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Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Murray Kinsella analysis http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/?utm_source=shortlink

    Interesting stat about ball in play time. 42 minutes which would have been the 2nd highest time at the World Cup. Apparently it's a Welsh thing.

    Amazing to see how professional rugby players can't do the basics right, like commit a man and create space.

    Also interesting that Trimble and Earls were both singled out for great defensive plays, but in both cases I would say they had their heads in the wrong position when making the tackle. Just asking for trouble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    corny wrote: »
    Did you see Warburton taunting Sexton behind Garces' back as he walked away?

    I'm with you. I love that stuff.:pac:

    Didn't notice Warburton's taunts, I guess he knew Sexton was ready to blow a gasket.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,652 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I thought the Irish scrum was a touch hard done by, Garces never once came over to White's side. Welsh LH had a dodgy bind for the majority of scrums, while Garces was getting on White for needing a longer bind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    just watching against the head on the player

    Jackman bigging up Payne's performance and how critical he is to irelands defensive shape and how badly he was missed against argentina

    They also highlighted the adjustments made to our defensive line from 1st to 2nd half and how good our ability to get the right guys at the end of the line


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    I thought the Irish scrum was a touch hard done by, Garces never once came over to White's side. Welsh LH had a dodgy bind for the majority of scrums, while Garces was getting on White for needing a longer bind.

    I saw someone mention the same thing during the match yesterday but they were saying Best needed to get in Garces ear about it after the first few times to get him to look at the other side.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    That was tom james.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    He took him to ground, the only reason the first one was a penalty was because he let go of Williams before he hit the ground.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    stephen_n wrote: »
    He took him to ground, the only reason the first one was a penalty was because he let go of Williams before he hit the ground.

    Maybe, still a bit of a risky tackling style, especially if people are going to try and milk it by flopping about like a salmon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    No that one was perfectly legal, it was on the opposite wing. You can lift and drive a player into the ground so long as they don't go above the horizontal. The ref at the time noticed and signaled play on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Maybe, still a bit of a risky tackling style, especially if people are going to try and milk it by flopping about like a salmon.

    If it's the one I'm thinking of it was perfectly legal. He took him to ground and I don't think he brought his legs above the horizontal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    The article about Madigan and Sexton in the French paper is kind of funny. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson after the attention they gave Sexton before we beat them in the world cup.

    Well last time they gave lots of attention and played mind games with Sexton and when he went off Mad dog came on and played his socks off.

    Now it seems to be doubly sure they are going after both :pac:


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Bazzo wrote: »
    If it's the one I'm thinking of it was perfectly legal. He took him to ground and I don't think he brought his legs above the horizontal.

    It looked quite similar to the Williams tackle to me but like I said I only saw it from the one angle and they were looking/talking about something else when they were showing the clip so didn't show it again.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,576 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    gamma001 wrote: »
    Well last time they gave lots of attention and played mind games with Sexton and when he went off Mad dog came on and played his socks off.

    Now it seems to be doubly sure they are going after both :pac:

    They're no exactly 'going after' Madigan. They just reckon it was about time he moved out of Sexton's shadow. The article covers previous rivalries a 10 in the Ward/Campbell years and the O'Gara/Sexton power struggle.

    There's a perception in France that Madigan is the more creative and dangerous player and should be challenging for the Irish 10/shirt. None of these people watch the Pro12 or have heard of Jimmy Gopperth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Here's the actual article
    https://m.midi-olympique.fr/article/20349-deux-ego-pour-un-seul-poste

    It's grand. No "going after" anyone.

    Balls.ie in poor journalism shocker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Here's the actual article
    https://m.midi-olympique.fr/article/20349-deux-ego-pour-un-seul-poste

    It's grand. No "going after" anyone.

    Balls.ie in poor journalism shocker.
    It wasn't just balls.ie, the indo had it too...

    :o

    ...as you were :D


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    To be fair Balls did say that the article was mainly just a comparison of the two players.The headline is the only "controversial" bit.

    The obvious solution here is to spring Paddy Jackson on them. They won't know what hit them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    To be fair Balls did say that the article was mainly just a comparison of the two players.The headline is the only "controversial" bit.

    aka clickbait


  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    Draws are kinda frustrating but they have an endearing quality in that they represent the fact that no one lost out there ..... Shake hands and move on.

    If the money men ever try to remove this by pandering to the dumb "we must have a winner" brigade the sport will be a lot poorer for it. (I'm not wholly convinced about deciding the winner of the tournament on points differential either but that's for another debate).

    I played in a nil-nil draw once .... A cup match ...... Many years later it's a game I remember fondly. The ref blew his whistle 30 seconds early ..... I'm convinced of this ..... As he saw us eyeing up what would have been a straight forward drop goal from a five metre scrum under the our opponents posts. "Shake hands, get cleaned up and have a few beers boys ..... Let's do it again next week". They beat us in that one ..... C'est la vie.

