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South Africa V Ireland, Second Test Build-up Thread

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    #242
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    They're goners. Maybe Moore in a couple of years if he signs deal to come back but nope until then. IRFU will be thinking long term and they're not gonna sacrifice the only negotiating chip they have for two guys who have never been first choice internationals.

    Jonny is concussed, Paddy is injured. Who they gona call ? Keatley to start and wrestle with his crisis of confidence. And Marsh on the bench ? Or dial 0033... ?


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    #243
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    bilston wrote: »
    Thinking about our depth next year it is very exciting

    LH - McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne
    TH - Ross, Furlong, Bealham, Moore
    Hooker - Best, Cronin, Strauss
    Lock - Toner, *Henderson, Dillane, Roux, Ryan
    Back Row - O'Mahony, Stander, O'Brien, Van Der Flier, Henry, Murphy, Reidy, Heaslip
    Scrum Half - Murray, Marmion, Reddan
    Out Half - Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
    Centre - Olding, Marshall, Henshaw, McCloskey
    Wings - Trimble, Bowe, Fitzgerald, D.Kearney, Earls, Zebo, Gilroy, Healy
    Full Back - *Payne, Kearney, O'Halloran

    That's 43 players and it's not including some young guys who aren't on tour like Ringrose, Adeoluken, Scholes (moving to Edinburgh probably puts him out of the picture), O'Donoghue and Conan

    You can probably take Moore and Madigan out of that list too.

    We don't have loads of 10s or THs. Plus they're squad regulars.

    We have loads of wingers and Scholes isn't in the squad.


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    #244
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    bilston wrote: »
    Thinking about our depth next year it is very exciting

    LH - McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne
    TH - Ross, Furlong, Bealham, Moore
    Hooker - Best, Cronin, Strauss
    Lock - Toner, *Henderson, Dillane, Roux, Ryan
    Back Row - O'Mahony, Stander, O'Brien, Van Der Flier, Henry, Murphy, Reidy, Heaslip
    Scrum Half - Murray, Marmion, Reddan
    Out Half - Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
    Centre - Olding, Marshall, Henshaw, McCloskey
    Wings - Trimble, Bowe, Fitzgerald, D.Kearney, Earls, Zebo, Gilroy, Healy
    Full Back - *Payne, Kearney, O'Halloran

    That's 43 players and it's not including some young guys who aren't on tour like Ringrose, Adeoluken, Scholes (moving to Edinburgh probably puts him out of the picture), O'Donoghue and Conan

    You can probably take Moore and Madigan out of that list too.

    We don't have loads of 10s or THs. Plus they're squad regulars.

    We have loads of wingers and Scholes isn't in the squad.

    Edit - Wee dark horse for the Irish squad this time next year is Bill Johnston. Munster don't have real quality at 10, having seen Johnston play last week, albeit at U20s level, he looks a talent. Is it that unrealistic to think he could be 1st choice at Munster by the end of next season? If that's the case and Sexton is with the Lions and Madigan isn't considered what odds Johnston could make the Irish tour? (Japan?). Watch this space I suppose, a lot can happen in 12 months, just ask Sean Reidy...


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    #245
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    bilston wrote: »
    a lot can happen in 12 months, just ask Sean Reidy...

    Sure can.

    Before his SA call-up, I doubt even Sean Reidy had heard of Sean Reidy.


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    #246
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Jonny is concussed, Paddy is injured. Who they gona call ? Keatley to start and wrestle with his crisis of confidence. And Marsh on the bench ? Or dial 0033... ?

    Players emerge. Nobody saw Bealham being an international th this season. Johnny Holland looks a very tidy prospect, to be honest one could have made a reasonable case for bringing him ahead of Madigan on this tour. Olding could probably cover 10 from the bench.

    Ross Byrne is meant to be a serious prospect too.

    Madigan & Moore won't be part of the squad.


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    #247
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    bilston wrote: »
    Edit - Wee dark horse for the Irish squad this time next year is Bill Johnston. Munster don't have real quality at 10, having seen Johnston play last week, albeit at U20s level, he looks a talent. Is it that unrealistic to think he could be 1st choice at Munster by the end of next season? If that's the case and Sexton is with the Lions and Madigan isn't considered what odds Johnston could make the Irish tour? (Japan?). Watch this space I suppose, a lot can happen in 12 months, just ask Sean Reidy...

