MORE crap on the way.

Grizzly 45

Looks like the Swiss have fallen to the lure of the EU Soviet Shenegen deal.:(:(
https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/18/are-switzerland-s-gun-laws-about-to-change-euronews-answers?fbclid=IwAR1zLEZDy5MEOMxaTyWxft_Jzc1B2wSSnJ5TLKi0cBIuOI2uyfbzXB0EabI

rugerfanatic

"Following terrorist gun attacks in Paris and Brussels in 2015 and 2016, the EU tightened gun rules, known as the "EU Gun Ban", the bloc encouraged Switzerland to comply with its laws............................................

"If Switzerland refused, the country could have been excluded from the Schengen Area."

Encouraged & then threatened ...... Hard to believe EU is supposed to be a democracy :rolleyes:

oldgit1897

rugerfanatic wrote: »

"Following terrorist gun attacks in Paris and Brussels in 2015 and 2016, the EU tightened gun rules, known as the "EU Gun Ban", the bloc encouraged Switzerland to comply with its laws............................................

"If Switzerland refused, the country could have been excluded from the Schengen Area."

Encouraged & then threatened ...... Hard to believe EU is supposed to be a democracy :rolleyes:

The eu threw open the borders to the middle east and africa, allowed in huge amounts of people with no back ground or security checks. There followed a spate of sexual assaults, criminality and more seriously, spree murders by religious nutters. The eu then decides that law abiding gun owners are the issue and goes about banning their firearms.

Pure stupidity.

As for the eu supposed to be about democracy, whatever gave you that notion ? The laws are drawn up in secret by the unelected commission which seems to comprise largely of ex-bankers, and are sent to the parliament to be passed or rejected. The elected parliament cannot propose legislation or amend legisation, they are powerless really. Still the Irish will trot out to the polling booths later in the week and vote for fg, ff and liebour people for meps, and tell us "we are at the heart of europe". Are we fairycakes.

Grizzly 45

oldgit1897 wrote: »

T

? The laws are drawn up in secret by the unelected commission which seems to comprise largely of ex-bankers, and are sent to the parliament to be passed or rejected. The elected parliament cannot propose legislation or amend legisation, they are powerless really. Still the Irish will trot out to the polling booths later in the week and vote for fg, ff and liebour people for meps, and tell us "we are at the heart of europe". Are we fairycakes.

Called Trilouges... Star chambers,with no offical recognition,media excluded,as are any sort of minutes being takenWhere the deecisions are made at 3AM with much shouting,bullying
and table thumping.Ask Viky Ford and Dita Chernosva about it.Both women MEP's who stood up to Peter Kings bullying on the EU gun ban.THAT is how EU decisions are made...:mad:

oldgit1897

A poll was done by the eu in the last few weeks, a large amount of people, particularly in France and Italy see the eu collapsing in the next few decades, not the Irish though, which is baffling to me, as there was a 700 year struggle to get away from an undemocratic empire, and then we join and whole heartedly support another one !

rugerfanatic

Now that the farmers are not benefiting as much from EU (beef farmers got €50 million out of the €100 million they demanded) I reckon in not too distant future once the media start telling the truth about what people think of EU we may actually be looking at Irexit.

oldgit1897

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Now that the farmers are not benefiting as much from EU (beef farmers got €50 million out of the €100 million they demanded) I reckon in not too distant future once the media start telling the truth about what people think of EU we may actually be looking at Irexit.

The national broadcasters like the bbc and rte receive "funding" from the eu, why would blueshirt fm bite the hand that feeds and tell the truth ?

minktrapper

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Now that the farmers are not benefiting as much from EU (beef farmers got €50 million out of the €100 million they demanded) I reckon in not too distant future once the media start telling the truth about what people think of EU we may actually be looking at Irexit.

Farmers don't benefit from the E.U.. Consumers/food production does. Food producers are merely caught in the middle.

Cass

oldgit1897 wrote: »

..... not the Irish though, which is baffling to me, as there was a 700 year struggle to get away from an undemocratic empire, and then we join and whole heartedly support another one !

