Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

What's the actual law on choke tackles becoming rucks? If the ball is not on the ground surely there's no ruck formed and a player who pits his knee down simply has to release the ball, no?

Once the tackled player is down he has to release the ball, at which point it becomes a ruck. Technically it's not a ruck until the ball is also down but the referee will shout that it is because it's just much quicker and clearer to the players.

Pudsy33

Scythica wrote: »

I work over in England, most people here (Devon) thought it was a good game but thought Eng Scot was better.

They also thing Eng will hammer us; and that Mako's pass for the try was the best thing ever. And both us and Wales should lose next week.

Which is surprising as they are normally a bit more objective and conversative believe it or not.

I enjoyed the England game least of all three this weekend. Am I wrong?

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

What's the actual law on choke tackles becoming rucks? If the ball is not on the ground surely there's no ruck formed and a player who pits his knee down simply has to release the ball, no?

If there's no maul, and no ruck, it's simply tackle ball....and the normal rules apply. Tacklers must release, and ball must be released as sydthebeat says.

I would hope the ref always favours the team in possession for any 50/50 calls.

Moflojo

pickarooney wrote: »

What's the actual law on choke tackles becoming rucks? If the ball is not on the ground surely there's no ruck formed and a player who pits his knee down simply has to release the ball, no?

I don't know the law, but in reference to Ireland v Wales yesterday it seemed to me that Mr. Garces wanted to avoid calling the choke tackles at all costs yesterday, as his interpretation didn't seem in line with anything we've seen since the choke tackle came to prominence a few years ago.

I think there are two possible explanations for this: The first is that there's a new directive (that I haven't heard mention of) to give players additional time to go to ground and delay calling the maul/choke tackle. The other explanation is that Gatland's mindgames about Garces' refereeing of the scrum worked a treat and Garces avoided calling scrums wherever he could!

Within the scrums themselves, it seemed to me that Garces was happy to make non-calls all day long, ignoring any foul play that lead to collapses and encouraging the 8s and 9s to play the ball whenever it was available. The only calls he actually made were when one team got forward momentum in the scrum (regardless of legality). I'm no scrum expert, but I thought Nathan White earned at least two fairly obvious penalties at scrumtime yesterday that were completely ignored by Garces.

.ak

It wasn't a case Wales had done their homework. It's very hard to engineer a choke tackle. We were just unlucky that the tackler didn't get to hold the player up long enough for a maul to form. A lot of the time garces was correct in calling it a tackle as we weren't strong enough to keep the carriers knees off the ground.

Although the one sexton was involved seemed to be held up for an age and garces refused to call it a maul. I had to laugh at sexton going absolutely mad, did anyone see him smash his hand off a Welsh players back as if it were an office desk?

sydthebeat

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I enjoyed the England game least of all three this weekend. Am I wrong?

completely agreed,

the standard of rugby was pretty poor in the france / italy game but at least it was an open game and close enough to be exciting

i though england were turgid and uninspiring, but powerful and effecive.... an ugly win

i think scotland really missed dunbar in the centre... himself and bennett have a great partnership.. and i dont think matt scott was a similar replacement.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I enjoyed the England game least of all three this weekend. Am I wrong?

To me all 3 games looked like 2 evenly matched teams going it at. The difference being the level at which they were matched at.

France v Italy looked like two teams with no real game plan just going at it hell for leather. No real structure, lots of mistakes.

England v Scotland looked like two teams with limited game plans mainly focused on their forwards and very little happening in the backs. The rugby didn't seem to be of a terribly high standard and it was less entertaining to watch than the France game although that's nothing to do with quality.

Ireland v Wales seemed like a much higher quality game. Two teams evenly matched at the higher end of the spectrum. The tempo didn't seem to let up for 80 minutes and there was lots of really good stuff on show from both sides. I may be biased though.

I must have a look and see if any SH media are reporting on it, see what they think.

Moflojo

.ak wrote: »

Although the one sexton was involved seemed to be held up for an age and garces refused to call it a maul. I had to laugh at sexton going absolutely mad, did anyone see him smash his hand off a Welsh players back as if it were an office desk?

