Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

The Rape of Lucretia

tomwaterford wrote: »

The British certainly don't give a sh1t about the north.....

Well, they do. They would like shut of it. It has been a pain in the ass for them for 100 years. A vote from NI to join Eire, a separate Scottish partnership Celtica, or an independent NI, would be a prayer answered for Westminster. While it is so unimportant to them, it is not really part of the bigger Brexit picture publicly, yet all London does know that it will become a serious headache when they get down to the nitty gritty practicalities of Brexit.
It may be a wait and see policy for a while, to see what germinates in NI itself, and how quickly Scotland moves

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh dear, where to start.
The forum is not about support for the EU, it is about the consequences of leaving it.
The people who thought that was a marvellous idea for NI won't be there to give us their plan to survive it.

And I think it isn't brain of 'Britain' territory to work out I was talking about people around the world who know of the DUP and NI. :rolleyes:

Then why not invite reps from the Tory and UKIP parties?

Capt'n Midnight

Grayson wrote: »

So the UK has told Nissan that they will fight to get access to the single market for cars

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/30/nissan-eu-tariff-free-brexit-sunderland.

Of course the UK said that, anything less and Nissan would be looking at sites in the tariff free area from Estonia to Turkey if they aren't already.

From that link

Nadhim Zahawi, a leading Brexit supporter and Conservative MP for Stratford-upon-Avon, wrote in the Mail on Sunday that paying a proportion of the UK’s annual £8.5bn would be worth it for favourable trading arrangements combined with freedom from the EU’s immigration rules and the jurisdiction of its courts.

It depends on the proportion. Given that they want more concessions than Norway shouldn't they pay more ?

https://infacts.org/norwegians-pay-same-brits-eu-access/

UK sent £12.9 billion to the EU last year. After subtracting the money the EU spends in the UK and money that the UK would spend anyway because of its commitment to global development targets, the UK’s net contribution to the EU comes to £96 per capita—by coincidence, exactly the same as our estimate for Norway.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then why not invite reps from the Tory and UKIP parties?

As I said before, why not indeed. It's a forum/exchange of ideas, not an invasion.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I said before, why not indeed. It's a forum/exchange of ideas, not an invasion.

Then do that and get back to Foster when they accept. An all Ireland forum is unrealistic and Kenny should know it.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then do that and get back to Foster when they accept. An all Ireland forum is unrealistic and Kenny should know it.

You'd think the DUP and Arlene would have learned that things will move on without them regardless of the bigoted tantrums.

catbear

The DUPs came now is backs to the Irish Sea. The economic case to allow Northern Ireland to cede from the Free State a century ago is in reverse now with the UK having more reason to ditch it.

LordSutch

tomwaterford wrote: »

The British certainly don't give a sh1t about the north.....they've no strategic interest there

Yet the majority of the population of NI are British, or Northern Irish/British, so talking about "The British" as if they were an external force is to misrepresent the majority of the population of NI.

Maybe you mean the British/Westminster Government?

A Dub in Glasgo

LordSutch wrote: »

Yet the majority of the population of NI are British, or Northern Irish/British, so talking about "The British" as if they were an external force is to misrepresent the majority of the population of NI.

I have not met many folk in my time in Britain over the last 25 years who call those from NI 'Northern Irish', they are simply referred to as 'Irish' or 'British' and mainly the former

LordSutch

You mean British or Irish ...

Either way, its the NI people who label themselves as British/N.Irish or irish . . .

catbear

LordSutch wrote: »

You mean British or Irish ...

Either way, its the NI people who label themselves as British/N.Irish or irish . . .

They can call themselves whatever they want but it wont change them from being called mick or paddy in britain.

prinzeugen

In my experience people from England, Wales & Scotland generally refer to people from NI as being from Ulster.

They don't say "Oh you are Irish/British" they say "Oh, you are from Ulster".

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

In my experience people from England, Wales & Scotland generally refer to people from NI as being from Ulster.

They don't say "Oh you are Irish/British" they say "Oh, you are from Ulster".

and I'm from Leinster

The Rape of Lucretia

prinzeugen wrote: »

In my experience people from England, Wales & Scotland generally refer to people from NI as being from Ulster.

They don't say "Oh you are Irish/British" they say "Oh, you are from Ulster".

Thats just a historical curio I think where people outside the island became use to hearing of the troubles of 'Ulster', which were also troubles of Donegal, Cavan, and Monaghan very frequently, Ulster Says No, etc.
So it is a go to term for those who have never thought too deeply about these details of terminology. And a perfectly reasonably term, in that sense.

