If there is one (likely in my book), then Labour to lose seats, Lib Dems to gain and Tories to ride home with a bigger majority.

Maybe then Corbyn will stand aside and the Labour party will get a decent leader and be in a position to offer a decent alternative. For 2022

steddyeddy

I hope parliment rejects it.

FrancieBrady

beach_walker wrote: »

If there is one (likely in my book), then Labour to lose seats, Lib Dems to gain and Tories to ride home with a bigger majority.

Maybe then Corbyn will stand aside and the Labour party will get a decent leader and be in a position to offer a decent alternative. For 2022

Tories might pull themselves apart first.

Won't be a cut and dried election anyway.

ambro25

beach_walker wrote: »

If there is one (likely in my book), then Labour to lose seats, Lib Dems to gain and Tories to ride home with a bigger majority.

I'd have my doubts, after Witney.

steddyeddy

This will be interesting. A referendum was held in which one side won. I don't think the Tories would get away with ignoring it to be honest.