SFC Final Replay - Dublin v Mayo Sat 1st October *Read Mod Note Post #1*

Fr Tod Umptious

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Obviously Rochfords is a much bigger gamble but I saw some degree of sense to it myself because firstly there were doubts about Cillian O'Connors fitness so I thought it was to have a free taker on the field if he couldn't take the long distance ones and also I think Hennelly's kickouts are a little better than Clarkes. Clarkes kickouts always make me very nervous.

Obviously the move completely backfired and Rochford looks foolish now.

Interesting bit on the RTE website on this.
Decisions like that have a black and white outcome, you either win or lose.
Had Dublin lost people would be saying the Gavin's switches backfired.

One mistake by the man that was brought in for a diffetent tactical reason renders the whole thing a mistake.

As Rochford is quoted in the piece, he said they did it for kick out strategy, and has yet to analysis if of worked on that regard.

North of 32

washman3 wrote: »

Cant understand why the Mayo player who clocked Cooper after Keegan's goal got away scot free. Ran at least 5 metres to do it and caught Cooper completely blind-sided. Mean,sneaky and cowardly. Also completely ignored by the 'expert analysists' on the RTE panel.

It was absolutely farcical. At any other point during the game, that would have been a yellow card. He absolutely nailed him in the back. Later in the game, a Dublin player lined up a hit against someone after the whistle was blown and he was yellow carded immediately. Ignoring the hit on Cooper had me incredulous, especially as the umpires and referee even came together to discuss it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Interesting bit on the RTE website on this.
Decisions like that have a black and white outcome, you either win or lose.
Had Dublin lost people would be saying the Gavin's switches backfired.

One mistake by the man that was brought in for a diffetent tactical reason renders the whole thing a mistake.

As Rochford is quoted in the piece, he said they did it for kick out strategy, and has yet to analysis if of worked on that regard.

I guess it's a case if a team wins a match the manger is right, if they lose he's wrong is the way it's viewed.

To be honest I don't think Mayo's kick outs went well , not as good as they would have hoped at least and so for that reason it didn't quite work. Although Hennelly can give you a boost with kick outs compared to Clarke he can be a liable to make a goalkeeping mistake (which happened in 2013 aswell).

I can understand why the decision was made so I don't think Rochford should be slaughtered for it.It wasn't completely without sense.

ArielAtom

Well lads tis a great morning to be a Dub. Dublin could and probably should have cantered home, poor decision making when we had scoring opportunities cost us 5 points in the 2nd half. The impact our subs had was unreal, Costelloe kicking 3, Berno 1 and Mick setting up 3. Impact is one way to describe it. Hon the Dubs.

homerjay2005

People need to cop themselves on with this keeper nonsense and how they brought him in from" the cold ", you'd swear he spent the last 25 years in lapland the way people were talking. HENNELLY is a very experienced keeper who has played on the big stage multiple times.

Brian Cody has sprung lads in from "cold" very often in the past and I recall the replay against Galway for example throwing Walter Walsh in, he scored 1-4 and got man of match. Darran O Sullivan made his Kerry debut as a 19 year old in an all Ireland final and there's countless more examples of managers throwing lads in as a surprise.

You also only need to look back to 2014 final when Durkins bad kick out helped kerry beat Donegal - a man who up until then was the best keeper in the country.

Similarly, Claxton nearly cost Dublin their place in this year's all Ireland with two mistakes in the semi.

Mistakes happen, Hennelly would have done the same training all year as Clarke, he would have been mentally ready to come in all year and I think people are just looking for a scapegoat and as usual,The blame game towards management is already out in force in Mayo.

Mayo should first and foremost be looking at themselves and why they threw away the first game,a game that they should have won by 6-8 points. Will they vilify the two lads who scored the Ogs? What about Andy Morans miss? Did Keegan need to drag Connelly down? What about "beast mode" Aidan who failed to show up yet again and Cillian O Connor not only having a very poor game apart from frees, but then missing a handy free when the pressure was on.

