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Couple with six children killed in Palestine

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    #212
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well we could always refer to the kid in school uniform they shot today, or anyone of the thousands of previous incidents of violence and brutality used to maintain the occupation.

    I'm saying based on this picture alone you cannot attack the Israeli position towards Palestinians for their attempts to keep order. The occupation's crime is for all to see in the settlements that are being built which is a war crime and the siege of Gaza. These are not National Security or defending the population initiatives they are blatant acts of aggression.


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    #213
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    I'm saying based on this picture alone you cannot attack the Israeli position towards Palestinians for their attempts to keep order. .

    If its outside Israels 1967 borders, yes, I can. The mere presence of troops is enough.
    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The occupation's crime is for all to see in the settlements that are being built which is a war crime and the siege of Gaza. These are not National Security or defending the population initiatives they are blatant acts of aggression.

    This is true.


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    #214
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Whereas with the "support" of Zionist apologists and ethnic cleansing fans like you, they literally will get that hole in the head.

    Making up stuff is great fun. It doesn’t do much for your credibility though.

    There’s at least one way to end the occupation, settlements & general misery but it certainly isn’t Hamas’s or Arafats way.


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    #215
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    130Kph wrote: »
    Making up stuff is great fun. It doesn’t do much for your credibility though.
    Is that why you have no credibility? Ah well, admitting it is the first step I guess.


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    #216
    Kaiser Sosay
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭Kaiser Sosay


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ethnic cleansing and gerrymandering are not really one and the same accusation at all. You still have to back up your accusation in relation to the former. If gerrymandering really was evidence of ethnic cleansing, every political party here would be up for war crimes. "Is that any clearer now", "can I break it down any more to help you understand" etc etc etc.

    I can only assume that the complete lack of sense that you are making. Is based on you not having a clue about what the other poster was actually saying in their post. Or you could be just deliberately doing it I suppose.


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    #217
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kaiser Sosay wrote: »
    I can only assume that the complete lack of sense that you are making. Is based on you not having a clue about what the other poster was actually saying in their post. Or you could be just deliberately doing it I suppose.

    You don't accept that "gerrymandering" is not one and the same as "ethnic cleansing" and evidence of the former does not necessarily amount to the latter?

    !!


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    #218
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Whereas with the "support" of Zionist apologists and ethnic cleansing fans like you, they literally will get that hole in the head.

    In case you missed it, my position (which I implied earlier when I said “bleeding obvious”) is that the end of the occupation & settlements is essential & a bleeding obvious requirement.

    Which is the same minimal objective as most reasonable onlookers.

    We just differ in the method of achieving this.

    Or maybe you didn’t miss it….;)


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    #219
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,469 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    No
    I'm sure Nodin and Dan Solo will be delighted that Israel security services have caught the HAMAS terror cell that Carrie out this murder!
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/201438


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    #220
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Nodin wrote: »
    Hamas were elected in Gaza. This is the west bank, where the majority of Palestinians are. If you're going to comment, it would be nice if you actually has some vague notion of the realities beforehand.

    I don't get why people ignore this. Hamas are the elected government.


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    #221
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't get why people ignore this. Hamas are the elected government.

    ...in Gaza.


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    #222
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    I'm sure Nodin and Dan Solo will be delighted that Israel security services have caught the HAMAS terror cell that Carrie out this murder!
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/201438

    They still haven't arrested the terrorists, who burned a Palestinian baby to death a few weeks ago. I doubt they ever will at this rate. One standard of justice for Israeli's and another one for Palestinians.

    Also, to note they have demonlished (or are planning to, not sure if it has happened yet) the family homes of these suspects, interesting how the Israeli terrorist who murdered a young Woman at the Jerusalem gay pride parade, family home wasn't demolished. Interesting double standard, when it comes to punishing terrorists from Israel.


