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Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

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    #1172
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    A good match. Ireland far exceeded my expectations so I was delighted. Murray was very good - hopefully the incessant box kicking is gone for good.

    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.


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    #1173
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    This 100% had nothing to do with how much or little the kicking game was used.


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    #1174
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    I was watching the Welsh line and cover a lot during the game, the second half in particular. And they always had at least 2 men covering the back field which limited our kicking options a lot (at least from what I saw anyway). This obviously helped with our line breaks though too as they didn't have as many up in the line.


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    #1175
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,938 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Heaslip VC

    That's why we drew :pac:


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    #1176
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This 100% had nothing to do with how much or little the kicking game was used.

    Are you 100% sure? :P


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    #1177
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Top tacklers from the weekend, no surprise they're all from the one game.

    Ca3lfeMXEAE1s7V.jpg


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    #1178
    Scythica
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Scythica


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Top tacklers from the weekend, no surprise they're all from the one game.

    Ca3lfeMXEAE1s7V.jpg

    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere


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    #1179
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Scythica wrote: »
    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere

    Phenomenal effort from both teams really, when you think about it. Everyone had to be 100% on it for the entire 80+ minutes and it was bloody physical for most of that too.


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    #1180
    penybont exile
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Phenomenal effort from both teams really, when you think about it. Everyone had to be 100% on it for the entire 80+ minutes and it was bloody physical for most of that too.
    As I said last week .... It would be a war of attrition. Loser to be the one who blinked first.

    No one blinked ...... Credit where it's due!


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    #1181
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Scythica wrote: »
    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere

    Is Healy's day done ?


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    #1182
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Is Healy's day done ?

    Maybe the knee he opted to have surgery on is what was keeping him from getting back to the Healy of old but he has definitely slipped in the pecking order. Or should have based on performances the past year.

    Were there rumours about him being off to England too? Will not help his cause much if true.


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    #1183
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Is Healy's day done ?

    If he can get back to his best he has a few more years left in him so I'd never count him out but we have 4 brilliant alternative, younger looseheads in the country in McGrath, Buckley, Cronin and Kilcoyne so he WILL have to be back to his best to be in the matchday 23 IMO.


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    #1184
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Maybe the knee he opted to have surgery on is what was keeping him from getting back to the Healy of old but he has definitely slipped in the pecking order. Or should have based on performances the past year.

    Were there rumours about him being off to England too? Will not help his cause much if true.
    Good point about the knee. His form was improving before he got the ban and the surgery but still not back to his best. Possibly that was holding him back.


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    #1185
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch - equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer - and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.


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    #1186
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch - equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer - and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.

    We really did ourselves no favours keeping it in hand that much tho. Especially in our 22. Thought we could've easily lost the game at the end by playing too much rugby in our own half... And I think if we kicked a bit more and played more territory we would've won the game.

    We didn't really do much kicking in the World Cup either bar the Argentina game, so I'm not sure where that's coming.


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    #1187
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch -

    No it's not horrible to watch, Ireland actually don't kick that much if you compare them to a lot of teams. The press just said they did and everyone else went along with it. I think it has been pointed out a few times by Ireland they actually kick less than other teams
    LorMal wrote: »
    equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer

    No its not and never will be


    LorMal wrote: »
    and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.

    Based on what? we have won 2 6 nations in last 2 years

    Won 4 out of 5 at World Cup. We lost one game when half of the team was out including our most influential players in forwards and backs.

    If you remember we also beat Australia/South Africa in last Autumn internationals.

    So please explain how it is ineffective?


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    #1188
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.


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    #1189
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    LorMal wrote: »
    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.
    Rugby is called Rugby football for a reason.

    You're also ignoring the fact that one third of our starting team was missing including the captain and the ten. Incidentally the ten that replaced him is not known for his ability to kick from hand.

    Finally, the Argentinians scored their first try from a kick.


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    #1190
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.

    What makes it "better" rugby?


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    #1191
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.

    Explain the better rugby please?


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    #1192
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Eh, no. You disagree with my opinion, fine. good for you.


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    #1193
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Good discussion.

    Next...


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    #1194
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Good discussion.

    Next...

    No need for that.


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    #1195
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    LorMal wrote: »
    Eh, no. You disagree with my opinion, fine. good for you.