Dublin won, best team in the country and that's that.

average_runner

North of 32 wrote: »

It was absolutely farcical. At any other point during the game, that would have been a yellow card. He absolutely nailed him in the back. Later in the game, a Dublin player lined up a hit against someone after the whistle was blown and he was yellow carded immediately. Ignoring the hit on Cooper had me incredulous, especially as the umpires and referee even came together to discuss it.

A Dublin player did the exact same thing against kerry.


A great game, both teams really went for it. Pity Mayo missed a free in the last min, they didn't deserve that again.

Dublin deserve their title, best team all year.

average_runner

homerjay2005 wrote: »

People need to cop themselves on with this keeper nonsense and how they brought him in from" the cold ", you'd swear he spent the last 25 years in lapland the way people were talking. HENNELLY is a very experienced keeper who has played on the big stage multiple times.

Brian Cody has sprung lads in from "cold" very often in the past and I recall the replay against Galway for example throwing Walter Walsh in, he scored 1-4 and got man of match. Darran O Sullivan made his Kerry debut as a 19 year old in an all Ireland final and there's countless more examples of managers throwing lads in as a surprise.

You also only need to look back to 2014 final when Durkins bad kick out helped kerry beat Donegal - a man who up until then was the best keeper in the country.

Similarly, Claxton nearly cost Dublin their place in this year's all Ireland with two mistakes in the semi.

Mistakes happen, Hennelly would have done the same training all year as Clarke, he would have been mentally ready to come in all year and I think people are just looking for a scapegoat and as usual,The blame game towards management is already out in force in Mayo.

Mayo should first and foremost be looking at themselves and why they threw away the first game,a game that they should have won by 6-8 points. Will they vilify the two lads who scored the Ogs? What about Andy Morans miss? Did Keegan need to drag Connelly down? What about "beast mode" Aidan who failed to show up yet again and Cillian O Connor not only having a very poor game apart from frees, but then missing a handy free when the pressure was on.

Dublin won, best team in the country and that's that.

You forget though, kilKenny plays club matches during their championship, so no player is coming in from the cold. Mayo keeper hadn't played since June, big difference.

Cluxton kicking won dublin the game, his kicking was brilliant

The Talking Bread

ArielAtom wrote: »

Well lads tis a great morning to be a Dub. Dublin could and probably should have cantered home, poor decision making when we had scoring opportunities cost us 5 points in the 2nd half. The impact our subs had was unreal, Costelloe kicking 3, Berno 1 and Mick setting up 3. Impact is one way to describe it. Hon the Dubs.

honestly??

Mayo had plenty of ball up around your 20 to 45m lines in the last quarter and couldnt get the shot off. Dublin broke and scored about 4 points from that.

To say you should have cantered home is naive and belies the situation. Our keeper gifted you 1-5 with some terrible errors (I blame the management for sticking him on, not him)
He also forced Keegan into having to make a black card tackle after hitting another bad kickout.
Dublin's defence and counter attacks and a few brilliant points from Costello and Brogan won that game in the end but even after all those goalkeeping errors and that penalty kick gifted Mayo still were in the game right up to the end.

You have a magnificent team but over 150 minutes there was a point between us so saying you should have cantered home is extremely hyperbole

homerjay2005

DDC1990 wrote: »

Just like Connolly the last day. Facing into the Hill grabbed the ball off a team mate, trying to write his name in history.

Many greats before him faced into situations like this before. Beano McDonald, Dessie Dolan, Cian Ward, Mark Vaughan, Jason Akermanis.

But he'll never be in that class.

(Thats how this thing works right, selecting one kick in a guys career and deciding if he is great or not depending on the result of the kick?)

Cillian O Connor is a good forward, great free taker, not a whole lot more.he will.never be a top class forward in the mould of Cooper, Brogan and all the other lads who on their way, scored big in big games to win all Irelands for their county.

he is Great for scoring 2-5 against New York and Leitrim, but when the push comes to shove, he just isn't good enough to be the difference and get Mayo over the line.

