Couple with six children killed in Palestine

Wibbs

I thought I made clear that as far as I'm concerned it is how humanity has worked up to now and how progress and culture followed in its wake, but that it could most certainly be locally horrific for the poor bastards at the receiving end. The plain fact is modern culture was born in blood.

Imagine if modern Israel never existed and Europe never carried the stain of trying to rev up a genocide. What would Palestine look like today? They'd have no oil, Moses or their jehovah not being much cop as geologists, so you'd be looking at another no name ME state, or part of Lebanon or Jordan at best. It certainly would not be the industrial and innovative powerhouse it is today and it would likely not be a democracy either.

I also made clear that the Israelis have obviously colonised that land*. You'd want to go full retard to not see/admit this. Plenty of the pro Israel mob seem to mind you.






*previously I wrote; "We can go back and forth on this all the day long but the simplest thing is to look at a map of Israel in 1950 and then look at one from today. They colonised and have driven out non Jews from their land in the intervening years. Even Stevie Wonder can see that".

Dan_Solo

Wibbs wrote: »

I thought I made clear that as far as I'm concerned it is how humanity has worked up to now and how progress and culture followed in its wake, but that it could most certainly be locally horrific for the poor bastards at the receiving end. The plain fact is modern culture was born in blood.

Do you similarly admire the Nazis killing millions of Jews because, you know, genocide has happened fairly regularly in history and is therefore pretty much to be expected?

Kaiser Sosay

Wibbs wrote: »

Go right back to the start of the Israeli state and read up on it.

Thanks, but I'm pretty well versed. So I'll pass on your patronising suggestion.

Wibbs wrote: »

I seem to have confused both sides here. The pro Israeli at first thought "oh he is a supporter too, oh wait…" Ditto for the anti.

On some issues there is no middle of the road and when you look at the behaviour of Israel. It's impossible to reconcile that if you believe in freedom, democracy & human rights. You also seem to be confusing anti-Zionist with anti-Israeli. Most rationale thinking people with an interest in true freedom and democracy would tend to be anti-Zionist like myself. Those who are pro-zionist tend to be the same kind of ilk that would support the likes of the former Terre'Blanche and his mantra of hate & apartheid. In fact most far right zealots really share the same mantra the world over.

golfball37

No matter the rights and wrongs how anyone could ever condone murdering two parents in front of their children is beyond me.
For the record I believe the settlements to be illegal and morally wrong but it's some leap to justify what happened.

Dan_Solo

Kaiser Sosay wrote: »

You also seem to be confusing anti-Zionist with anti-Israeli.

Chapter 1, page 1, line 1 of the Zionist propaganda handbook: "Anti-Zionist = Anti-Semitist".
What's worse is they really believe it still works (outside of Fox News).

Cienciano

FTA69 wrote: »

I drove past an Israeli settlement in the West Bank once. They tend to be situated on high ground and the crest of hills, overlooking Palestinian villages. One of the first things to strike me was the overpowering stink of human sh*t that you get when driving around them on the Palestinian roads as he settlements tend to pump untreated effluent down into the Palestinian lands below them. Luckily for the settlers hey don't have to deal with this as they have Israeli-only roads which Arabs are banned from driving on. On top of this, Palestinians generally get water only on one day a week and are forced to fill up tanks on the roof, settlements tend to have complex watering systems and often swimming pools with 24 hour running water courtesy of illegally stealing water from the aquifer below.

Can you imagine the utter rage you would feel living in this situation every day? Watching your country being slowly colonised by a bunch of Americans and Russians?

It's like constantly poking a dog with a stick and when he finally bites you get him put down

Wibbs

MJI wrote: »

What they are doing to the Palestinians is far worse than what was allegedly done to them in Germany in the 40's

Da fuq? Missed this part. Get a clue FFS.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Do you similarly admire the Nazis killing millions of Jews because, you know, genocide has happened fairly regularly in history and is therefore pretty much to be expected?

Actually genocide has happened rarely enough in history, systemic industrialised genocide has only happened the once pretty much. Do I admire the Nazis? No, though I am impressed by them at times. The germans turned around the economic basket case of Europe in a remarkably short time. As a fighting force they were one of the most lethal and successful in history. Their innovation in weapons systems at that time was mightily impressive.

Kaiser Sosay wrote:

You also seem to be confusing anti-Zionist with anti-Israeli.

Nope, you're confused there. In any event without zionism there wouldn't even be a modern Israel.

Most rationale thinking people with an interest in true freedom and democracy would tend to be anti-Zionist like myself.

Hahahahaha… oh wait, you're serious. I have oft found it interesting that your "rationale"[sic] liberal who despises Israel/Zionism reckons that that neck of the woods would be better under a culture that has a dark ages attitudes to women, crime and punishment, democracy and general human rights.