    On Sunday both teams can point to potential game changing moments ..... The Irish ones have been well documented on this thread so I won't go there. I've seen no TV coverage so am not going to debate the finer detail. However from my perspective Wales blew a winning position six minutes from the tape.

    The omens were not looking good for Ireland at half time ....... This was certainly reflected in the comments where I was sitting ...... Maybe where some of you folk were sitting the opinion was more bullish ..... I doubt it though.

    So as both teams tried to win (or more likely lose that precious point) in that mad two minutes at the end I kinda remembered that referee all those years ago as I turned to my neighbour, shook his hand and said .... "Let's get out of here, have a beer and do it again next week."


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    A good match. Ireland far exceeded my expectations so I was delighted. Murray was very good - hopefully the incessant box kicking is gone for good.
    Sexton , Stander, Heaslip, ODonnell, Best, Mc Grath, Toner - all excellent.
    Centres, Wings and Full back - all fair to middling. We need to look at Payne at Full Back, Mc Closkey in the Centre, Zebo on the wing for Earls.
    Think this year will be a close fight again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    A good match. Ireland far exceeded my expectations so I was delighted. Murray was very good - hopefully the incessant box kicking is gone for good.

    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    This 100% had nothing to do with how much or little the kicking game was used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    I was watching the Welsh line and cover a lot during the game, the second half in particular. And they always had at least 2 men covering the back field which limited our kicking options a lot (at least from what I saw anyway). This obviously helped with our line breaks though too as they didn't have as many up in the line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Heaslip VC

    That's why we drew :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    This 100% had nothing to do with how much or little the kicking game was used.

    Are you 100% sure? :P


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Top tacklers from the weekend, no surprise they're all from the one game.

    Ca3lfeMXEAE1s7V.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 967 ✭✭✭Scythica


    Top tacklers from the weekend, no surprise they're all from the one game.

    Ca3lfeMXEAE1s7V.jpg

    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Scythica wrote: »
    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere

    Phenomenal effort from both teams really, when you think about it. Everyone had to be 100% on it for the entire 80+ minutes and it was bloody physical for most of that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    Phenomenal effort from both teams really, when you think about it. Everyone had to be 100% on it for the entire 80+ minutes and it was bloody physical for most of that too.
    As I said last week .... It would be a war of attrition. Loser to be the one who blinked first.

    No one blinked ...... Credit where it's due!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Scythica wrote: »
    Outstanding effort from McGrath there, mad for a prop to have the kind of workload he did in that match, seemed to be everywhere

    Is Healy's day done ?


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Is Healy's day done ?

    Maybe the knee he opted to have surgery on is what was keeping him from getting back to the Healy of old but he has definitely slipped in the pecking order. Or should have based on performances the past year.

    Were there rumours about him being off to England too? Will not help his cause much if true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Is Healy's day done ?

    If he can get back to his best he has a few more years left in him so I'd never count him out but we have 4 brilliant alternative, younger looseheads in the country in McGrath, Buckley, Cronin and Kilcoyne so he WILL have to be back to his best to be in the matchday 23 IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Maybe the knee he opted to have surgery on is what was keeping him from getting back to the Healy of old but he has definitely slipped in the pecking order. Or should have based on performances the past year.

    Were there rumours about him being off to England too? Will not help his cause much if true.
    Good point about the knee. His form was improving before he got the ban and the surgery but still not back to his best. Possibly that was holding him back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I actually think they should have kicked more than they did.....they seemed to have it in there head about kicking and all the bad press they are getting so they didn't use the kick game when really they should have...

    It didn't help a few kicks went astray at start but the way France play I can see Murray/Sexton using the kicking game alot on Saturday.

    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch - equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer - and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch - equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer - and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.

    We really did ourselves no favours keeping it in hand that much tho. Especially in our 22. Thought we could've easily lost the game at the end by playing too much rugby in our own half... And I think if we kicked a bit more and played more territory we would've won the game.

    We didn't really do much kicking in the World Cup either bar the Argentina game, so I'm not sure where that's coming.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Well, hopefully not. It's horrible to watch -

    No it's not horrible to watch, Ireland actually don't kick that much if you compare them to a lot of teams. The press just said they did and everyone else went along with it. I think it has been pointed out a few times by Ireland they actually kick less than other teams
    LorMal wrote: »
    equivalent to playing 'the long ball' in soccer

    No its not and never will be


    LorMal wrote: »
    and equally ineffective against good teams - as we witnessed in the World Cup.

    Based on what? we have won 2 6 nations in last 2 years

    Won 4 out of 5 at World Cup. We lost one game when half of the team was out including our most influential players in forwards and backs.

    If you remember we also beat Australia/South Africa in last Autumn internationals.

    So please explain how it is ineffective?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    LorMal wrote: »
    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.
    Rugby is called Rugby football for a reason.

