SFC Final Replay - Dublin v Mayo Sat 1st October *Read Mod Note Post #1*

runnerholic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ah, lads, two or three of the lads on the Saturday Game last night putting up Cluxton as Player of the year potential and all of them putting him up as goalie of the year was silly season stuff.

Dont get me wrong, fabulous keeper, leader and had a very good game yesterday but POTY potential, never mind goalie of the year!! Am I missing something here?

Yes you are. He had another great season. The most influential footballer of the last decade. The greatest goalkeeper ever. Dublin will be a different team without him when he does retire.

Robeman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In hindsight, that was in a moment of fury yesterday when I wrote that. I think he is completely accountable, there is rumours he bowed to certain player power but he makes the calls and if that was the case, thats even worse management, especially considering all that went on last Winter.

I understand the tactical thoughts behind it but you can't take such a risk, or if you do, you should be held accountable.

I am sure he knows he made an error in judgement but to be fair to him he was equally scrupulous when he dropped Hennelly himself after the Galway game and Clarke came in and it was a masterstroke change. That was a big change at the time as it came after a mistake, albeit a big and gamechanging mistake against Galway.
He has made a few changes, dropped several players before the Championship including a very popular squad member, Mikey Conroy and mixed things around, when he felt needs be.

Most of his changes have reaped benefit but this was far too a risk when you had a keeper that was playing so well and although, seemingly a slightly inferior keeper to RH, he was full of confidence and rarely made too many errors on his kicking anyway.

He was also accustomed now to his players after a long qualifier campaign and had that final under his belt.

RH would have had that feeling of going out to prove himself also, and if you believe in that mantra, tried too hard and then after a couple of errors that led to points his confidence on the kickouts must have been spiralling down.

I really feel sorry for the guy as he was the "victim" of bad managerial astuteness and although he cant blame anyone for his own errors, he shouldn't have been there to make them.

Great mentality in that Mayo squad the way they keep coming back as hungry as ever before and that should stand in good stead for him and his confidence being regained once he gets over this tough period.

No sympathy for Rochford though (for that decision). You live and die by the sword. I'd equally praise him for his calculated decisions that worked. And, I don't think he just be sacked, as much as that was raging in my mind yesterday!!

If you knew what happened a year ago and who exactly did what your opinion might be different.

I hope the truth comes out in a way that leaves no doubt in peoples minds. Then we might have a revolution in Mayo GAA that might lead to an All Ireland.

The innocence of so many posters is endearing but leads them down the wrong paths.

The Talking Bread

runnerholic wrote: »

Yes you are. He had another great season. The most influential footballer of the last decade. The greatest goalkeeper ever. Dublin will be a different team without him when he does retire.

Clarke and the Tipp keeper had much better seasons. And were much more nb for their respective teams.

I am not knocking Cluxton, I made that clear. But he made many errors this season and had an awful first half against Kerry which may have lost them the game. To put him up against far more influential players this season for Dublin, never mind other counties was illogical.

Again, that isn't having a go at Cluxton. But would you personally deem him a candidate for player of the year, or even ahead of Clarke and Comerford in their importance?

The Talking Bread

Robeman wrote: »

If you knew what happened a year ago and who exactly did what your opinion might be different.

I hope the truth comes out in a way that leaves no doubt in peoples minds. Then we might have a revolution in Mayo GAA that might lead to an All Ireland.

The innocence of so many posters is endearing but leads them down the wrong paths.

Ok. Your vendetta and repetitive point on this is getting a bit tiresome though, no offence! Maybe spread it out over a few days!

Robeman

PhoneMain wrote: »

Robeman will you ever give it a break, you're getting boring now. I don't know whats annoying me more, this ****e you're spouting or the fact I can hear the Dublin celebrations from my bedroom window.

Sorry for boring you but I want Mayo to win an All Ireland and until we look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves it will not happen.

I am fed up losing and going to wakes afterwards in Dublin Hotels.

If you are interested in seeking the truth ask every Mayo person you know 2 questions and let us have the answers

- Where did the players coup meeting take place last Autumn
- Who booked the venue

Small questions but the answers should be illuminating.

bucketybuck

Robeman wrote: »

If you are interested in seeking the truth ask every Mayo person you know 2 questions and let us have the answers

- Where did the players coup meeting take place last Autumn
- Who booked the venue

Small questions but the answers should be illuminating.