    The amount Ireland kick is not a matter of opinion, it's measured in every match and we don't really kick any more than the other teams at the top end of the rankings.

    We lost to Argentina for a host of reasons. We missed 27 tackles, we totally got dominated up front, if you think that reason is that we kicked too much (30 kicks to their 22, so an extra kick every 10 mins) then that just isn't correct. Plus with the injuries they simply had a stronger side than us.


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    #1196
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Right. Thanks.....


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    #1197
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    LorMal wrote: »
    Right. Thanks.....

    No need for that, eh?


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    #1198
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    .ak wrote: »
    We really did ourselves no favours keeping it in hand that much tho. Especially in our 22. Thought we could've easily lost the game at the end by playing too much rugby in our own half... And I think if we kicked a bit more and played more territory we would've won the game.

    We didn't really do much kicking in the World Cup either bar the Argentina game, so I'm not sure where that's coming.
    In truth you need players of ability able to run a ball from inside your own lines. The Kearney's don't have that ability. Madigan is too mental to be trusted doing such things. But let's stick with them while toh still runs great lines and continues to score tries (tonight he does it again) and gilroy is shockingly good for ulster. What more proof. Maybe the French game will show the Kearney's up as the wales game showed zebo up. If you are playing rubbish no game is going to make you look better. I feel sorry for Joe with his insistence on experience over form. At least he got stander right. Move on Joe. Make the next steps. Please don't have us cringe at the Kearney's next.


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    #1199
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    No need for that, eh?

    Wtf?? I thanked the post??
    There is a real issue on this forum. Question the group think at your peril.
    What is so totally outrageous about not enjoying the kicking game and believing we play better more expansive, attacking rugby when we limit it?
    By all means disagree and point out where it has worked effectively. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be. There are few, if any, on here.
    But spare me the superior tone and the sarcasm please.


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    #1200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LorMal wrote: »
    Wtf?? I thanked the post??
    There is a real issue on this forum. Question the group think at your peril.
    What is so totally outrageous about not enjoying the kicking game and believing we play better more expansive, attacking rugby when we limit it?
    By all means disagree and point out where it has worked effectively. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be. There are few, if any, on here.
    But spare me the superior tone and the sarcasm please.

    I agree with what you think regarding tactics, and the kicking game being unenjoyable to watch. I know it's an effective tactic, but it's not enjoyable to watch, whoever does it.

    Ireland's main issue is that they aren't clinical enough when breaking the line. If they can sort that out, they will be pretty formidable.


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    #1201
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Basil3 wrote: »
    I agree with what you think regarding tactics, and the kicking game being unenjoyable to watch. I know it's an effective tactic, but it's not enjoyable to watch, whoever does it.

    Ireland's main issue is that they aren't clinical enough when breaking the line. If they can sort that out, they will be pretty formidable.

    Ireland certainly did rely on a kicking game a good deal in the 2014 AIs and the 2015 Six Nations. It didn't bother me personally but I can understand why some didn't find it enjoyable. I do think though consideration needs to be given to why we played that way and what has been happening since.

    After the 2014 Six Nations we lost a midfield that knew each other inside and out. Sexton-Darce-Drico was a fantastic combination and were able to play expansively because of how familiar they were with each other. Once Drico left and Darce was on his last legs Schmidt needed to find a new midfield and get them used to one another. So we limited our game to allow that to happen. Unfortunately Payne was injured in his first game and then Sexton missed the first game of the 2015 Championship. So it took a bit longer to bed down the midfield. That we managed to do that while maintaining our winning habit should be praised.

    Since then we've started to expand our game. We were kicking a lot less in the RWC and running it a lot more, even from our own 22. Unfortunately Henshaw and Payne both picked up injuries and their time together was limited further. On Sunday we saw a further step in the same direction. As the midfield get more familiar with each other we will continue to expand how we play, of that I'm sure.

    So it's perfectly okay for some to state that they didn't enjoy how Ireland played last season. A lot of people didn't. But it is important that people also recognise that there was good reason behind it and that while transforming the most important axis on the field from an attacking perspective we also continued winning. Look at Englands struggle to tie down a centre partnership and the difficulties that caused for an example of what kind of issues a side can have if they don't have a settled midfield. It's also important to acknowledge that we seem to have moved on from that kicking game too.


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