    Ideal scenario is you have someone like Sexton who is in the later stages of his career, someone like Jackson who is coming into his prime, hopefully, and starts pushing Sexton for the starting spot and then someone like Johnston who is in and around both Sexton and Jackson for as long as possible before actually making a match day squad.

    The fact that next summer's tour is to Japan and not somewhere like New Zealand it is the perfect opportunity to bring someone like Johnston along, assuming he has a good season at Munster.

    Madigan could still be playing club rugby this time next year so he may not be available even if Schmidt, or whoever is in charge, wanted to bring him.


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    #248
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    Players emerge. Nobody saw Bealham being an international th this season. Johnny Holland looks a very tidy prospect, to be honest one could have made a reasonable case for bringing him ahead of Madigan on this tour. Olding could probably cover 10 from the bench.

    Ross Byrne is meant to be a serious prospect too.

    Madigan & Moore won't be part of the squad.
    Madigan wasn't considered for this squad either until Jonny was injured.


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    #249
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

    Madigan could still be playing club rugby this time next year so he may not be available even if Schmidt, or whoever is in charge, wanted to bring him.

    Madigan has to be released for the international windows.


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    #250
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    former total wrote: »
    Madigan has to be released for the international windows.

    Also the Top 14 don't play this late most years, and Bordeaux certainly don't


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    #251
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,191 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    ClanofLams wrote:
    Players emerge. Nobody saw Bealham being an international th this season. Johnny Holland looks a very tidy prospect, to be honest one could have made a reasonable case for bringing him ahead of Madigan on this tour. Olding could probably cover 10 from the bench.
    If Holland continues on in the same manner he finished this season, I'd have him odds on to get a cap against Canada.

    If he does that, there's a very strong chance he leapfrogs Madigan.


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    #252
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Buer wrote: »
    If Holland continues on in the same manner he finished this season, I'd have him odds on to get a cap against Canada.

    If he does that, there's a very strong chance he leapfrogs Madigan.

    I would say whoever is starting for Munster next season is going to leapfrog Madigan


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    #253
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Buer wrote: »
    If Holland continues on in the same manner he finished this season, I'd have him odds on to get a cap against Canada.

    If he does that, there's a very strong chance he leapfrogs Madigan.

    Less positionally flexible, but also less prone to random acts of insanity. A true headache for Joe.


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    #254
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    former total wrote: »
    Madigan has to be released for the international windows.

    I forgot it's only your man at Toulon that makes a fuss about it.


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    #255
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Zzippy wrote: »
    connachta wrote: »
    30th October 2018

    2017
    Right sorry, counting 1,2,3 is sooo hard! :D


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    #256
    mareegoo
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭mareegoo


    bilston wrote: »
    We don't have loads of 10s or THs. Plus they're squad regulars.

    We have loads of wingers and Scholes isn't in the squad.

    From that list you need to include Denis Buckley on a par with McGrath and streets ahead of kilcoyne. Totally consistent, good scrummager but dare i say he would get more turnovers than mcgrath - his body position over the ball is immaculate.

    Also you are forgetting we need to look towards 2019.

    So scratch reddan and in comes maybe cooney or mcgrath if he improves somewhat.
    At outhalf mr holland comes into the picture.
    Backrow I would fully expect heenan, masterson, connolly and SOB v2.0 all to be in squad ahead of reidy & van der flier. They are just better players and more skilful with ball in hand.
    ryan from leinster U20s will come in and keep an eye on cian romaine
    watch out for sam arnold at centre for munster next season


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    #257
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    mareegoo wrote: »
    bilston wrote: »
    We don't have loads of 10s or THs. Plus they're squad regulars.

    We have loads of wingers and Scholes isn't in the squad.

    From that list you need to include Denis Buckley on a par with McGrath and streets ahead of kilcoyne. Totally consistent, good scrummager but dare i say he would get more turnovers than mcgrath - his body position over the ball is immaculate.

    Also you are forgetting we need to look towards 2019.

    So scratch reddan and in comes maybe cooney or mcgrath if he improves somewhat.
    At outhalf mr holland comes into the picture.
    Backrow I would fully expect heenan, masterson, connolly and SOB v2.0 all to be in squad ahead of reidy & van der flier. They are just better players and more skilful with ball in hand.
    ryan from leinster U20s will come in and keep an eye on cian romaine
    watch out for sam arnold at centre for munster next season

    I should have included Buckley, but I don't agree he is on a par with McGrath.