So what are the answers?

Needles73

Robeman wrote: »

Pick one of the following

The ref
The weather
The opposition
The manager
The county board
The curse
The football
The dietician
The media
The hotel
The bus
The gear
The state of the pitch

anybody except themselves.

Will they now write another arrogent letter to the county board letting them know who is to blame and looking for total power to make all the decisions next season.

What they should now do is write three letters, to People of Mayo, County Board and Connnolly \ Holmes apologising for their arrogent behavoir this past year

Would you ever just give it a rest

runnerholic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Clarke and the Tipp keeper had much better seasons. And were much more nb for their respective teams.

I am not knocking Cluxton, I made that clear. But he made many errors this season and had an awful first half against Kerry which may have lost them the game. To put him up against far more influential players this season for Dublin, never mind other counties was illogical.

Again, that isn't having a go at Cluxton. But would you personally deem him a candidate for player of the year, or even ahead of Clarke and Comerford in their importance?

Don't think he should be player of the year but I disagree that Clarke or Comerford are ahead of him. He was magnificent yesterday when it counted in the final.

Robeman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ok. Your vendetta and repetitive point on this is getting a bit tiresome though, no offence! Maybe spread it out over a few days!

I make no apologies for my views. I am fed up with all the what if and maybe's, the ref, the horrid cheating opposition, the media. Everybody is to blame except ourselves.

We need the truth to come out about what has happened in Mayo football this past year but is probably will not. It is frustrating to know something but not be able to prove it.

If it does then many view points will change.

My anger will pass in a few days as life goes on. No 11 trip to a Mayo featuring All Ireland will come around inside a few years and we will lose again and I will be angry all over again as they undoubtly will be some bull dust behind the defeat that if it had been avoided we could have won.

Robeman

bucketybuck wrote: »

So what are the answers?

It would be better if you got them independently of me and through your own research.

The Talking Bread

Robeman wrote: »

Sorry for boring you but I want Mayo to win an All Ireland and until we look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves it will not happen.

I am fed up losing and going to wakes afterwards in Dublin Hotels.

If you are interested in seeking the truth ask every Mayo person you know 2 questions and let us have the answers

- Where did the players coup meeting take place last Autumn
- Who booked the venue

Small questions but the answers should be illuminating.

those players have fought tooth and nail for their county and blasting on about conspiracy theories and obsessing about something that didn't make the blindest bit of difference and may have been the correct decision is futile.
You havent a clue the reasons why their may have been a lack in confidence in the management team. If last years management team want to come out let them do it.

They give up so much and clearly want an All Ireland more than anyone so now that the season is over, give it a little rest. They are young men with a lot of passion in their quests and maybe that passion boiled over.

I am not sure if you play football but faith in a management team by players happens every second club. And when they are playing at that level and with that much sacrifices and heartbreak, something is got to give.

Blame the county board, not the players. They let them go.

The Talking Bread

runnerholic wrote: »

Don't think he should be player of the year but I disagree that Clarke or Comerford are ahead of him. He was magnificent yesterday when it counted in the final.

i said ahead of him this season. Most have agreed on this.

Godge

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Clarke and the Tipp keeper had much better seasons. And were much more nb for their respective teams.

I am not knocking Cluxton, I made that clear. But he made many errors this season and had an awful first half against Kerry which may have lost them the game. To put him up against far more influential players this season for Dublin, never mind other counties was illogical.

Again, that isn't having a go at Cluxton. But would you personally deem him a candidate for player of the year, or even ahead of Clarke and Comerford in their importance?

How can Clarke have had a better season than Cluxton when Clarke was dropped for the biggest game of the year?

He cost Mayo the first day with poor kickouts, sure he made some good saves, but a goalkeeper has to make three/four saves a game, but might have 30 kickouts.

bucketybuck

Robeman wrote: »

It would be better if you got them independently of me and through your own research.

What better research than asking the guy who seemingly already knows the answers and is running around telling everybody that the issue even exists?

You are spouting conspiracy theory level nonsense so perhaps you should either put up or shut up.

runnerholic

The Talking Bread wrote: »

i said ahead of him this season. Most have agreed on this.

I meant this season also. Interested to hear where you get your stats on most peoples opinion on it. Have to agree to disagree.

Peist2007

Godge wrote: »

How can Clarke have had a better season than Cluxton when Clarke was dropped for the biggest game of the year?