Up until yesterday, he had scored 0-9 from play all year, a poor return from somebody who is supposed to be a great player. Yet again yesterday,his contribution from open play was zilch

He is,in my opinion the most overrated player in the game right now. He is good, but that's it

The Talking Bread

charlie1980 wrote: »

Cillian O'Conner facing into Hill 16 to level the game.

Only the greats survive that.

Mickey Sheehy,Matt Connor,Brian Stafford,Manus Boyle,Mickey Linden,Peter Canavan,Oisin Mcconvile and Colm "the gooch" Cooper.

Cillian O'Conner will never be in their class.

DDC1990 wrote: »

Just like Connolly the last day. Facing into the Hill grabbed the ball off a team mate, trying to write his name in history.

Many greats before him faced into situations like this before. Beano McDonald, Dessie Dolan, Cian Ward, Mark Vaughan, Jason Akermanis.

But he'll never be in that class.

(Thats how this thing works right, selecting one kick in a guys career and deciding if he is great or not depending on the result of the kick?)

I could have sworn it was COC who scored a magnificent point in the last minute a fortnight ago to level the game.

Must have been one of the greats though.

The Talking Bread

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Cillian O Connor is a good forward, great free taker, not a whole lot more.he will.never be a top class forward in the mould of Cooper, Brogan and all the other lads who on their way, scored big in big games to win all Irelands for their county.

he is Great for scoring 2-5 against New York and Leitrim, but when the push comes to shove, he just isn't good enough to be the difference and get Mayo over the line.

Up until yesterday, he had scored 0-9 from play all year, a poor return from somebody who is supposed to be a great player. Yet again yesterday,his contribution from open play was zilch

He is,in my opinion the most overrated player in the game right now. He is good, but that's it

The truth is free taking is one of the most vital factors in modern football. COC wins plenty and scores most, from any angle he can hit them on his day. Another day and that was over.

People really hyperbole this COC is nothing but a free taker mallarky but the player does a lot of work and although there are better forwards than him around at the moment but he is far from average.

Interestingly, for the best player in the country (which he is), Connolly hasn't scored a whole lot more from play himself than COC

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That's because Mayo have not won an all Ireland in 65 years.

It's obvious neutrals would want Mayo to win.

The media were equally desperate for Dublin to win in 2011.

Thats the way people are they like to see the underdog win.

This. 100%. I'm still waiting for Antrim (and Dublin!) to win the AIHF and Fermanagh ("half of it is lakes and the other half is unionists"), Leitrim, Carlow and Longford to win the AIFF - "You'll be waiting!".

The breakthrough of the Ulster teams from the early 1990s was enormously heartening because it had the added dimension of being an assertion of national identity at a time when the Sunday Independent was trying to convince us they weren't Irish.

With no connection at all to Clare I cried in the stand in Cusack Park at the beauty of the game and what it was doing to the crowd in a match against Galway in the 90s (all sorts of random people with funny hats and flags made out of fertiliser bags were offering me sandwiches and cups of tea from their flasks!) The rise of Clare in the late 90s was a life-affirming experience - the underdog can win, and do it with fantastic style that moves a whole community and raises its self-esteem. The constant victories by Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp, Dublin, Kerry do nothing for advancing the sports. It's refreshing to see the weaker overthrowing the establishment. Irish history runs deep.

Long live the underdog, until they are no longer the underdog (e.g. Ard Mhaca, Tir Eoghain, Áth Cliath).

galwaylad14

Some truly horrible posts on here to be honest, the one about Cillian not being "one of the greats" based on nothing more than that free is laughable. Was he one of the greats 2 weeks ago when he scored an absolute peach to give Mayo a replay? He's a very good player and anyone could miss a free like that, it was no tap over.

There's no 2 ways about it though, what cost Mayo that game was the goalkeeper and nothing else. He directly gave Dublin 1-2 and got Keegan the black card. Easy to be wise now of course but hard to see why he was put in ahead of Clarke who had a decent game in the drawn final.

This Mayo team are so, so close to the promised land. They are every bit as good as Dublin and they just need to keep knocking on the door and eventually they will break it down. They're superb at the back and around the middle, probably just lacking one more really good forward but they were incredibly close even leaving that aside.

