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Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

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    #1142
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Murray Kinsella analysis http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/?utm_source=shortlink

    Interesting stat about ball in play time. 42 minutes which would have been the 2nd highest time at the World Cup. Apparently it's a Welsh thing.


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    #1143
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Technically it's not a ruck until the ball is also down but the referee will shout that it is because it's just much quicker and clearer to the players.

    Do refs officially have this discretion to disregard the rules when they feel it works better their way rather than as written ?


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    #1144
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,314 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Do refs officially have this discretion to disregard the rules when they feel it works better their way rather than as written ?

    rugby has laws instead of rules so laws can be interpreted. In reality they shouldn't as refs are instructed on these things.


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    #1145
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Do refs officially have this discretion to disregard the rules when they feel it works better their way rather than as written ?

    No. They just know the rules. Most people having a pop off the ref don't.


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    #1146
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    http://www.balls.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-warren-gatland-integrity/323916

    bit odd really


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    #1147
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    aimee1 wrote: »
    http://www.balls.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-warren-gatland-integrity/323916

    bit odd really

    It's not like this is a new phenomenon, MOC at Leinster did it a few times andnim sure others have done it before and since


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    #1148
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    Pink Fairy wrote: »
    It's not like this is a new phenomenon, MOC at Leinster did it a few times andnim sure others have done it before and since

    I more meant gatland hasnt been shy in the past with his digs in the papers, if he is gonna dish it out then its gonna come back on him sometime.


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    #1149
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The article about Madigan and Sexton in the French paper is kind of funny. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson after the attention they gave Sexton before we beat them in the world cup.


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    #1150
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    former total wrote: »
    No. They just know the rules. Most people having a pop off the ref don't.

    Agree on that. But my question refers to giving refs the leeway to call a ruck even when the laws say it is not. i.e. are refs correct and sensible to do it, or are they wrong to use their power to flout them ?
    Genuine question.
    I do think ref are far too criticised by most even knowledgeable rugby folk, and expect them to make make correct decisions at a far higher rate than is physically possible with one pair of eyes in real time.
    If anything, I would have though over the last 3 years ish, refs were far to quick to call maul if a player is not cleanly and quickly tackled to the ground so I wouldnt quibble with any of the decisions he made yesterday on that front.


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    #1151
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭corny


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Sexton was starting to lose it with Garces and was risking a penalty but it was really entertaining to watch. I loved it when Sexton had a go at Garces over Warburton questioning every decision:

    "Who's reffing the game? Who's reffing the game?! Every time. Every time!"

    Awesome. (I know, I know, that kind of thing has no place in rugby. This isn't soccer etc.)

    Did you see Warburton taunting Sexton behind Garces' back as he walked away?

    I'm with you. I love that stuff.:pac:


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    #1152
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Murray Kinsella analysis http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/?utm_source=shortlink

    Interesting stat about ball in play time. 42 minutes which would have been the 2nd highest time at the World Cup. Apparently it's a Welsh thing.

    Amazing to see how professional rugby players can't do the basics right, like commit a man and create space.

    Also interesting that Trimble and Earls were both singled out for great defensive plays, but in both cases I would say they had their heads in the wrong position when making the tackle. Just asking for trouble.


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    #1153
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    corny wrote: »
    Did you see Warburton taunting Sexton behind Garces' back as he walked away?

    I'm with you. I love that stuff.:pac:

    Didn't notice Warburton's taunts, I guess he knew Sexton was ready to blow a gasket.


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    #1154
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I thought the Irish scrum was a touch hard done by, Garces never once came over to White's side. Welsh LH had a dodgy bind for the majority of scrums, while Garces was getting on White for needing a longer bind.


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    #1155
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    just watching against the head on the player

    Jackman bigging up Payne's performance and how critical he is to irelands defensive shape and how badly he was missed against argentina

    They also highlighted the adjustments made to our defensive line from 1st to 2nd half and how good our ability to get the right guys at the end of the line


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    #1156
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    I thought the Irish scrum was a touch hard done by, Garces never once came over to White's side. Welsh LH had a dodgy bind for the majority of scrums, while Garces was getting on White for needing a longer bind.

    I saw someone mention the same thing during the match yesterday but they were saying Best needed to get in Garces ear about it after the first few times to get him to look at the other side.


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    #1157
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.


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    #1158
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    That was tom james.


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    #1159
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    He took him to ground, the only reason the first one was a penalty was because he let go of Williams before he hit the ground.


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    #1160
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    stephen_n wrote: »
    He took him to ground, the only reason the first one was a penalty was because he let go of Williams before he hit the ground.

    Maybe, still a bit of a risky tackling style, especially if people are going to try and milk it by flopping about like a salmon.


