Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Only in the geographic sense. In a purely geographic sense they were also born in the wait for it.. "British Isles"

Ohhhhhhhh... Scarier than 12 Halloweens.

So you don't people born in ireland should have a irish passport??


#Brexitlogic

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That would be interfering in another country's democractic process.

Northern Ireland isn't a country though

Isn't even a complete province

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

So you don't people born in ireland should have a irish passport??


#Brexitlogic

I doubt that's a genuine question.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Arlene isn't pro isolationist. On the contrary she's a unionist.

By mentioning the prospect of unification before the all Ireland congress Kenny doomed it from the start. Even if she had been amicable to the idea (which I highly doubt) his negligence would have forced her to refuse.

She has isolated herself and her party from everyone else on this island = isolationist.

She needs to get over political parties in the south who have enshrined in their policy a united Ireland since partition, mentioning reunification.
It's a crutch she uses to play to the rabble, and when she has so fooked up, she doesn't know what else to do. She is floundering politically, attacking all and sundry

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

Northern Ireland isn't a country though

Isn't even a complete province

NI didn't have a vote.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I doubt that's a genuine question.

Why are you going about pointing out the obvious that people born in ireland are entitled to an Irish passport??



!any more obvious facts you wish to point out??

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She has isolated herself and her party from everyone else on this island = isolationist.

She needs to get over political parties in the south who have enshrined in their policy a united Ireland since partition, mentioning reunification.
It's a crutch she uses to play to the rabble, and when she has so fooked up, she doesn't know what else to do. She is floundering politically, attacking all and sundry

Ireland isn't the world and no she really doesn't need to "get over" a UI anymore than SF have to get over it.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland isn't the world and no she really doesn't need to "get over" a UI anymore than SF have to get over it.

She just has to get used to it....after the next election in the south she'll be gone


As it'll suit SF to make her position politically untenable then...and tbf....she takes the bait easier than anyone else


They've successfully destroyed all leader of unionism so far?trimble,Paisley,Robinson (lol it was magic seeing him walk into a position he had to resigj)....but for now foster suits SF politically to have her there until the next southern elections


**so the conspiracy geos :P

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

She just has to get used to it....after the next election in the south she'll be gone


As it'll suit SF to make her position politically untenable then...and tbf....she takes the bait easier than anyone else


They've successfully destroyed all leader of unionism so far?trimble,Paisley,Robinson (lol it was magic seeing him walk into a position he had to resigj)....but for now foster suits SF politically to have her there until the next southern elections


**so the conspiracy geos :P

I think you credit SF with far too much competence. (or intelligence)

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland isn't the world and no she really doesn't need to "get over" a UI anymore than SF have to get over it.

She is a bigoted reactionary, and trying to regress NI to a time when her sectarian politics had a function. The DUP are world renowned for living in the dark ages attempting to get people to live to her religious dogma.

I suppose you dont support her either...but? :rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She is a bigoted reactionary, and trying to regress NI to a time when her sectarian politics had a function. The DUP are world renowned for living in the dark ages attempting to get people to live to her religious dogma.

I suppose you dont support her either...but? :rolleyes:

I support NI staying in the UK, that much is obvious though I disagree with the DUP on most social issues.

It would be nice to see a large socially progressive unionist party in NI which represents the ideals of modern Britain.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I think you credit SF with far too much competence. (or intelligence)

Hmm.....what have I said is wrong

What political leaders of unionism hasnt been out maneuvered by them since the GFA?

Do you think she'll be in a leadership capacity in 2022??
Or failing that circa 18 months after the next election?
Do you not think she's so silly that a situation to make her position untenable will arise/be engineered

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I support NI staying in the UK, that much is obvious though I disagree with the DUP on most social issues.

It would be nice to see a large socially progressive unionist party in NI which represents the ideals of modern Britain.

Well the woman and party you are trenchantly defending took massive steps backwards on a few occasions this week alone.
The social community doesn't stop or ever recognised a border.

Instead of defending her why not be a socially modern unionist and dissociate yourself from bigotry.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well the woman and party you are trenchantly defending took massive steps backwards on a few occasions this week alone.
The social community doesn't stop or ever recognised a border.