The Dubs are a class team in fairness to them.

Barlett

Is that, that eejit Charlie 1980 going around trolling everyone again? Will you ever give it a rest Charlie no one likes a gloater. Well done to Dublin, the better team on the day. We'll be back, the cause endures!
And now its time to unfollow this thread.

DDC1990

homerjay2005 wrote:

Cillian O Connor is a good forward, great free taker, not a whole lot more.he will.never be a top class forward in the mould of Cooper, Brogan and all the other lads who on their way, scored big in big games to win all Irelands for their county.

He's 24.

Bernard Brogan at 24 was a decent but unspectacular footballer. When he hit 26 he started to bloom and has been spectacular since.

Give O'Connor time. He might never be at Brogan's level but he has the potential with the right pieces around him to be at that level.

The_Kew_Tour

It's worst feeling losing AI final.

It's the morning/day after which is worst. That waking up feeling of emptiness. I can't imagine what it must be like for Mayo players.

But I don't have sympathy for them anymore. I'm sick of hearing about "the curse". It's not bad luck. It's not having the right attitude and feeling sorry for yourself. Ye have blown last 3 AI, all year had great chance to win.

Yesterday was about picking right team which they got wrong. It was about kicking on when they were in front which they could not do, it was about getting plenty of chances in last 10minutes to get to holy grail and they could not do it.

You don't deserve a AI, you have to earn it. mayo have not done that in past 27 years.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It's worst feeling losing AI final.

It's the morning/day after which is worst. That waking up feeling of emptiness. I can't imagine what it must be like for Mayo players.

But I don't have sympathy for them anymore. I'm sick of hearing about "the curse". It's not bad luck. It's not having the right attitude and feeling sorry for yourself. Ye have blown last 3 AI, all year had great chance to win.

Yesterday was about picking right team which they got wrong. It was about kicking on when they were in front which they could not do, it was about getting plenty of chances in last 10minutes to get to holy grail and they could not do it.

You don't deserve a AI, you have to earn it. mayo have not done that in past 27 years.

Simply not enough quality in the forwards. A Michael Murphy, Sean Cavanagh or Colin Cooper would of been the difference in 2012(two point loss) 2013(1 point loss) 2014(Drawn semi)2015(drawn semi)2016(Drawn final and 1 point loss). Any one of those players would likely of helped Mayo to at least 3 All Irelands.

Unfortunately we don't have anybody even close to there scoring ability from play. Feel really sorry for the backs, It is the best half back line in the country that has got them so close over the past five years.

theoneeyedman

A few small thimgs:
AOL had a good game IMHO. Did a lot of good work around the middle before he faded. His problem is he scored 3-4 flat track bullying a poor sligo team and mayo though the sea natural forward. He's not.....

2 management decisions cost mayo badly . The goalkeeper one is obvious and well aired. One would wonder if somemif hennellys club mates had an influende onnthevdecision.

The other one was the match up of keegan v console. Keegans attacking was sacrificed to curtail and imo get connolly sent off. Given keegan indiscipline it was a big risk and it too backfired.

Re the black card rule.....
It was obvious to me that when Mayo lost their second man to the BC, they lost a big part of their defensive strategy, ie fouling out the field. The third black card recipient couldn't be replaced and this their defence started shipping scores from play.
Any rule that discourages systematic fouling and prompotes open play is to be applauded

dixiefly

Well done to Dublin, they just had a bit more in reserve for the crucial stages of the second half. Mayo seemed to be playing catchup for most of the game and they really needed to get ahead as opposed to be chasing the game all of the time. Easier said than done though. I think Mayos defence was good enough that if they had managed a 3 or 4 point lead into the 2nd half they could have held them off.

The problem part of the goalie change for me was not necessarily the change in the first place but the failure to change back at half time when it was obviously not working. It's history now and we'll never know whether a change back would have changed back the result. For me it's debatable as Mayo needed to be appreciably better than the Dubs and build a lead in order to put them away.

Regarding the future, I hope Mayo can finally do it but it's hard to see it with this panel. An injection of fresh blood needed and a couple of scoring forwards.