• When we have the EU/Germans auditing our budgets before even the Dail sees them
• When we have 9,000 Euro of debt per person compared to the rest of Europe (42% of total EU debt) being paid by Irish tax payers
• When we have Ministers delaying the results of budget reports because of how they may effect local elections
• When we have 158 million Euro paid into a tribunal with no power of subpoena or arrest
• When we have 2 billion for a childrens hospital (costs twice as much as the world's tallest building) from a inept manchild that never even finished college
• When we have the unelected leader that says he supports free speech but shuts down parts of the city in anticipation of protests while having AGS illegal check IDs of citizens (no power under section 2 to ask for ID unless a crime is committed or believed to have occurred)
• When we have a proven corrupt former leader still drawing pension and thinking of running for President
• When we have former Garda Commissioner's still receiving their lump sums and pensions and then getting cushy EU jobs or their defense costs covered by taxpayer monies
• When we have rampant corruption in our national police force so much so that total section of the force are disbanded to built up from scratch and high ranking members suspended/arrested
• When we have the current unelected leader giving the former leader an award and lump sum prize that was created by the very office both men held
• When we have current chief whips and TDs sending AGS out to intimidate members of the press
• When we have TDs that were proven to have accepted brides from private businesses for contracts and the same businesses getting new contracts for billion euro broadband networks
• When the leader of the opposition calls Sovereignty an outdated and backward way of thinking
• When we have unprecedented homelessness, and under recording of those figures to make is seem less severe
• When we have a national health service emergency that goes ignored
• When we have the Government declare a "climate emergency" then have only one TD turn up in the Dail to debate it

..................... are you in any way surprised that we bend over as soon as our EU masters tell us to.

Firearms have been a staple of our way of life for hundreds of years. From farmers needing them for crop/livestock protection to ordinary people needing them because if they didn't hunt they didn't eat. Now that we live in a digital age where there is a supermarket on every corner and those in cities think they are more advanced, and better educated than the rest of the country we are supposed to give up that way of life and that heritage to "civilized". Are these the same people "civilized people that voted to allow the murder of babies i wonder?

We all heard the same talk when growing up about breaking free from 700 or 800 years of oppression. The same firearms our ancestors used to feed and defend themselves were used by our founding fathers to break us free from oppression, slavery and servitude. Yet it took barely 100 years to voluntarily walk back into it.

The Irish are great at bitching and moaning, but that is all we do. We never act, stand up for our rights, or say we've had enough. We sit back, bitch, moan, and post on forums and social media (exactly like i'm doing now) and then go to the polling stations and vote the same people (and i don't mean parties only, i mean the exact same people) back into office because "well i've always voted for them".

We our having our rights taken from us not only by our own politicians who act on their own interests and not for the people that voted them into office, but now by our EU masters who answer to no one. Those rights are then "sold back" to us under the guise of taxation, licenses, and sometimes never at all.

The EU is not a country, it has no sovereignty, it has unelected leaders making sweeping decisions for nearly 500 million people.

Ireland is a Republic. That means our elected representatives/politicians act in our best interests or at least they should.

Donald Trump won because people were fed up. Sebastian Kurz won in Austria because people were fed up. Brexit happened because people were fed up. Only yesterday the Australian Prime Minister was re-elected because of the same.

The fake news machine was found to have omitted or under reported exit polls in all the above and it's why people were so shocked when they won. Most of the "civilized" people i spoke of above now criticize these leaders and say anyone who follows or supports them is a Nazi, Fascist, etc. It's this blind ignorance of the will of the majority, the double standards, the corruption, the unending cycle of the last 50 years that has people fed up.

Nothing will change until we, the people, make it happen. Voting in the same people who have held office for all their adult life and done nothing in that time will not change a thing.

What has any of this to do with a lead ban. It'll happen despite our piss poor efforts at stopping it because its an opportunity to virtue signal to the world at how progressive we are, and ban a sh*t load of guns while they're at it.

IOW business as usual.

Grizzly 45

Make a change next Friday.I'm voting totally for anyone who is a euro skeptic.It has to start sometime,somewhere.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Make a change next Friday.I'm voting totally for anyone who is a euro skeptic.It has to start sometime,somewhere.

Me too Grizz, or if there is no one spoil the ballot. Personally i despise this country and i used to love it and be proud of it. It seems the country is run for trendy "progressive" issues, and virtue signalling. Millions spent on these issues, yet my heart sinks when i see a dozen people in sleeping bags and cardboard boxes in the doorway of the gaiety theatre on my way to work.