Quite easily actually.

The Talking Bread

runnerholic wrote: »

I meant this season also. Interested to hear where you get your stats on most peoples opinion on it. Have to agree to disagree.

I am just saying in general in passing through most fans opinions on threads like these, media pieces and general conversations with people who follow the game, the vast majority have put forward those two as All Star candidates. I honestly haven't heard Cluxton mooted ahead ofeither of them before last night. So its not as if I am going solely on my own opinion.

The betting also reflected this, (and before you say anything I am not basing anything on betting) . S

I am merely saying that before yesterday Clarke was well ahead, still is, as favourite, followed by Comerford and Cluxton was about 6/1 yesterday morning. I think this was indicative of most fan's general opinion of it. Suddenly Cluxton has gone into 5/2 so if you think he is the player who will get the All Star. you can make a very nice buck out of it!
(so that answers the questions re stats, I amn't saying I went out and done a census!)

I am just basing it on my own opinion and general concensus of fans. (not all obviously and I am sure all Dubs fans will put Cluxton ahead of either of them)

Miccoli

As a Dublin fan there's no way cluxton deserves an all star.I think Comerford would be the obvious choice but that's unlikely to happen.

The flying mouse

The flying mouse wrote: »

Mayo are not going to win Sam Maguire anytime soon, according to the Sunday Game panel.

Asked if Mayo could win Sam Maguire in the next couple of years, there was an almost unanimous ‘no’ from the panel of Colm O’Rourke, Pat Spillane, Ciaran Whelan, Dessie Dolan and Tomás Ó Sé, while Joe Brolly asked why they couldn’t do it, and remained perplexed as to how they messed up in the replay.

“It was Dublin’s two flattest performances of the year, they were there for the taking but why did we all say 'no'?"

Former Mayo player Martin Carney warned that the psychological damage done by coming so close once again is yet to be revealed.

He said: “They drew level four times with Dublin, they never got ahead at critical moments.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/1002/820909-sunday-game-panel-on-mayo-prospects/

So the so called experts are saying there's no way Mayo are getting Sam soon ?

I'd have to agree with them, without new forwards and some luck(that we never seem to get) they won't.

charlie1980

Sadly,a poor turn out for the Mayo heros at MacHale park this evening.

Robeman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

those players have fought tooth and nail for their county and blasting on about conspiracy theories and obsessing about something that didn't make the blindest bit of difference and may have been the correct decision is futile.
You havent a clue the reasons why their may have been a lack in confidence in the management team. If last years management team want to come out let them do it.

They give up so much and clearly want an All Ireland more than anyone so now that the season is over, give it a little rest. They are young men with a lot of passion in their quests and maybe that passion boiled over.

I am not sure if you play football but faith in a management team by players happens every second club. And when they are playing at that level and with that much sacrifices and heartbreak, something is got to give.

Blame the county board, not the players. They let them go.

I have never questioned the players footballing skills and committment and have stated that if this was all that was needed to win an AI they would have a couple in the bag.

My obsession about the issues I am raising is no different to others obsessing about the ref or the Dublin players or the various mistakes made. On these boards we are all obsessing about what we thought was important in delivering win for Dublin. Most are focused on the field but mine are focused off it. Most would agree that biggest issue yesterday was off field with RH selection.

You are correct in saying that I haven't a clue the reasons why there may have been a lack of confidence in the previous management team.

In this I am no different from anyone as the players as I understand it never actually gave a reason. The county board again as I understand it tried to get players to set out their precise reasons in order that board could ensure that they were not repeated with new management.

Again as I understand it the players refused to give any reasons which was surprising as you would expect that they would also like to ensure that not repeated with new management.

I have not seen their letter and cannot find a copy on internet which seems surprising for a much discussed document. This would cast some light on the players thinking if it could be found.

Last years managers can hardly come out debating reasons for their removal if none were ever given or don't exist.

You are right the season is over but the preparations begin for the next campaign. If we do not get it right we are setting ourselves up to lose on our 11th trip for AI final since 89.

I firstly blame the county board for the debacle last year as they allowed it to happen. The players demanded and the board effectively allowed the players to be their equal in the management of the manager. The players were more than players this year.

We have to return to the situation where the Board oversees, the manager manages and the players play. The players played but I don't believe that only the manager managed and I don't think the board really oversaw.