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    #223
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    I'm sure Nodin and Dan Solo will be delighted that Israel security services have caught the HAMAS terror cell that Carrie out this murder!
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/201438

    Who needs an investigation, a trial or even being innocent until proven guilty. Even the way that article reports it, there is not one use of the word suspects or allegedly there. Guilt has already been predetermined, but then again I suppose Israeli justice and its press, hasn't got time for the civilised and operating norms of true democracies.


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    #224
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Nodin wrote: »
    If its outside Israels 1967 borders, yes, I can. The mere presence of troops is enough.

    The Israeli troops are there to keep the peace between the settler community and the Palestinian community and it is the gvt policy to retain hold of Jerusalem. Neither Ramallah the authority of Abbas or Kirkuk the capital of the Kurdish community are given any power to enforce law and order so the Israelis are doing their jobs.


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    #225
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,577 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Israeli troops are there to keep the peace between the settler community and the Palestinian community and it is the gvt policy to retain hold of Jerusalem. Neither Ramallah the authority of Abbas or Kirkuk the capital of the Kurdish community are given any power to enforce law and order so the Israelis are doing their jobs.

    How many settlers have they killed as compared to Palestinians?


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    #226
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    tayto lover wrote: »
    How many settlers have they killed as compared to Palestinians?

    It's not about killing people it is about maintaining social cohesion. The settlers have a big vote in Israel whereas the Palestinians like the Kurds are treated as second class citizens and well statistically they commit on average more crimes than Israeli's, the same with lower classes in the US, South Africa or Ireland, vast majority of killings are perpetrated by the minorities.


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    #227
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,577 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    It's not about killing people it is about maintaining social cohesion. The settlers have a big vote in Israel whereas the Palestinians like the Kurds are treated as second class citizens and well statistically they commit on average more crimes than Israeli's, the same with lower classes in the US, South Africa or Ireland, vast majority of killings are perpetrated by the minorities.

    I would have said the Israeli Govt were the biggest killers.


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    #228
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Israeli troops are there to keep the peace between the settler community and the Palestinian community and it is the gvt policy to retain hold of Jerusalem. Neither Ramallah the authority of Abbas or Kirkuk the capital of the Kurdish community are given any power to enforce law and order so the Israelis are doing their jobs.


    Ahhh dear. Ye have a sense of humour at least.
    http://www.btselem.org/topic/settler_violence

    "The chance that a complaint submitted to the Israel Police by a Palestinian will lead to an effective investigation, the location of a suspect, prosecution, and ultimate conviction is just 1.9 percent."
    http://www.yesh-din.org/infoitem.asp?infocatid=704

    Please at least read the second link.


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    #229
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,488 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    No
    I read about this murder and the senselessness of it was deeply depressing. The mother was killed instantly. The father managed to drag himself out of the driver seat to open the door for his children to escape the gunmen before dying.

    Meanwhile, nothing was accomplished by the murder other than orphaning three children. No Palestinian lives were improved. The Israelis did not announce an immediate retreat from the West Bank. No dead Palestinians returned to life. Indeed, with the completely predictable Israeli response it is very likely increased Israeli military raids will lead to more Palestinian suffering.

    The Hamas response that the murder was an "honourable" and "heroic" act was not surprising. For all the people who support them and try to pretend they are a genuine political force or potential peace partner for Israel the reality of their charter calling for the genocide of Jewish people is reflected in their actions and their words. They are simply a symptom of the problem and should be treated as such. You make peace with your enemies, you don't make peace with groups who seek to exterminate you and your children.

    If the father hadn't found the strength to help his children escape, they would have murdered them too. That is the mentality the Israelis are facing.


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    #230
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭satguy


    I saw on the news recently, some Israeli bulldozers doing a job on some nice Palestinian homes, so as to make way for some Israeli homes. I think it's not OK to live on land taken from others, and to expect to live in piece.


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    #231
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,488 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    No
    Did the murder of the Henkins and the orphaning of their children magically stop the bulldozers? Or did it give greater strength to the natural Israeli anger that would increase the chances of those bulldozers rolling in?