Cass

oldgit1897 wrote: »

...... or if there is no one spoil the ballot.........

Don't do that.

I never understand anyone who spoils a ballot or doesn't vote. How can you say you want change but not contribute to trying by either not voting or wasting a vote.

As little difference as you may think it makes, take the time, do the research and vote for whomever you think best suits your needs. However make a meaningful vote.

oldgit1897

Cass wrote: »

• When we have the EU/Germans auditing our budgets before even the Dail sees them
• When we have 9,000 Euro of debt per person compared to the rest of Europe (42% of total EU debt) being paid by Irish tax payers
• When we have Ministers delaying the results of budget reports because of how they may effect local elections
• When we have 158 million Euro paid into a tribunal with no power of subpoena or arrest
• When we have 2 billion for a childrens hospital (costs twice as much as the world's tallest building) from a inept manchild that never even finished college
• When we have the unelected leader that says he supports free speech but shuts down parts of the city in anticipation of protests while having AGS illegal check IDs of citizens (no power under section 2 to ask for ID unless a crime is committed or believed to have occurred)
• When we have a proven corrupt former leader still drawing pension and thinking of running for President
• When we have former Garda Commissioner's still receiving their lump sums and pensions and then getting cushy EU jobs or their defense costs covered by taxpayer monies
• When we have rampant corruption in our national police force so much so that total section of the force are disbanded to built up from scratch and high ranking members suspended/arrested
• When we have the current unelected leader giving the former leader an award and lump sum prize that was created by the very office both men held
• When we have current chief whips and TDs sending AGS out to intimidate members of the press
• When we have TDs that were proven to have accepted brides from private businesses for contracts and the same businesses getting new contracts for billion euro broadband networks
• When the leader of the opposition calls Sovereignty an outdated and backward way of thinking
• When we have unprecedented homelessness, and under recording of those figures to make is seem less severe
• When we have a national health service emergency that goes ignored
• When we have the Government declare a "climate emergency" then have only one TD turn up in the Dail to debate it

..................... are you in any way surprised that we bend over as soon as our EU masters tell us to.

Firearms have been a staple of our way of life for hundreds of years. From farmers needing them for crop/livestock protection to ordinary people needing them because if they didn't hunt they didn't eat. Now that we live in a digital age where there is a supermarket on every corner and those in cities think they are more advanced, and better educated than the rest of the country we are supposed to give up that way of life and that heritage to "civilized". Are these the same people "civilized people that voted to allow the murder of babies i wonder?

We all heard the same talk when growing up about breaking free from 700 or 800 years of oppression. The same firearms our ancestors used to feed and defend themselves were used by our founding fathers to break us free from oppression, slavery and servitude. Yet it took barely 100 years to voluntarily walk back into it.

The Irish are great at bitching and moaning, but that is all we do. We never act, stand up for our rights, or say we've had enough. We sit back, bitch, moan, and post on forums and social media (exactly like i'm doing now) and then go to the polling stations and vote the same people (and i don't mean parties only, i mean the exact same people) back into office because "well i've always voted for them".

We our having our rights taken from us not only by our own politicians who act on their own interests and not for the people that voted them into office, but now by our EU masters who answer to no one. Those rights are then "sold back" to us under the guise of taxation, licenses, and sometimes never at all.

The EU is not a country, it has no sovereignty, it has unelected leaders making sweeping decisions for nearly 500 million people.

Ireland is a Republic. That means our elected representatives/politicians act in our best interests or at least they should.

Donald Trump won because people were fed up. Sebastian Kurz won in Austria because people were fed up. Brexit happened because people were fed up. Only yesterday the Australian Prime Minister was re-elected because of the same.

The fake news machine was found to have omitted or under reported exit polls in all the above and it's why people were so shocked when they won. Most of the "civilized" people i spoke of above now criticize these leaders and say anyone who follows or supports them is a Nazi, Fascist, etc. It's this blind ignorance of the will of the majority, the double standards, the corruption, the unending cycle of the last 50 years that has people fed up.

Nothing will change until we, the people, make it happen. Voting in the same people who have held office for all their adult life and done nothing in that time will not change a thing.

What has any of this to do with a lead ban. It'll happen despite our piss poor efforts at stopping it because its an opportunity to virtue signal to the world at how progressive we are, and ban a sh*t load of guns while they're at it.

