Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

maryishere

Jimoslimos wrote: »

The RBL poppy appeal raises money to support members of the Armed Forces injured in conflict (including ongoing ones) - one could easily argue that should be the government's role. If politicians had any sense of decency they'd be embarrassed even wearing one.

Too true, the British govt has squandered its money over the decades giving £48k per year to large migrant families on supports (no wonder there is a queue at Calais), billions to greek farmers and even the odd £8,000,000,000 to Taoiseach Albert Reynolds when he arrived with the begging bowl at an EC meeting in Edinburgh in 1992.

Fratton Fred

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Resounding support doesn't mean she was right or that she wasn't using it in a cynical way (I mean who is going to dissent openly in Parliament against poppies).

The correct response would have been to briefly state her disappointment but respect the regulations of the international governing body for the sport. Instead she launched into a bizarre ad hominem attack on FIFA and actually proved the point that the red poppy is a political symbol.

I wonder what the reaction would be if FIFA offered a compromise, a recognition of those who died* in WW1 (perhaps something as simple as the date of Armistice Day) but not the poppy - would the SFA and FA be so keen to embrace it.

*Everybody - soldiers and civilians from all sides.

Do FIFA get to decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

Are flags political symbols?

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do FIFA get to decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

Yes, they do. Remember we are constantly told Politics and Sport do not mix

ambro25

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do FIFA get to decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

Its rules and jurisdiction, so yes, it does.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are flags political symbols?

The poppy is not an internationally recognised and protected national emblem. The Union Jack is.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes, they do. Remember we are constantly told Politics and Sport do not mix

So FIFA can arbitrarily decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

So you are fine with them fining Celtic for their fans for displaying the Palestinian flag?

A Dub in Glasgo

Clucking Bell!

https://twitter.com/showcasemassive/status/772785869044477953

Fratton Fred

ambro25 wrote: »

Its rules and jurisdiction, so yes, it does.
The poppy is not an internationally recognised and protected national emblem. The Union Jack is.

the poppy is pretty well recognised internationally.

is the emblem worn on the Irish shirts commemorating the 1916 uprising a protected national emblem?

what's the union jack got to do with any of this, no one wants to put that on their shirt.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So FIFA can arbitrarily decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

Yes, they can

So you are fine with them fining Celtic for their fans for displaying the Palestinian flag?

For consistancy purposes, Yes

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/showcasemassive/status/772785869044477953

your point?

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

your point?

Maybe the teams can wear actual British shell fuses from the massacre to show they do not forget

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Maybe the teams can wear actual British shell fuses from the massacre to show they do not forget

yeah, right.

come back when you're sober.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the poppy is pretty well recognised internationally.

is the emblem worn on the Irish shirts commemorating the 1916 uprising a protected national emblem?

what's the union jack got to do with any of this, no one wants to put that on their shirt.

The poppy is becoming a glorification of war particularly when exploited by politicians and media elements.
It no longer has a place in sport.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yeah, right.

come back when you're sober.

In the words of Justin Currie 'Stone Cold Sober'

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The poppy is becoming a glorification of war particularly when exploited by politicians and media elements.
It no longer has a place in sport.

In your opinion. Millions would disagree.

Junkyard Tom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

is the emblem worn on the Irish shirts commemorating the 1916 uprising a protected national emblem?

What emblem and where does it mention the uprising?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

your point?

Poppies emblems made out of the armaments from the battle of the Somme? The whole poppy thing has gone beyond ridiculous Fred - surely you can see that?

Nate--IRL--

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

...... - surely you can see that?

Not when there's a golden opportunity to derail the tread he doesn't

Nate

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In your opinion. Millions would disagree.

The UK pm just proved the point. The millions would be wrong as millions have been before.

Peregrine

Poppies? Lillies? WTF?

Get back on topic please and thanks.

Mod

LordSutch

NISSAN UK...

What exactly is the deal?

tomwaterford

LordSutch wrote: »

NISSAN UK...

What exactly is the deal?

They make **** cars?

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So FIFA can arbitrarily decide what is and isn't a political symbol?

So you are fine with them fining Celtic for their fans for displaying the Palestinian flag?

I am! Leave the inflammatory behaviour out of sport.

LordSutch

tomwaterford wrote: »

They make **** cars?

Well done Tom, that's right, they make **** cars. Now expany your brain a little more to encompass any thoughts on the 'deal' that the TM has done with them (to stay in Sunderland) post Brexit.

maryishere

LordSutch wrote: »

NISSAN UK...

What exactly is the deal?

I think they announced a new car model / extra expansion in the years ahead at their English factory.

LordSutch

Whatever deal May made, its saved thousands of jobs, because it seems the Japanese car manucacturer was tempted to leave the UK (if Brexit went ahead). TM has now cut a deal of some kind to buffer them from any brexit fall out, but what is the Nissan deal? - that's what everybody would like to know.

FrancieBrady

LordSutch wrote: »

NISSAN UK...

What exactly is the deal?

The value of that statement from Nissan (I hear talk of a 'signed deal' but have seen nothing only '....if certain things happen...)is so great to a soon to be negotiating UK that I suspect there is more to it. Far to early to be able to make commitments of that nature

LordSutch

We are told that no financial sweetner was given to Nissan, so I wonder just what bribes/assurances were given? it seems to be difficult to find out what exactly was offered to Niassan to keep them on board.

Anita Blow

LordSutch wrote: »

Whatever deal May made, its saved thousands of jobs, because it seems the Japanese car manucacturer was tempted to leave the UK (if Brexit went ahead). TM has now cut a deal of some kind to buffer them from any brexit fall out, but what is the Nissan deal? - that's what everybody would like to know.

She can't say because she will then have every other car manufacturer and industry lining up for a similar deal and potentially holding the UK government to ransom.
Politically could be a good move in terms of restoring confidence that the UK is willing to step in for major industries. The gesture alone may be enough to settle the nerves of big businesses.
But realistically it shows that the UK has a weak hand if it's having to make such deals.

Larbre34

Nissan deal = desperation. Personally i hoped they would let Nissan leave, the ructions would stop Brexit dead forever. Reality will eventually dawn in England, but probably not yet.

Junkyard Tom

LordSutch wrote: »

TM has now cut a deal of some kind to buffer them from any brexit fall out.

I wonder what all the fiscally conservative Brexiters would think of government interfering in the 'free' market. Also, what kind of precedent does it set if a foreign owned corporation can extract a ransom from the British government?

Regardless, Japanese manufacturers have already had offers from countries within the EU and Japanese businesses have been advised to suspend investment in the UK until the smoke clears.

FrancieBrady

LordSutch wrote: »

We are told that no financial sweetner was given to Nissan, so I wonder just what bribes/assurances were given? it seems to be difficult to find out what exactly was offered to Niassan to keep them on board.

As far as I can see/read all Nissan have said / committed to is based on 'the UK government making sure the Sunderland plant remains competitive'.

That's a lifeline but there is a downside/implied result if they can't make it competitive.