Instead of defending her why not be a socially modern unionist and dissociate yourself from bigotry.

Refusing to attend the all Ireland conference was the right thing imo, especially after Kenny's comments about UI being on the table during Brexit negotiations an attendance to his event would have been a tactile acceptance of Kenny's comments and a UI always has to be a red line issue.

Her attack on the equality commission's decision regarding the Christian bakery however I found totally off putting.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Refusing to attend the all Ireland conference was the right thing imo, especially after Kenny's comments about UI being on the table during Brexit negotiations an attendance to his event would have been a tactile acceptance of Kenny's comments and a UI always has to be a red line issue.

Her attack on the equality commission's decision regarding the Christian bakery however I found totally off putting.

Why is it a red line issue. Others are talking about it and there was no suggestion that it was to be discussed at the forum. What is regressive unionism so afraid off? If they believe in the union, argue for it, beat the UI debate.

But no, we get the rabble rousing fingers in the ear. Supported by your good self.
The DUP also clarified their position on SSM this week too.

Strange bedfellows for somebody describing themselves as socially progressive, but hey ho.

tomwaterford

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is it a red line issue. Others are talking about it and there was no suggestion that it was to be discussed at the forum. What is regressive unionism so afraid off? If they believe in the union, argue for it, beat the UI debate.

But no, we get the rabble rousing fingers in the ear. Supported by your good self.
The DUP also clarified their position on SSM this week too.

Strange bedfellows for somebody describing themselves as socially progressive, but hey ho.

This is because brexit has hit the traditional unionist economic areguement below the waterline and the old conservative type areguemevt around religion etc are unwanted in the 21st century

So there argument now amounts to.....it was always this way lalalala...
There is no social,economic,political standing for their position anymore.....just traditional.....which will be shunned by younger generations

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is it a red line issue. Others are talking about it and there was no suggestion that it was to be discussed at the forum. What is regressive unionism so afraid off? If they believe in the union, argue for it, beat the UI debate.

But no, we get the rabble rousing fingers in the ear. Supported by your good self.
The DUP also clarified their position on SSM this week too.

Strange bedfellows for somebody describing themselves as socially progressive, but hey ho.

As I've said before on this thread, even is Foster was amicable to the conference (and I doubt it) Enda's comments made it impossible for her to go as attendance to his congress would have been seen as implicit support of his notion that a UI be on the table during Brexit negotions.

Why must it be a red line issue? You may as well ask why must it be a red line issue for nationalists also.

There's nothing inherently progressive or regressive about unionism or nationalism. An individuals stance on social issues describes their position on that spectrum and Arlene is too conservative for my tastes.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As I've said before on this thread, even is Foster was amicable to the conference (and I doubt it) Enda's comments made it impossible for her to go as attendance to his congress would have been seen as implicit support of his notion that a UI be on the table during Brexit negotions.

Why must it be a red line issue? You may as well ask why must it be a red line issue for nationalists also.

Because a million and half irish people are trapped there now??


Do you expect nationlists to ignore themy....given what happened 1922-troubles

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

Because a million and half irish people are trapped there now??


Do you expect nationlists to ignore themy....given what happened 1922-troubles

The Irish government abandoned them for decades.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The Irish government abandoned them for decades.

Which won't be allowed happen again....no matter how much silly foster wants it to



Imagine how they'd be treated if she had her way?

Junkyard Tom

The DUP are wonderful. They really show Nationalists that they despise their nationality, culture, and heritage, and that there is no reasoning with unionists like them.

They have set up the future of the north as a zero-sum-game and one which they're destined to lose. Keep up the good work selling your young people down the river by helping them focus on their anti-culture.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As I've said before on this thread, even is Foster was amicable to the conference (and I doubt it) Enda's comments made it impossible for her to go as attendance to his congress would have been seen as implicit support of his notion that a UI be on the table during Brexit negotions.

Why must it be a red line issue? You may as well ask why must it be a red line issue for nationalists also.

There's nothing inherently progressive or regressive about unionism or nationalism. An individuals stance on social issues describes their position on that spectrum and Arlene is too conservative for my tastes.