IOW business as usual.

Thank god Cass, i thought i was alone in my thinking, but you have hit on my views exactly. As for who i vote for, well i never vote for ff, fg, and never will. Labour and sinn fein are as bad as the rest, if not worse, the list gets a bit thin after that.

Anyway you know what Mark Twain said "If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it".

rugerfanatic

minktrapper wrote: »

Farmers don't benefit from the E.U...

Ya right :eek: Getting paid subsidies to do nothing is a major benefit! What other business that isn't viable & making money is bailed out by EU (I repeat €50 million to beef farmers who are in trouble).................

Nekarsulm

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Ya right :eek: Getting paid subsidies to do nothing is a major benefit! What other business that isn't viable & making money is bailed out by EU (I repeat €50 million to beef farmers who are in trouble).................

Absolute bull****.
Getting paid subsidies because the price paid for beef by the factories is below the cost of production.
Subsidies havent increased in 20 years, but every cost has, plus inflation, so its now necessary to farm twice the land area to have the same standard of living.
In 1987 I was getting 950 to 1000 punts for a factory weight bullock.
Green diesel was less than 80p a gallon, fertilizer was 150 punts a ton and animal feed about 120 punts a ton.
Land could be bought foe 1000 to 1300 punts per acre.
Today, a bullock sells for 1300 euros, green diesel is 70 cent a litre, fertilizer 330 euro a ton and 16% protein animal feed about the same.
Land costs are anything from 5,000 to 10,000 euro per acre.
So 30 years later what we sell still pays tbe same.
Are you bringing home the same pay packet today in euros, that you brought home in 1987 in punts?

The outlook is for this trend to continue, so in another 30 years we will need to double farm size again, and there is a limit to what any person can physically or mentally do.

EU subsidies are paid to ensure a cheap food supply to the population, and 95% of farmers hate the fact that they are reliant on them and would wish them gone .
Pay double or triple for your grocery shop, and that can happen.
Theres not a farmer out there who wouldnt relish telling the EU and the Dept. of Agriculture inspectors where to shove their inspections, their regulation, their artificially low age limits for cattle and their subsidies.

yubabill

Cass wrote: »

Don't do that.

I never understand anyone who spoils a ballot or doesn't vote. How can you say you want change but not contribute to trying by either not voting or wasting a vote.

As little difference as you may think it makes, take the time, do the research and vote for whomever you think best suits your needs. However make a meaningful vote.

The smart thing is to vote as a block, like Muslims do - they have a group here in Ireland which invites election candidates to court the Muslim vote;

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/new-muslim-group-in-dublin-to-encourage-engagement-with-politics-1.2478981

minktrapper

rugerfanatic wrote: »

minktrapper wrote: »

Farmers don't benefit from the E.U...

Ya right :eek: Getting paid subsidies to do nothing is a major benefit! What other business that isn't viable & making money is bailed out by EU (I repeat €50 million to beef farmers who are in trouble).................

To say that farmers are subsidised is a thing of the past. Everyone would be running a farm if that was the case. It's beef production that's in trouble.

rugerfanatic

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Are you bringing home the same pay packet today in euros, that you brought home in 1987 in punts?

Great question.

In 1987, I was earning £600 punts per week now I'm earning €400 per week..................

Cass

rugerfanatic wrote: »

In 1987, I was earning £600 punts per week ............

Were you standing on street corners

That is the equivalent of over €800 per week today.

I was earning £75 per week and that was, to me, decent enough money. 20 smokes cost 0.59p, a litre of petrol was 0.36p per litre, etc.

rugerfanatic

Cass wrote: »

Were you standing on street corners

If I was I'd have made a lot more than that

Cass wrote: »

That is the equivalent of over €800 per week today.

In real terms when you take cost of stuff then into account it was in the region of €2,000 in todays money :eek:

Cass wrote: »

I was earning £75 per week and that was, to me, decent enough money. 20 smokes cost 0.59p, a litre of petrol was 0.36p per litre, etc.

Needless to say, I wasn't earning it in this little bannana Republic

Nekarsulm

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Great question.

In 1987, I was earning £600 punts per week now I'm earning €400 per week..................

Thats near 800 euro a week, ignoring 30 years inflation....