Nodin

Wibbs wrote: »

Hahahahaha… oh wait, you're serious. I have oft found it interesting that your "rationale"[sic] liberal who despises Israel/Zionism reckons that that neck of the woods would be better under a culture that has a dark ages attitudes to women, crime and punishment, democracy and general human rights.

Where did he say that?

Wibbs

Nodin wrote: »

Where did he say that?

He/she's anti Zionist, which by definition means he/she's anti Israel as a state and if said state wasn't there who would be running the area? That would be the Palestinians/Arabs.

hatrickpatrick

Wibbs wrote: »

He/she's anti Zionist, which by definition means he/she's anti Israel as a state

That's like saying that an anti-feminist is automatically anti-equality. Zionism no longer simply refers to the pursuit of a Jewish homeland, which they have. Zionism as it is currently practised refers to a belief that Israel has the right to expand that homeland through military force, regardless of how many civilians they displace in the process.

Wibbs

They've been expanding that homeland since the very first day of the foundation of the state of Israel. The very state itself was foisted on the area by the world powers after WW2. The same world powers that largely ignored the cries of Jews before WW2, but that's another story.

Nodin

Wibbs wrote: »

He/she's anti Zionist, which by definition means he/she's anti Israel as a state and if said state wasn't there who would be running the area? That would be the Palestinians/Arabs.

A bit of a stretch, to put it mildly - to oppose one thing is not neccessiraly supporting another.

In addition, the Palestinians are (relatively) moderate religiously and have a long left wing and Marxist tradition. Suddenly equating all of them with "a culture that has a dark ages attitudes to women, crime and punishment, democracy and general human rights. " is more than a bit much. Considering the way the Israelis deal with occupied Palestinian's in regard in to "crime and punishment, democracy and general human rights" its also rather condescending and sad.

hatrickpatrick

Nodin wrote: »

You could watch the all-Ireland cattle raiding final on RTE......

You realise we made it through 8 pages without that being brought up :mad:

Dan_Solo

Wibbs wrote: »

They've been expanding that homeland since the very first day of the foundation of the state of Israel. The very state itself was foisted on the area by the world powers after WW2. The same world powers that largely ignored the cries of Jews before WW2, but that's another big fat steaming pile of Zionist apologism whataboutery.

FTFY.
So what if they've been expanding their borders for ages now? Children have been raped since the dawn of time so I suppose you support that too? It's history, right?

hatrickpatrick

Wibbs wrote: »

They've been expanding that homeland since the very first day of the foundation of the state of Israel. The very state itself was foisted on the area by the world powers after WW2. The same world powers that largely ignored the cries of Jews before WW2, but that's another story.

And again, that makes it ok?

If I'm given a patch of land by Dublin City Council to live on and I then have a family which is bigger than that land can comfortably support, it's ok for me to take a gun, march my neighbour and his family out of their house, knock down my garden fence and turn the two gaffs into one massive one, leaving the neighbour's family homeless on the side of the street - and then threatening to shoot them if they have the temerity to get pissed off about it?

Everyone defending settlements is saying things along the lines of "The Israelis needed the space". Well tough sh!t. Most of us need a lot of things, but we don't steal them violently from nearby strangers.

RobertKK

No

Before Israel built the security wall, who would have wanted to go to Israel, use public transport that was getting blown up regularly with suicide bombers, dine in a restaurant which were being blown up by suicide bombers.
Not to mention the tunnels that Hamas built, loads of money for properly built concrete tunnels which they used to commit terrorism.

if Hamas had used their resources to help the Palestinian people rather than wasting it on war against Israel, they would save countless Palestinian lives. Hamas know what they are doing, like their suicide bombers, they see the population and their lives as dispensable and good propaganda when they create conditions for Gaza to be attacked.

Fed up of all the sympathy for Gaza as if they are innocent, it is awful for the decent people, but if you put troublemakers in power with a history of terrorism and no regard for life, the subsequent consequences are to be expected.

Irish Praetorian

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why are you lying and pretending Israelis come from other ME countries? What agenda does that lie serve I wonder?

Just to pick up on this little point, perhaps because its the truth? If my memory of Israeli census figures serves me well, just over all of all Jews in Israel are Mizrahi, essentially meaning they have ancestry from across the Muslim world.

Nodin

RobertKK wrote: »

Before Israel built (...........)are to be expected.

What have Hamas and Gaza go to do with something to do with what happened in the West Bank? Or did you drag it in to yammer on about suicide bombers?

Dan_Solo

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Just to pick up on this little point, perhaps because its the truth? If my memory of Israeli census figures serves me well, just over all of all Jews in Israel are Mizrahi, essentially meaning they have ancestry from across the Muslim world.