Nationalists have agreed to get on with things, they don't pull juvenile strops when somebody mentions the UK or the union.
It's ridiculously regressive that an Irish person cannot mention unification without an already avowed socially regressive DUP throwing the toys out.
Get over it.
And it is again funny that you are aligning yourself with a politics you say you oppose. Something fishy methinks.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists have agreed to get on with things, they don't pull juvenile strops when somebody mentions the UK or the union.
It's ridiculously regressive that an Irish person cannot mention unification without an already avowed socially regressive DUP throwing the toys out.
Get over it.
And it is again funny that you are aligning yourself with a politics you say you oppose. Something fishy methinks.

I hate to repeat myself but there is nothing inherently progressive or regressive about favoring or opposing a UI.

Start from that position and the logic of your post falls away.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I hate to repeat myself but there is nothing inherently progressive or regressive about favoring or opposing a UI.

Start from that position and the logic of your post falls away.

Emm so eu membership and free travel etc that comes with it

Better education in secondary schools
A much less stringent social classes (do you DUP and uup even come close to representing working class voters??)

Much Improved social welfare

Are these not facets of a progressive country???

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I hate to repeat myself but there is nothing inherently progressive or regressive about favoring or opposing a UI.

Start from that position and the logic of your post falls away.

Somebody taking a huff because it is mentioned is regressive. Think whatever you want about the actual idea.

And frankly, somebody defending the huff is no progressive.

steddyeddy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The DUP are wonderful. They really show Nationalists that they despise their nationality, culture, and heritage, and that there is no reasoning with unionists like them.

They have set up the future of the north as a zero-sum-game and one which they're destined to lose. Keep up the good work selling your young people down the river by helping them focus on their anti-culture.

All the while hating gays.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody taking a huff because it is mentioned is regressive. Think whatever you want about the actual idea.

And frankly, somebody defending the huff is no progressive.

It's not a case of "taking a huff" as I've said (multiple times) Arlene's attendence at the conference would have been implicit support of Kenny's comments that a UI would be on the table during Brexit negotiations.

In her position as first minister of NI she had to send a very clear signal to both the British and Irish governments that a UI would absolutely not be on the table and that the unionist community will not countenance any movement towards that area.

You may see this as a regressive position but opposing a United Ireland is not in and of itself a regressive position.

There are areas where unionists can make concessions to nationalists, in policing, parades, equality and the Irish language but the position of NI in the UK has to be an absolute red line for any unionist politician.

Junkyard Tom

steddyeddy wrote: »

All the while hating gays.

They're not just on the wrong side of history they're on the wrong side of the previous Century. It's remarkable to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LcYKniZx20

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not a case of "taking a huff" as I've said (multiple times) Arlene's attendence at the conference would have been implicit support of Kenny's comments that a UI would be on the table during Brexit negotiations.

In her position as first minister of NI she had to send a very clear signal to both the British and Irish governments that a UI would absolutely not be on the table and that the unionist community will not countenance any movement towards that area.

You may see this as a regressive position but opposing a United Ireland is not in and of itself a regressive position.

There are areas where unionists can make concessions to nationalists, in policing, parades, equality and the Irish language but the position of NI in the UK has to be an absolute red line for any unionist politician.

So a politician attending a conference is implicit support for the view of one of those at the conference?
How warped is that? Think what that means about conferences in general.

Regressive and ridiculous defence there from somebody with a few hundred posts defending a Brexit you didn't agree with. Sigh

130Kph

Provo neanderthals who came very close to separating a 16 year old Fosters head, arms, legs & internal organs from one another in a ‘legitimate targeted attack’ …………..on a f*cking school-bus full of children - now mock her as a politician.

Classy, you guys are really classy.

No matter how rubbish she is as a politician (and she probably is) - these savage low life oxygen-thieves are the last people on earth to be criticising her.

Maybe this is some kind of sophisticated satire or performance art or something? It can’t be more of the same centuries old hate filled, primitive, antagonistic shyte…

Or maybe extremists really are that retarded

Oh yeah, and brexit or something.