Here in Meath we are hoping Andy, Gerry and co can reintroduce some decent competition in Leinster.

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

People need to cop themselves on with this keeper nonsense and how they brought him in from" the cold ", you'd swear he spent the last 25 years in lapland the way people were talking. HENNELLY is a very experienced keeper who has played on the big stage multiple times.

Brian Cody has sprung lads in from "cold" very often in the past and I recall the replay against Galway for example throwing Walter Walsh in, he scored 1-4 and got man of match. Darran O Sullivan made his Kerry debut as a 19 year old in an all Ireland final and there's countless more examples of managers throwing lads in as a surprise.

You also only need to look back to 2014 final when Durkins bad kick out helped kerry beat Donegal - a man who up until then was the best keeper in the country.

Similarly, Claxton nearly cost Dublin their place in this year's all Ireland with two mistakes in the semi.

Mistakes happen, Hennelly would have done the same training all year as Clarke, he would have been mentally ready to come in all year and I think people are just looking for a scapegoat and as usual,The blame game towards management is already out in force in Mayo.

Mayo should first and foremost be looking at themselves and why they threw away the first game,a game that they should have won by 6-8 points. Will they vilify the two lads who scored the Ogs? What about Andy Morans miss? Did Keegan need to drag Connelly down? What about "beast mode" Aidan who failed to show up yet again and Cillian O Connor not only having a very poor game apart from frees, but then missing a handy free when the pressure was on.

Dublin won, best team in the country and that's that.

They did throw away the first game, they never had it to throw away, they were always coming from behind.

The only team that threw a game away v Dublin this year was Kerry.

DDC1990

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

The only team that threw a game away v Dublin this year was Kerry.

Jesus you never miss a chance at a dig. It's pathetic.

Kerry were outplayed and lost to the better team. Dublin's bench helped Dublin outlast Kerry, just like Mayo yesterday.

The Talking Bread

not enough being said about Cormac Costello. 3 fabulous points. Delighted for lads like that, even as a Mayo fan, who seize the opportunity off the bench.

Good to see Brogan get a point also. Right decision to drop him, although PA didn't have a huge impact but coming off the bench, like I said earlier in the week but coming off the bench, he is a great man for picking the scraps up and in a tight game like that, he can thrive.

I have a feeling now that JG made that call, he will be used more sparingly next year. I reckon BB had no qualms with the decision either. He is smart enough to know he is not the player he used to be (although that was a huge standard)

Fr Tod Umptious

DDC1990 wrote: »

Jesus you never miss a chance at a dig. It's pathetic.

Kerry were outplayed and lost to the better team. Dublin's bench helped Dublin outlast Kerry, just like Mayo yesterday.

It's a dig at that particular poster rather than Kerry.


A bit like Mayo "throwing it away" v Dublin there is a lot more to "Kerry throwing it away" v Dublin than just the score line and the way the game panned out.

They were never going to be able to match the Dublin bench etc.

Back to the game last night, even if Cillian scored that free I think Dublin would have overrun them in ET, Mayo looked wrecked.

PeterTheNinth

Just watching The Sunday Game back from last nite. Very unfair to show just two clips at the start... One of Hennelly dropping the ball, and one of Dublin lifting the cup. There was a lot more to the game than just that, and while it was significant, it's very unfair to blame the keeper alone for losing the game.

The Talking Bread

PeterTheNinth wrote: »

Just watching The Sunday Game back from last nite. Very unfair to show just two clips at the start... One of Hennelly dropping the ball, and one of Dublin lifting the cup. There was a lot more to the game than just that, and while it was significant, it's very unfair to blame the keeper alone for losing the game.

They showed a 30 minute highlights after! Why was it unfair?? Most highlights programmes show little things like that at the start. It was the main talking point and crucial difference on the day, the dropping of Clarke.

there was a point in it at the end, he gifted them that penalty, gave Dublin 4 point chances which they took from unenforced errors, made an awful kickout that "forced" Keegan into his black card tackle.
Sadly for Hennelly (managements fault) his errors were the big difference on the day. \he would say that himself.