What are the chances for an Independent Northern Ireland, as an EU member, but without taking the impossible step for unionists of joining the Eire ? Poorer, without the London financial contribution, but maybe richer being an EU member than London may be able to afford to keep contributing.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Thats just a historical curio I think where people outside the island became use to hearing of the troubles of 'Ulster', which were also troubles of Donegal, Cavan, and Monaghan very frequently, Ulster Says No, etc.
So it is a go to term for those who have never thought too deeply about these details of terminology. And a perfectly reasonably term, in that sense.

What are the chances for an Independent Northern Ireland, as an EU member, but without taking the impossible step for unionists of joining the Eire ? Poorer, without the London financial contribution, but maybe richer being an EU member than London may be able to afford to keep contributing.

Too fragile, without the agreement and intervention of 2 governments it would fall very quickly into conflict again.

A Little Pony

prinzeugen wrote: »

In my experience people from England, Wales & Scotland generally refer to people from NI as being from Ulster.

They don't say "Oh you are Irish/British" they say "Oh, you are from Ulster".

My experience too when speaking to English folk, Ulster is the greatest place on earth.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

My experience too when speaking to English folk, Ulster is the greatest place on earth.

Ulster is an Irish province. Why do you persist in using 'Ulster' to describe the northeast of Ireland?

steddyeddy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I have not met many folk in my time in Britain over the last 25 years who call those from NI 'Northern Irish', they are simply referred to as 'Irish' or 'British' and mainly the former

The unionists on Boards are unlike anything I've met in Britain. To give people in Northern Ireland the option of being British or Northern Irish is indicative of a deep bitterness.

steddyeddy

prinzeugen wrote: »

In my experience people from England, Wales & Scotland generally refer to people from NI as being from Ulster.

They don't say "Oh you are Irish/British" they say "Oh, you are from Ulster".

I'm calling BS on that. Haven't met much (zero) people here who call it Ulster.

Muahahaha

I dunno who keeps changing the thread title but this latest one got the biggest laugh from me yet !

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

My experience too when speaking to English folk, Ulster is the greatest place on earth.

Ulster is an Irish province. Why do you persist in using 'Ulster' to describe the northeast of Ireland?

I'll do what I want.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

I'll do what I want.

If you wore plastic hooves and a mane it would also be doing what you want but it wouldn't mean you're a Pony.

D'ya understand?

prinzeugen

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm calling BS on that. Haven't met much (zero) people here who call it Ulster.

You need to get out more then.. Or maybe watch a bit telly.. Referred to as such on the BBC and ITV on a regular basis..

But I bet you don't watch either as that would not be a nationalist thing to do..

steddyeddy

prinzeugen wrote: »

You need to get out more then.. Or maybe watch a bit telly.. Referred to as such on the BBC and ITV on a regular basis..

But I bet you don't watch either as that would not be a nationalist thing to do..

I live in England mate.

Junkyard Tom

prinzeugen wrote: »

But I bet you don't watch either as that would not be a nationalist thing to do..

What a ridiculous ill-informed statement. The BBC is one of the world's finest television services and it's beamed across the island, why wouldn't a nationalist watch it?

What bizarre caricature have you created in your mind?

prinzeugen

steddyeddy wrote: »

I live in England mate.

Will you should be aware of people referring to NI as Ulster then. Mate.

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

Will you should be aware of people referring to NI as Ulster then. Mate.

I lived in England for 3 years (early '90s) and never heard anyone refer to people from NI as being from Ulster! They were either Irish (normally) or British (not very often)

prinzeugen

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What a ridiculous ill-informed statement. The BBC is one of the world's finest television services and it's beamed across the island, why wouldn't a nationalist watch it?

What bizarre caricature have you created in your mind?

Really?? Anyone just has to look back at the posts on britex / Scottish referendum to see what you and the people that thanked your post think of "the Brits" and the BBC.

Junkyard Tom

prinzeugen wrote: »

Really?? Anyone just has to look back at the posts on britex / Scottish referendum to see what you and the people that thanked your post think of "the Brits" and the BBC.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm ambivalent on Scottish Independence and hope Brexit works out well for the people of Britain.

It's you who needs to get out more.

steddyeddy

prinzeugen wrote: »

Will you should be aware of people referring to NI as Ulster then. Mate.

Well if I hear it I'll tell you.