Couple with six children killed in Palestine

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's a stabiliser in the region now.
The now is obviously implied because we live now.

And I haven't stopped signing Syrias praises. It's a better option for Europe and the Middle East as a stable dictatorship than the failed state the likudnists want, ( which is probably better for Israel which is why you support it).

The existing dictatorship is also much better than the alternative for its Christian, secular and other minorities. I'd prefer saddam was there too. A fiend of mines Christian family was safe under saddam and dead now. But as long as it's "good for Israel" you Zionist fetishers are happy.

The girl Conor. Why was she definitely a terrorist? Where's the picture of her holding the knife.

I'm lolling at how you praised a regime that murdered tens of thousands of its own civilians as a beacon of stability, while feigning outrage about some questions surrounding the death of one terrorist at the hands of Israeli forces.

But as I said, I welcome your u turn and your claim now that Syria is no better than Israel. I disagree with that comparison myself, a despotic regime v a democracy, but if you accept it then that's a good concession.

KingBrian2

The region needs greater security and groups like ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and other religious zealots have to be shown they have no place in a civilised society. Sectarianism in all its forms be it extreme Zionism or Islamism is not healthy to the region and only provokes aggression and outrage. Assad and Netanyahu are only protecting their people from violent thugs and warmongers.

130Kph

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yes, it did upset many Arab states that a European colonial project that expelled hundreds of thousands of people was succeeding. You expect them to be doing cart wheels over it?

OK <frustration building @ this sentiment for decades>

if one is going to be pro-Palestine then the one stance on this issue that has zero credibility is prattling on about reversing the ’67 Occupation of Gaza/West Bank and then the crisis will supposedly be mostly over.

Sorry lads/ladies, that is a pile of airy-fairy disingenuous bull.

Let me explain….

If you have the courage of your convictions you should be out there working towards expelling the Euro/Russian/American/N.African colonists (descendents) back out of the entire region – because whining on incessantly about this issue from the safety & comfort of Ireland isn’t worth a damn.

It has Zero credibility.

For those calling for an end to the occupation as the solution:- What moral authority had Britain OR the nascent UN in 1946 or 1947 to just by fiat ‘grant’ a settler state against the wishes of the people living there for centuries (putting aside the Holocaust for sake of arguement)?

And most of the trendy leftist take on this issue accepts the 1949 armistace border.

OH - DO YOU NOW???-

I’m afraid this angle is too convenient for your carefully crafted post ’67 colonist argument.

So Irish pro-Palestinians accept the right of Britain & the UN to just magic up Israel out of thin air in 1947 AND you accept the armistice line of 1949 (a pretty big land grab by any standard) and all you want to do now is get back to that 1949 line.

What a bunch of twisted self-serving arse-over-tit crap :rolleyes:

Sorry lads. If you’re going to shout racist, Zionist, colonist, occupier then you’re going to have to stand up to the plate – i.e. not easy armchair words but ………

ACTION, show your convictions.

Prove this is not just another right-on intellectual bandwagon.

PROVE IT.

Drop the too-easy crap about boycotts etc etc and go fight. Go join Hamas, Hezbollah (or go out there and help start a new inclusive/militant or civil group) and prove your convictions are genuine.

That’s what will impress people and show you are serious.

At the very very very minimum donate €10,000 every year from your income (or 20% of net income pa whichever is greater) to Palestine groups (no questions asked).

Otherwise, you all come across as non-credible 16 year old walter mitty dilettantes.

Wibbs

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A few posts ago you said there were very few genocides in history. The scots didn't kill the Picts. They merged kingdoms. In fact some scholars think the western inhabitants of what is now Scotland was always indigenous but influenced by gaelic culture from north eastern Ireland - the kingdom of dal riatha.

Ah yes, the "merging" of kingdoms. Bit of double speak there. You do realise that the very word Gael was a byword for slaver at the time? How do you think a certain early christian Patrick make it here? To give credit where credit is due we as a culture were very quick to get rid of the slavery thing.

In the end the ME is a clusterfcuk of monumental proportions. One largely kicked off by 19th century European meddling in that neck of the woods and divvying up of the spoils of empire. The Arabs have been well fcuked over by the Europeans, almost as much as the Jews had been. Well Jewish folks were in our midst so easier targets, always the boogyman, the scapegoat going right back. The "Yids killed our saviour" being the kickoff.