Sexton was starting to lose it with Garces and was risking a penalty but it was really entertaining to watch. I loved it when Sexton had a go at Garces over Warburton questioning every decision:

"Who's reffing the game? Who's reffing the game?! Every time. Every time!"

Awesome. (I know, I know, that kind of thing has no place in rugby. This isn't soccer etc.)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Utah_Saint wrote: »

embrace the dark side....

*whispers* sometimes when Leinster play Ulster I cheer for Ulster....

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Moflojo wrote: »

Sexton was starting to lose it with Garces and was risking a penalty but it was really entertaining to watch. I loved it when Sexton had a go at Garces over Warburton questioning every decision:

"Who's reffing the game? Who's reffing the game?! Every time. Every time!"

Awesome. (I know, I know, that kind of thing has no place in rugby. This isn't soccer etc.)

There was another point where I think we did a choke tackle and Sexton wanted the ref to give something but he didn't and Sexton was slapping the backs of whoever was under him and yelling at Garces. Was gas to watch but probably best he wasn't one of the front runners for the captaincy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

There was another point where I think we did a choke tackle and Sexton wanted the ref to give something but he didn't and Sexton was slapping the backs of whoever was under him and yelling at Garces. Was gas to watch but probably best he wasn't one of the front runners for the captaincy

He's certainly got a temper

Moflojo

Deleted User wrote: »

He's certainly got a temper

It seems all of the pashun in the squad didn't leave with O'Connell.

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

*whispers* sometimes when Leinster play Ulster I cheer for Ulster....

:eek::eek::eek:

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Who was captain when Best went off?

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Who was captain when Best went off?

Heaslip VC

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Once the tackled player is down he has to release the ball, at which point it becomes a ruck. Technically it's not a ruck until the ball is also down but the referee will shout that it is because it's just much quicker and clearer to the players.

Tackler can release player and grab the ball? No ruck but ball is won.

eoferrall

Riskymove wrote: »

only on these threads is being proud of your club's players viewed as a negative

I think you are being way oversensitive and there is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing the sentiments he did

not being sensitive, but I do not see the point of it. Munster/ulster/leinster/connacht weren't playing, Ireland were.

donfers

take-homes from the game not widely reported or discussed

1. Jack Mcgrath is awesome, incredible engine, amazing tackle count

2. Heaslip had his best game in an Irish jersey for a while (perhaps motivated by threat to jersey from stander)

3. Rory Best doesn't seem to be captaincy material - not nasty or naggy enough, you need to get in the ref's ear and be a general pain in the ass, also it seemed to affect his game as he was just average which is below his normal level of good to excellent. I think Sexton has the right narky attitude to be captain and yes I am aware that not all refs respond well to that kind of attitude but on balance it certainly yields more benefits than being a good boy

4. McCarthy didn't take his chance - I don't believe he is good enough at this level, Ryan is the better option

5. Trimble didn't take his chance but he had some good moments and I'd give him another go against France

All other points that have been commonly made are fair and valid, Stander very good, Zebo mixed bag, our half-backs delivered, Ruddock delivered, Garces is an incredibly lenient ref particularly with regard to scrummaging and holding onto the ball (attacking player in ruck) - we need to manage these situations, the RTE panel need to vary their suit colour (all navy), Micky D gives all our opponents a psychological edge before the game has even started as they perceive the Irish to be an undersized, dwarf-like, tweed-wearing race etc. etc.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Tackler can release player and grab the ball? No ruck but ball is won.

If they can do it all very quickly without any other players being involved, then sure. If there are multiple players around the ball, then a ruck would form almost instantly.

Zzippy

eoferrall wrote: »

not being sensitive, but I do not see the point of it. Munster/ulster/leinster/connacht weren't playing, Ireland were.

Mod: There is enough provincial BS on this forum, which his post wasn't. People are entitled to express pride in their own, especially if it's not at the expense of others, and without being told off. Let's leave it here.

swiwi_

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I must have a look and see if any SH media are reporting on it, see what they think.