Nah, it's a lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
12% of Israelis are from the entirety of Asia, where you claim the were expelled by Muslims. You just made that up and got nailed on it. Sorry.
Or can I claim any spot I like between East Africa, India and Ireland because my ancestors lived there at some stage? Is that your "point"?

Dan_Solo

RobertKK wrote: »

if Hamas had used their resources to help the Palestinian people

Ah yes, if you don't fight against Israelis stealing your land then they'll stop stealing your land.
Well disproven bollix at this stage.

RobertKK

No

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah yes, if you don't fight against Israelis stealing your land then they'll stop stealing your land.
Well disproven bollix at this stage.

Ok how has that Hamas policy worked out so far?

How many acres or hectares of land have they gotten back? I want figures.

RobertKK

No

Nodin wrote: »

What have Hamas and Gaza go to do with something to do with what happened in the West Bank? Or did you drag it in to yammer on about suicide bombers?

It was my first post and I was answering the poll question which mentioned nothing about the West Bank.
I was not responding to anything else.

Dan_Solo

RobertKK wrote: »

Ok how has that Hamas policy worked out so far?

How many acres or hectares of land have they gotten back? I want figures.

You might be better asking why they need to fight to get land back in the first place? Or how much more of their land would be stolen by now if they weren't fighting back?

RustyNut

RobertKK wrote: »

Ok how has that Hamas policy worked out so far?

How many acres or hectares of land have they gotten back? I want figures.

You do agree that it is rightfully theirs in the first place tho?

Most thieves don't give up their stolen property without a fight.

Wibbs

Dan_Solo wrote: »

FTFY.

No that's actual history. I know this can cause your neoliberals some issues, but it is and there's you claiming you understood the history of this period.

So what if they've been expanding their borders for ages now? Children have been raped since the dawn of time so I suppose you support that too? It's history, right?

:pac: Ah man, I do so love your neoliberal. Let's up the feels by throwing in child rape in a comparisons. Child rape FFS. Common or garden adult rape not emotive enough for you? you couldn't make it up.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If I'm given a patch of land by Dublin City Council to live on and I then have a family which is bigger than that land can comfortably support, it's ok for me to take a gun, march my neighbour and his family out of their house, knock down my garden fence and turn the two gaffs into one massive one, leaving the neighbour's family homeless on the side of the street - and then threatening to shoot them if they have the temerity to get pissed off about it?

Actually if you look at the early days of the Israeli state it would be more along the lines of DCC grudgingly give you and your family some land to live on and the moment your through the gate the neighbours- and lots of them - march over to try and throw you out. You and your family fight back and put the fence back up, in some places adding to your land, in others not. Then you and the neighbours chill out when the Guards and DCC show up, only for it to kick off again time and time again for decades.

Dan_Solo

Wibbs wrote: »

No that's actual history.

Nobody said it wasn't history. The problem is it isn't relevant. Do you know the difference?

Wibbs wrote: »

:pac: Ah man, I do so love your neoliberal. Let's up the feels by throwing in child rape in a comparisons. Child rape FFS. Common or garden adult rape not emotive enough for you? you couldn't make it up.

So in other words you flat out can't defend your "it happened it's OK" defence of Zionist expansionism, racism and ethnic cleansing. Fair enough. You could have just said you don't give a **** about anything on earth so long as the Israelis get to steal whatever they want instead of getting into this history owes them, it's been going on forever etc bollix.
You also might want to look up neoliberal. The word is obviously new to you and you're not actually making yourself look as clever as you think trying to show it off.

Nodin

RobertKK wrote: »

It was my first post and I was answering the poll question which mentioned nothing about the West Bank.
I was not responding to anything else.

The question in the poll is ridiculous when you put the casualties side by side. Theres years the IDF have lost more due to suicide than Palestinian attack, afaik.

Dan_Solo

Nodin wrote: »

The question in the poll is ridiculous when you put the casualties side by side. Theres years the IDF have lost more due to suicide than Palestinian attack, afaik.

The headline "Couple with six children killed in Palestine" is no accident either. Any normal usage of the English language would be "Couple who have six children killed in Palestine". Or "Parents of six children killed in Palestine".
When you run it through the propaganda machine though, best to suggest the children were killed too though, right?

Barely There

Always amazed how long an anti-Israel circle-jerk is able to keep itself going on Boards as posters try to outdo each other with hilariously simplistic outrage.

Right on.

Snake Plisken

No

RobertKK wrote: »

It was my first post and I was answering the poll question which mentioned nothing about the West Bank.
I was not responding to anything else.

Don't mind Nodin he pulled the same crap with me, both you and I responded to the original post, but he doesn't want to listen.