The Talking Bread

Perhaps a separate thread then. This is the match thread and you are filling every second post with this, and noone wants to engage about it at the minute. You are essentially arguing among yourself! That's my point. Set up a thread on it if its such an issue and take the agenda, conspiracy theories, blame mongering, player bashing elsewhere.

Personally, I didn't read your post and I doubt many others will because it is the same thing over and over again.

Stoner

This is a match made in heaven !!!

Moo Moo Land

In hindsight I am disappointed that Keegan was asked to man-mark Connolly so negatively for the 2 matches. The goal showed how class Keegan can be. His duel with Connolly made the game worse and Keegan ended up getting punished for the messing both of them got up to in the first final. It was bound to happen given the circumstances. Stupid really.

Robeman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Perhaps a separate thread then. This is the match thread and you are filling every second post with this, and noone wants to engage about it at the minute. You are essentially arguing among yourself! That's my point. Set up a thread on it if its such an issue and take the agenda, conspiracy theories, blame mongering, player bashing elsewhere.

Personally, I didn't read your post and I doubt many others will because it is the same thing over and over again.

You are pretty much correct in pointing out that my posts are the same thing over and over again. I know what I know and my opinions are my own.

You could say the same about lots of posts e.g. all the posts about the ref, all the posts about black \ yellow cards, all the posts about the 2 benches, all the posts about how unlucky Mayo were, all the posts about all the fouls Mayo or Dublin committed \ did not comit , it is all very much the same things over and over again.

On the field Mayo and Dublin were separated by only a point, the real difference was off the field where Dublin are streets ahead of Mayo. Until we close the off the field gap with Dublin (+ Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, etc etc) we can never hope to close the gap on the field.

We ignore the off the field element at our peril. Mayo as usual sticks its head in the sand.

charlie1980

If I was Steven Rochford,I would be going around Mayo wearing a duffle coat with the hood up for the next few months.

He's a laughing stock.Sure, there will be gombeens in Mayo defending this geezer ,blind faith in an incomptent,ye know the drill ,blah blah blah

The players should dump him now and put McEntee in charge. .

Godge

Peist2007 wrote: »

Quite easily actually.

Let me see, the case for Clarke is like this. He wasn't in the Mayo team for the Connacht Championship but he had good games against Fermanagh, Kildare, Westmeath and Tipperary, all giants of gaelic football. In the final against Dublin, he had a short meltdown on his kickouts and was dropped for the replay.

This all means he has a good claim for an All-Star?

Listen, I know he is held in great esteem by Mayo supporters, one of them behind me called him the best goalie in the game as he came on (I wondered why he was on the bench). However, if you want to win an All-Star, you better be undisputed first choice in your county. At the moment, the biggest skill a goalkeeper needs is kickouts, that's how Cluxton has changed the game, at the moment, Clarke just isn't good enough (neither is Hennelly).

The Talking Bread

conveniently left out Tyrone there I see. A match where he made 3 brilliant saves, one a one on one and saved them at the end cutting out that hospital pass in last minute.

He had a very good kicking season also. I watched every single Mayo game and he is well on for an All Star


Also short of acknowledgement that Cluxton, too has made some errors on his kickouts, most notably in the semi final. Fair enough pick holes in the other two but balance it out.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Robeman wrote: »

Pick one of the following

The ref
The weather
The opposition
The manager
The county board
The curse
The football
The dietician
The media
The hotel
The bus
The gear
The state of the pitch

anybody except themselves.

Will they now write another arrogent letter to the county board letting them know who is to blame and looking for total power to make all the decisions next season.

What they should now do is write three letters, to People of Mayo, County Board and Connnolly \ Holmes apologising for their arrogent behavoir this past year

The players are perfectly entitled to have a big role in who the manager is they are the ones putting in the effort and they know a hell of a lot more about inter county football than any member of a county board.

They lost an all ireland final replay by one point that's all.The way you are going on you'd think they'd been beaten by London in the first round of the qualifiers.

Also please learn how to spell arrogant properly if you are going to use the word.

PressRun

Clarke had a short meltdown against Dublin. Cluxton had one against Kerry and that wasn't the first time for him either. Sometimes goalkeepers make errors. Clarke made a number of great saves and interventions over the course of the summer that often kept Mayo in it. He had a great season and didn't deserve to be dropped. Arguing "why was he on the bench then?" as some sort of clever response doesn't really wash since it was clearly a mistake to leave him on the bench.