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

They showed a 30 minute highlights after! Why was it unfair?? Most highlights programmes show little things like that at the start. It was the main talking point and crucial difference on the day, the dropping of Clarke.

there was a point in it at the end, he gifted them that penalty, gave Dublin 4 point chances which they took from unenforced errors, made an awful kickout that "forced" Keegan into his black card tackle.
Sadly for Hennelly (managements fault) his errors were the big difference on the day. \he would say that himself.

Also supposed to be on for his free taking, which he sent 30 yards wide and short. I'd expect flanagan to be backup next year with Clarke #1. Could do with the two Hanleys back in Mayo instead of of been all stars in AFL. But thats what happens counties that can't match the funding required to keep their best players at home..

The Talking Bread

Deleted User wrote: »

Also supposed to be on for his free taking, which he sent 30 yards wide and short.

poor fella. Have to remember these lads live their lives engrossed in football, night in , night out. And for it to boil down to this, couldn't imagine what is going on in his head at the moment. But they clearly are a mentally strong bunch of lads, coming back year after year so hopefully that will help him over it.
just think he went out to prove a bit of a point also perhaps and that is not the right mindset when you are in goals.

washman3

corny wrote: »

I've been critical of O' Shea in the past....

The talk is always centred around exploiting his physical presence but today he showed how clever his movement is. Best on the pitch for me. Had Philly McMahon in all sorts of trouble and Keegans goal was all his doing. Worked himself to a standstill too. Great game and a great season imo.

Are you one of his media buddies or better still his agent.
He had a reasonable to average first half yesterday. his 2 turnovers were a case of Dublin players losing the ball out of contact and he just picking it up loosely.
His 'assist' for Keegan's goal was no more than what any junior forward would do.
Biggest credit must go to Keegan for his lung-bursting run and brilliant finish and to Seamie for winning the ball in midfield before the great defence-splitting footpass to Aidan. I've always admired Seamie, as honest as the day is long. Poor in the drawn game, though not from the lack of effort. Yesterday he was immense, up there with Paddy Durcan.
Aidan was virtually anonymous in the second half. For anyone to say he was the best on the pitch yesterday is mind-boggling. MDM did more in 15 mins yesterday than AOS did in both games.
Best on the pitch y/day were Durcan,Boyle,Seamie,Diarmuid and DOC for his excellent frees. AOS was well behind any of these as indeed ha was well behind any Dublin player or substitute.

DDC1990

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Back to the game last night, even if Cillian scored that free I think Dublin would have overrun them in ET, Mayo looked wrecked.

I agree with that. Both sides were out on their feet, but the impact the Dublin subs had was phenomenal.

I don't think Mayo threw it away the first day either, but for me they were the better team that day and had they got a bit of luck, perhaps they would have won.

While that doesn't necessarily mean they threw it away, I can understand why people are saying they threw it away. It's just a different interpretation of the phrase.

What's amazing, is like last years final and the drawn game this year, the amount of time a ball spilled from a Dublin player and they had another player there in front of his man to get the ball. Most critically it happened with McAuley coming through and he lost posession, but slid and kicked the ball which ended up in Cormac Costello's hands. Costello popped it over to bring the gap to 2 again.

It must be more than luck because it happens so often. This year in the Semi Final (or maybe the league final) against Kerry, Cluxton had to rush out and boot the ball clear. It ended up going over 50m straight into Connolly's hands out on the wing. Bernard Brogan got a point at a critical stage in the Final last year where a Kerry player made a great tackle and the ball pinballed around and ended up straight in his hands, to pop over the bar.

I'd love to know how it happens.

Menoetius

What a feeling, so proud of this Dublin team but have to give credit to Mayo.
2 absolute battles, they left everything on the field and both sides should be commended for their efforts.

Every year people question if Mayo are done, not me. They are closer than ever to lifting Sam and I fully expect them to be around next September.

Must be heartbreaking for Mayo fans today, but ye must also have a lot of pride too as they simply left their heart and souls on the pitch yesterday.

Up the Dubs!!!