    If the Palestinian strategy is to hand Israeli policy to the worst extremes of their right wing, its going brilliantly.


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    #232
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Sand wrote: »
    Did the murder of the Henkins and the orphaning of their children magically stop the bulldozers? Or did it give greater strength to the natural Israeli anger that would increase the chances of those bulldozers rolling in?

    If the Palestinian strategy is to hand Israeli policy to the worst extremes of their right wing, its going brilliantly.
    This is verbatim a parroting of the Zionist hoax that if you don't defend yourself against Zionism then they'll stop stealing your country. Proven as utter bollix countless times at this stage.


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    #233
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,488 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    No
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    This is verbatim a parroting of the Zionist hoax that if you don't defend yourself against Zionism then they'll stop stealing your country. Proven as utter bollix countless times at this stage.

    So the answer is no. Or rather the answer is the two are unrelated. So why introduce it to the discussion?


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    #234
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Israeli troops are there to keep the peace between the settler community and the Palestinian community and it is the gvt policy to retain hold of Jerusalem.

    The Israeli troops are there to destroy Palestinian lives. To harass the native people, to smash their homes, enforce apartheid, and to make life as easy as possible for all those Israeli land grabbers who are living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as criminals under international law.


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    #235
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,488 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    No
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The Israeli troops are there to destroy Palestinian lives. To harass the native people, to smash their homes, enforce apartheid, and to make life as easy as possible for all those Israeli land grabbers who are living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as criminals under international law.

    Were the Henkins "Israeli land grabbers" and "criminals under international law"? Is death the appropriate punishment for such crimes?

    Did their murder in *any* way prevent or criminalise Israeli land grabs or crimes under international law?


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    #236
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Sand wrote: »
    Were the Henkins "Israeli land grabbers" and "criminals under international law"? Is death the appropriate punishment for such crimes?

    Did their murder in *any* way prevent or criminalise Israeli land grabs or crimes under international law?

    Yes, they were criminals under international law as are all Israeli settlers.

    They knew full well the risks they were taking by leading their criminal lives and they were part of Israel's relentless terrorist machine smashing Palestinian communities, stealing natural resources like land and water, and bringing with them the force of Israel's apartheid regime in the Occupied Palestine.

    They were part of Israel's war machine, they knew it and they paid the price. I have no sympathy for them. My sympathy lies with those who are the victims of the criminal settlers.


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    #237
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    http://www.haaretz.com/wwwMobileSite/opinion/.premium-1.679129?v=A64C58943F0940DA6A2BF18FB8F25857

    Great article in the Israeli media attempting to explain to its' readers Israel's crimes.

    Tough fighting through all the propaganda which sells the occupier as the victim.


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    #238
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Sand wrote: »
    Were the Henkins "Israeli land grabbers"
    Israeli? Check.
    Voluntarily living on stolen land? Check.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/privatizing-the-use-of-force-in-the-west-bank-israeli-army-gives-militias-of-illegal-settlements-power-to-search-arrest/5405265
    Considering settlers are essentially the de facto rulers of their invaded and stolen territory, I think they certainly are responsible for it. It's little more than receiving stolen goods.


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    #239
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    http://muftah.org/israel-to-expand-settlements-in-golan-heights/#.VhLQWflVhHx

    Step forward another 100,000 criminals.


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    #240
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users Posts: 5,777 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    No
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    http://www.haaretz.com/wwwMobileSite/opinion/.premium-1.679129?v=A64C58943F0940DA6A2BF18FB8F25857

    Great article in the Israeli media attempting to explain to its' readers Israel's crimes.

    Tough fighting through all the propaganda which sells the occupier as the victim.

    Haaretz is very left-wing and very critical of the IDF.

    Israel is a country where the media can present two sides of an argument.


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    #241
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Haaretz is very left-wing and very critical of the IDF..

    You've a point?
    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Israel is a country where the media can present two sides of an argument.

    Dear Christ.....there's not much point in yammering on about a relatively free press in a state that runs apartheid like provinces outside its legal borders.


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