    I didn't include the likes of Masterson, SOB2, Connelly, Ringrose, Holland etc deliberately. I was merely trying to demonstrate our depth with the current players. The fact you add them to the list merely demonstrates the fact we have more depth than ever.

    As for Arnold, he left Ulster for a reason and that is because he was behind Olding, McCloskey, Marshall, Payne and Cave in the midfield. In other words he has a fair bit to go, and that's not including Henshaw and Ringrose, but he is young and will come into contention eventually. He is a good player.


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    #258
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I don't think we have any player in any position as good as McGrath. Such an important player for us at the moment.


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    #259
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    I don't like the look of this team. Poor selections.

    Boks to win.


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    #260
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Mc Grath is streets ahead of any other LH at the moment.


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    #261
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I don't like the look of this team. Poor selections.

    Boks to win.

    Which changes do you take issue with?


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    #262
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I don't like the look of this team. Poor selections.

    Boks to win.

    Mr Positivity I've been expecting you...


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    #263
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Mr Positivity I've been expecting you...

    I think we might lose and the worst part about it is we'll probably end up with another week of being told about how rubbish Joe Schmidt, the most conservative man in the world who makes people cry in the video room, is.


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    #264
    Noopti
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Noopti


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think we might lose and the worst part about it is we'll probably end up with another week of being told about how rubbish Joe Schmidt, the most conservative man in the world who makes people cry in the video room, is.

    I think we may be surprised. I am not confident of a win, but I think this team will give it everything and give a very good account of themselves. I certainly don't think the Boks will find it easy


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    #265
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    I think Joe has been clever with this team, he's picked a side that will be strong and aggressive and will match the Saffers physically.
    He's taking a chance on maybe snatching the win, give some tired bodies a rest...and if we lose...getting everyone back fit and rested for the third test


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    #266
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think we might lose and the worst part about it is we'll probably end up with another week of being told about how rubbish Joe Schmidt, the most conservative man in the world who makes people cry in the video room, is.

    well it won't be from me for a change. i'm delighted with this team and if they get whipped I won't complain. its the type of team I like so if it fails well all I can do is hold my hands up


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    #267
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think we might lose and the worst part about it is we'll probably end up with another week of being told about how rubbish Joe Schmidt, the most conservative man in the world who makes people cry in the video room, is.

    I'd expect more than such straw-maning.

    Schmidt earned a reputation as a conservative coach for Ireland due to conservative, injury-enforced, selections and a conservative gameplan. This had the side going backwards over the last 12 months. It currently looks like Schmidt has acknowledged this and is trying to rectify it.


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    #268
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Billysays no wrote: »
    well it won't be from me for a change. i'm delighted with this team and if they get whipped I won't complain. its the type of team I like so if it fails well all I can do is hold my hands up

    Whatever changes you've made to your diet...keep 'em that way!

    Can't see a whipping at all. I know you probably can't either?

    Looking forward to this no end.


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    #269
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think we might lose and the worst part about it is we'll probably end up with another week of being told about how rubbish Joe Schmidt, the most conservative man in the world who makes people cry in the video room, is.
    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    I'd expect more than such straw-maning.

    Schmidt earned a reputation as a conservative coach for Ireland due to conservative, injury-enforced, selections and a conservative gameplan. This had the side going backwards over the last 12 months. It currently looks like Schmidt has acknowledged this and is trying to rectify it.

    Leave the bitching and moaning til after the game please. No more of this sh1te.


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    #270
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    kuang1 wrote: »
    Whatever changes you've made to your diet...keep 'em that way!

    Can't see a whipping at all. I know you probably can't either?

    Looking forward to this no end.
    I think its joe who has made a change to his diet and I love it :-)


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    #271
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    I'd expect more than such straw-maning.

    Schmidt earned a reputation as a conservative coach for Ireland due to conservative, injury-enforced, selections and a conservative gameplan. This had the side going backwards over the last 12 months. It currently looks like Schmidt has acknowledged this and is trying to rectify it.

    His selections in that period were in fact visionary, and so far on a superior plane of rugby thinking, that some mistook them for being conservative. 'Conservative' was just a pat label applied by those who didnt understand what he was doing and the genius of his plans.

    Joe is just working beyond the level of some observers rugby comprehension. Its like the difference between the person who knows the moves in chess and so can play it, and the grandmaster who can see many moves in advance with many alternatives of strategies and traps within that.

    Today's selection is just a little more understandable to the majority and so they are lauding it.


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