Here we go T_M_E

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rbs-6-nations-round-1-drama-in-dublin/

donfers

donfers wrote: »

2. Heaslip had his best game in an Irish jersey for a while (perhaps motivated by threat to jersey from stander)

This one always amuses me. As if a professional athlete consciously ups his game in the presence of a usurper.

pickarooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This one always amuses me. As if a professional athlete consciously ups his game in the presence of a usurper.

Well a professional athlete shouldn't perform at two hugely different levels depending on whether the crowd is behind him or not either but clearly they do.

The Black Stags

Deleted User wrote: »

This one always amuses me. As if a professional athlete consciously ups his game in the presence of a usurper.

He's human - we all are. Bet someone works a little harder with their boss looking over their shoulder - same sort of thing applies here.

The Lost Sheep

donfers wrote: »

take-homes from the game not widely reported or discussed

1. Jack Mcgrath is awesome, incredible engine, amazing tackle count

2. Heaslip had his best game in an Irish jersey for a while (perhaps motivated by threat to jersey from stander)

3. Rory Best doesn't seem to be captaincy material - not nasty or naggy enough, you need to get in the ref's ear and be a general pain in the ass, also it seemed to affect his game as he was just average which is below his normal level of good to excellent. I think Sexton has the right narky attitude to be captain and yes I am aware that not all refs respond well to that kind of attitude but on balance it certainly yields more benefits than being a good boy

4. McCarthy didn't take his chance - I don't believe he is good enough at this level, Ryan is the better option

5. Trimble didn't take his chance but he had some good moments and I'd give him another go against France

All other points that have been commonly made are fair and valid, Stander very good, Zebo mixed bag, our half-backs delivered, Ruddock delivered, Garces is an incredibly lenient ref particularly with regard to scrummaging and holding onto the ball (attacking player in ruck) - we need to manage these situations, the RTE panel need to vary their suit colour (all navy), Micky D gives all our opponents a psychological edge before the game has even started as they perceive the Irish to be an undersized, dwarf-like, tweed-wearing race etc. etc.

Heaslip was super. Don't think it was anything to do with Stander as competition
I disagree that Best isn't captain material. Don't see why they have to be naggy/nasty. Our 2 principal captains with Ireland past few years were neither. I disagree on Sexton as captain. 1 his attitude can be more likely to annoy referees and 2 he has enough to get on with as the outhalf/our principal playmaker/general

.ak

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This one always amuses me. As if a professional athlete consciously ups his game in the presence of a usurper.

Well actually I can agree with the post... What I don't agree with is that he massively upped his game... He's been playing like that for years!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I thought Heaslip was obviously good yesterday. As in sometimes, if you don't know what you're looking for, it can be hard to spot exactly what it is he's doing. Yesterday though it would have been obvious even to someone who had never seen a rugby game in their life what Heaslip was doing.

Also there could be a combination of things responsible for it. He's just in really good form, the emergence of a genuine competitor for the #8 shirt, other players doing more around the breakdowns allowing him to do more, the fact there was a lot of personal criticism leveled at him during the captaincy discussion too may be a motivating factor. Personally I don't care what's motivated him as long as he keeps it up.

Teferi

I don't buy the Heaslip-had-a-good-game-because-Stander-is-after-his-jersey narrative. He took over some of the duties that are normally reserved for other players which had a greater impact on his visibility on the TV screen (I imagine we won't be hearing the 'Heaslip can't carry' argument for a while) but the chap is doing the workhorse stuff week after week after week.

former total

Yesterday was the first Six Nations game that Rob Kearney did not start since 2011 and the first that Mike Ross did not start since 2010.

Pink Fairy

I think Heaslip had a very good game and it was in part down to Stander... Not because he's after his jersey, but because of the shift be put in and allowed Heaslip a bit more free reign and the ability to come off the back more than Ive seen him do in an Irish shirt in quite a while