Were you Taoiseach?
Most of the country was earning that in a month in 1986!

rugerfanatic

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Were you Taoiseach?
Most of the country was earning that in a month in 1986!

I should have elaborated in the original post..............and subsequently did above......

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Needless to say, I wasn't earning it in this little bannana Republic

Nekarsulm

Just saw that after posting it....

yubabill

yubabill wrote: »

The smart thing is to vote as a block, like Muslims do - they have a group here in Ireland which invites election candidates to court the Muslim vote;

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/new-muslim-group-in-dublin-to-encourage-engagement-with-politics-1.2478981

Didn't have time to expand earlier on this -

Anyone remember the Garda at the Justice Committee hearings on firearms in 2015 I think, say that licensed firearms holders exist mainly in a wide-ish band stretching north to south?

So, say 100,000 or so licensed firearm holders live mainly in 2 european election constituencies.

Now, if some single representative could approach prospective Euro MEPs looking for votes and they could realistically promise maybe 500 or 1000 votes.....

Grizzly 45

IF we were all living in one electoral district. Or IF we could break the mentality of voting FF/FG,whoever,because our great grand parents did.IF we could organise it on short notice.IF we could trust the canditates beyond an electoral promise.

yubabill

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

IF we were all living in one electoral district. Or IF we could break the mentality of voting FF/FG,whoever,because our great grand parents did.IF we could organise it on short notice.IF we could trust the canditates beyond an electoral promise.

Point taken, but say we allow that 99% of shooters don't subscribe to a block vote, then that leaves maybe 1000 voters spread across 2 Euro constituencies........

That's a reasonable amount of votes.

Electoral promises? OK we all know about them, but over time and allowing for one or two wins for us from the individual MEP then I think it's worth a try.

meathstevie

rugerfanatic wrote: »

Ya right :eek: Getting paid subsidies to do nothing is a major benefit! What other business that isn't viable & making money is bailed out by EU (I repeat €50 million to beef farmers who are in trouble).................

That'a actually one thing the EU has done right, continent wide food security. It's not ideal but definitely beats famine and wildly fluctuating prices depending on the whim of a few...

If it comes to subsidising non viable businesses I reckon farming is far more viable than the current model of banking which is surviving solely on subsidies and having the market rigged to their advantage...

Grizzly 45

yubabill wrote: »

Point taken, but say we allow that 99% of shooters don't subscribe to a block vote, then that leaves maybe 1000 voters spread across 2 Euro constituencies........

That's a reasonable amount of votes.

Electoral promises? OK we all know about them, but over time and allowing for one or two wins for us from the individual MEP then I think it's worth a try.

It is worth a try.But maybe we should try and start controlling the game than be chess pieces to be moved about at will? A thousand people becoming card carrying members in a minority party that is long established in the irish political system,and encouraging more of us to join it, as it becomes more and more pro fieldsport and genuinely concerned about enviromental issues and start changing and assimilating it to our way of thinking and ideals sounds alot more appealing.

yubabill

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It is worth a try.But maybe we should try and start controlling the game than be chess pieces to be moved about at will? A thousand people becoming card carrying members in a minority party that is long established in the irish political system,and encouraging more of us to join it, as it becomes more and more pro fieldsport and genuinely concerned about enviromental issues and start changing and assimilating it to our way of thinking and ideals sounds alot more appealing.

While I personally would have no problem with that, I'm pretty sure it would be hard to get even 1% of shooters to sign up, given the infighting that's a historical feature of our sport.

IMHO the only way forward with a block vote strategy for a group where everyone is a chief and no-one wants to be an indian, would be to ask everyone who subscribes to the idea who they want to vote for and then go with the majority candidate.

Pure, transparent and continued democracy with a narrow focus might prevent a lot of bickering.

garrettod

Hi,

No doubt that thee idea of us all lobbying politicians, voting as a block etc. is a good one., but we aren't organised for this election.

Maybe start a thread with some suggestions, start organising people for the next election?

I'm not a massive fan of the NRA, but we could certainly take a lesson from them on how to influence politicians.

In the meantime, we've elections on Friday. I've not had opportunity to speak with one single European candidate (only councillors), but for those who have, have you raised questions about our sport and if so, with who, and what was the response please?

In the short term, perhaps we can quickly put a list together of who is likely to try and do us not harm, if nothing else.

Thanks.