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    #1161
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Something I noticed when watching Against The Head tonight was Earls lifting someone in the tackle and dropping him. Very similar to the one with Williams except the Welsh guy didn't jump or wriggle in this one. Not sure who it was, black scrum cap and it was around the 42 minute mark. He wasn't called out for it, whether nobody noticed or it just looked worse from the angle I saw, I don't know. It definitely looked like he lifted him though. Something he needs to stop doing if he's in the habit of it.

    No that one was perfectly legal, it was on the opposite wing. You can lift and drive a player into the ground so long as they don't go above the horizontal. The ref at the time noticed and signaled play on.


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    #1162
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Maybe, still a bit of a risky tackling style, especially if people are going to try and milk it by flopping about like a salmon.

    If it's the one I'm thinking of it was perfectly legal. He took him to ground and I don't think he brought his legs above the horizontal.


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    #1163
    gamma001
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    The article about Madigan and Sexton in the French paper is kind of funny. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson after the attention they gave Sexton before we beat them in the world cup.

    Well last time they gave lots of attention and played mind games with Sexton and when he went off Mad dog came on and played his socks off.

    Now it seems to be doubly sure they are going after both :pac:


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    #1164
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Bazzo wrote: »
    If it's the one I'm thinking of it was perfectly legal. He took him to ground and I don't think he brought his legs above the horizontal.

    It looked quite similar to the Williams tackle to me but like I said I only saw it from the one angle and they were looking/talking about something else when they were showing the clip so didn't show it again.


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    #1165
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    gamma001 wrote: »
    Well last time they gave lots of attention and played mind games with Sexton and when he went off Mad dog came on and played his socks off.

    Now it seems to be doubly sure they are going after both :pac:

    They're no exactly 'going after' Madigan. They just reckon it was about time he moved out of Sexton's shadow. The article covers previous rivalries a 10 in the Ward/Campbell years and the O'Gara/Sexton power struggle.

    There's a perception in France that Madigan is the more creative and dangerous player and should be challenging for the Irish 10/shirt. None of these people watch the Pro12 or have heard of Jimmy Gopperth.


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    #1166
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Here's the actual article
    https://m.midi-olympique.fr/article/20349-deux-ego-pour-un-seul-poste

    It's grand. No "going after" anyone.

    Balls.ie in poor journalism shocker.


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    #1167
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    former total wrote: »
    Here's the actual article
    https://m.midi-olympique.fr/article/20349-deux-ego-pour-un-seul-poste

    It's grand. No "going after" anyone.

    Balls.ie in poor journalism shocker.
    It wasn't just balls.ie, the indo had it too...

    :o

    ...as you were :D


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    #1168
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    To be fair Balls did say that the article was mainly just a comparison of the two players.The headline is the only "controversial" bit.

    The obvious solution here is to spring Paddy Jackson on them. They won't know what hit them.


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    #1169
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    To be fair Balls did say that the article was mainly just a comparison of the two players.The headline is the only "controversial" bit.

    aka clickbait


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    #1170
    penybont exile
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    Draws are kinda frustrating but they have an endearing quality in that they represent the fact that no one lost out there ..... Shake hands and move on.

    If the money men ever try to remove this by pandering to the dumb "we must have a winner" brigade the sport will be a lot poorer for it. (I'm not wholly convinced about deciding the winner of the tournament on points differential either but that's for another debate).

    I played in a nil-nil draw once .... A cup match ...... Many years later it's a game I remember fondly. The ref blew his whistle 30 seconds early ..... I'm convinced of this ..... As he saw us eyeing up what would have been a straight forward drop goal from a five metre scrum under the our opponents posts. "Shake hands, get cleaned up and have a few beers boys ..... Let's do it again next week". They beat us in that one ..... C'est la vie.

    On Sunday both teams can point to potential game changing moments ..... The Irish ones have been well documented on this thread so I won't go there. I've seen no TV coverage so am not going to debate the finer detail. However from my perspective Wales blew a winning position six minutes from the tape.

    The omens were not looking good for Ireland at half time ....... This was certainly reflected in the comments where I was sitting ...... Maybe where some of you folk were sitting the opinion was more bullish ..... I doubt it though.

    So as both teams tried to win (or more likely lose that precious point) in that mad two minutes at the end I kinda remembered that referee all those years ago as I turned to my neighbour, shook his hand and said .... "Let's get out of here, have a beer and do it again next week."


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    #1171
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    A good match. Ireland far exceeded my expectations so I was delighted. Murray was very good - hopefully the incessant box kicking is gone for good.
    Sexton , Stander, Heaslip, ODonnell, Best, Mc Grath, Toner - all excellent.
    Centres, Wings and Full back - all fair to middling. We need to look at Payne at Full Back, Mc Closkey in the Centre, Zebo on the wing for Earls.
    Think this year will be a close fight again.


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