    You're also ignoring the fact that one third of our starting team was missing including the captain and the ten. Incidentally the ten that replaced him is not known for his ability to kick from hand.

    Finally, the Argentinians scored their first try from a kick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.

    What makes it "better" rugby?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    In a knock out competition, losing just 'one game' tends to be decisive. Argentina underlined our one dimensional approach and exploited it very effectively.

    You can enjoy the kicking game if you wish. I hate it. When we decide to play the ball instead of hoofing it we play better rugby.

    Explain the better rugby please?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Eh, no. You disagree with my opinion, fine. good for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Good discussion.

    Next...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Good discussion.

    Next...

    No need for that.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Eva Quick Handlebar


    LorMal wrote: »
    Eh, no. You disagree with my opinion, fine. good for you.

    The amount Ireland kick is not a matter of opinion, it's measured in every match and we don't really kick any more than the other teams at the top end of the rankings.

    We lost to Argentina for a host of reasons. We missed 27 tackles, we totally got dominated up front, if you think that reason is that we kicked too much (30 kicks to their 22, so an extra kick every 10 mins) then that just isn't correct. Plus with the injuries they simply had a stronger side than us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Right. Thanks.....


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Eva Quick Handlebar


    LorMal wrote: »
    Right. Thanks.....

    No need for that, eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    .ak wrote: »
    We really did ourselves no favours keeping it in hand that much tho. Especially in our 22. Thought we could've easily lost the game at the end by playing too much rugby in our own half... And I think if we kicked a bit more and played more territory we would've won the game.

    We didn't really do much kicking in the World Cup either bar the Argentina game, so I'm not sure where that's coming.
    In truth you need players of ability able to run a ball from inside your own lines. The Kearney's don't have that ability. Madigan is too mental to be trusted doing such things. But let's stick with them while toh still runs great lines and continues to score tries (tonight he does it again) and gilroy is shockingly good for ulster. What more proof. Maybe the French game will show the Kearney's up as the wales game showed zebo up. If you are playing rubbish no game is going to make you look better. I feel sorry for Joe with his insistence on experience over form. At least he got stander right. Move on Joe. Make the next steps. Please don't have us cringe at the Kearney's next.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    No need for that, eh?

    Wtf?? I thanked the post??
    There is a real issue on this forum. Question the group think at your peril.
    What is so totally outrageous about not enjoying the kicking game and believing we play better more expansive, attacking rugby when we limit it?
    By all means disagree and point out where it has worked effectively. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be. There are few, if any, on here.
    But spare me the superior tone and the sarcasm please.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    LorMal wrote: »
    Wtf?? I thanked the post??
    There is a real issue on this forum. Question the group think at your peril.
    What is so totally outrageous about not enjoying the kicking game and believing we play better more expansive, attacking rugby when we limit it?
    By all means disagree and point out where it has worked effectively. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be. There are few, if any, on here.
    But spare me the superior tone and the sarcasm please.

    I agree with what you think regarding tactics, and the kicking game being unenjoyable to watch. I know it's an effective tactic, but it's not enjoyable to watch, whoever does it.

    Ireland's main issue is that they aren't clinical enough when breaking the line. If they can sort that out, they will be pretty formidable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Basil3 wrote: »
    I agree with what you think regarding tactics, and the kicking game being unenjoyable to watch. I know it's an effective tactic, but it's not enjoyable to watch, whoever does it.

    Ireland's main issue is that they aren't clinical enough when breaking the line. If they can sort that out, they will be pretty formidable.

    Ireland certainly did rely on a kicking game a good deal in the 2014 AIs and the 2015 Six Nations. It didn't bother me personally but I can understand why some didn't find it enjoyable. I do think though consideration needs to be given to why we played that way and what has been happening since.

    After the 2014 Six Nations we lost a midfield that knew each other inside and out. Sexton-Darce-Drico was a fantastic combination and were able to play expansively because of how familiar they were with each other. Once Drico left and Darce was on his last legs Schmidt needed to find a new midfield and get them used to one another. So we limited our game to allow that to happen. Unfortunately Payne was injured in his first game and then Sexton missed the first game of the 2015 Championship. So it took a bit longer to bed down the midfield. That we managed to do that while maintaining our winning habit should be praised.

    Since then we've started to expand our game. We were kicking a lot less in the RWC and running it a lot more, even from our own 22. Unfortunately Henshaw and Payne both picked up injuries and their time together was limited further. On Sunday we saw a further step in the same direction. As the midfield get more familiar with each other we will continue to expand how we play, of that I'm sure.

    So it's perfectly okay for some to state that they didn't enjoy how Ireland played last season. A lot of people didn't. But it is important that people also recognise that there was good reason behind it and that while transforming the most important axis on the field from an attacking perspective we also continued winning. Look at Englands struggle to tie down a centre partnership and the difficulties that caused for an example of what kind of issues a side can have if they don't have a settled midfield. It's also important to acknowledge that we seem to have moved on from that kicking game too.


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