Even before that the Italians had levelled the place and scattered the people to the winds. Consider the Wailing Wall, one of the holiest places in their faith and "holy" in historical terms too. The Italians levelled Jerusalem in the 70's AD, so that's pretty much all that's left of the larger structures and the temple. And they did all that destruction before gunpowder and heavy machinery. After that banned Jews from even entering their own bloody city. When Rome went all Christian it relented a bit and "allowed" them to worship, but not live in the city. Jaysus, thanks lads. The later Muslims were far more accommodating on this score and welcomed Jews back into the city. I find it ironic that it's now the "christian" nations who support Jewish interests more.

130Kph wrote:

Otherwise, you all come across as non-credible 16 year old walter mitty dilettantes.

Hello. And welcome to the internets.

Though as I have said I personally believe in the idea of the state of Israel. They've pretty much earned it at this stage and by god/spaghetti monster they've earned it since. The idea is sound, the implementation? Meehhhhh not so much. They have too much of that Shankill road stylee sense of siege mentality. Now it is understandable, as I say they've been fcuked over as a group of people for over two thousand years which will tend to make you just a tad para in fairness.


*aside* to give Ireland its due and before the mossad shills show up to tell us about how so very bad we are, we didn't buy into that nearly so much as the rest of Europe. Irish Jews have been small in number, but have had an impact on Irish society well beyond those numbers. A Jewish lad was elected mayor of Youghal, an important port, back in the 15th century. Try finding similar in mainland Europe at the time. What is oft forgotten is Daniel O'Connell also worked for the liberation of Jews as well as Catholics. The repeal of the English law that required Jews to wear yellow was largely accomplished by Irishmen. The Limerick pogrom? Kicked off by a local priest who went nuts, no one died and those Irish Jews who chose to leave were given shelter in places like Cork, to the degree that many stayed rather than feck off to America. Compare that to many areas of Europe where pogroms and murderous pogroms where whole villages were burnt out was a national and annual sport. When that Austrian corporal came to power he found scant resistance as far as his "solution" to the "Jewish question" went in France, Greece, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, etc, etc.

KingBrian2

Someone brought up a good point about Hamas a vote for them is a vote of resumption of armed conflict. The Palestinians in the West Bank do not want to continue fighting old conflicts. The situation is comparable to the Kurdish story of fighting for self determination.

It was a bit strange of the US to support the formation of a nascent Kurdish partial-state in Iraq given that Turkey which was opposed to the Iraq war would have to concede territory to an ever expanding state that would also encompass Syria and Iran.

Rash decision-making essentially acting as a biased actor in the region. We have statelets competing for authority in a combustible neighbourhood. The people deserve what they are calling for self-determination damn it lets give it to them.

Herpes Cineplex

Deleted User wrote: »

It evidently upsets those Arab nations that Israel has not only survived, but prospered, and crushes them any time they have engaged in sabre rattling or commenced military action.

Any nation that has prospered via ethnic cleansing and murdering thousands of Palestinians throughout its existence. Is bound to draw the ire of the civilised world, never mind the Arab nations.

Herpes Cineplex

Herpes Cineplex wrote: »

Any nation that has prospered via ethnic cleansing and murdering thousands of Palestinians throughout its existence. Is bound to draw the ire of the civilised world, never mind the Arab nations.

There is no doubt but that Israel has killed thousands. It's a fraction of what their neighbours do in that part of the world, but it's objectionable.

But ethnic cleansing? You surely know that over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel? If they are, as you allege, ethnic cleansing, they're doing a very bad job of it.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no doubt but that Israel has killed thousands. It's a fraction of what their neighbours do in that part of the world, but it's objectionable.

But ethnic cleansing? You surely know that over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel? If they are, as you allege, ethnic cleansing, they're doing a very bad job of it.

You might not believe me, but each major Israeli party states that it will maintain "the majority". That, in plain speaking, means they aren't going to incorporate the Palestinians with their land.

They've managed to grab vast swathes of the west bank while keeping Israeli settlements arab free. The reason they don't annex the whole thing is due to the fact they would then be landed with the Palestinian population. Taking patches of land, making life impossible for people and the odd expulsion allows them to do a great deal across a good period of time. You get the same result as 1947/48 but without creating hordes of refugees overnight. Slow drip ethnic cleansing.

Putin

Deleted User wrote: »

But ethnic cleansing? You surely know that over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel? If they are, as you allege, ethnic cleansing, they're doing a very bad job of it.

Surely you do realise that Israel is a gerrymandered state? It's very existence is based upon that. If it allowed the arabs it drove of their land to return and vote, we would have had a state of Palestine long ago.

130Kph

Nodin wrote: »

They've managed to grab vast swathes of the west bank while keeping Israeli settlements arab free.

Standard Nodineske waffle :rolleyes::rolleyes:

And you sit on your hole here watching X-Factor & feirm factor.

Some Palestinian hero you are :eek::o

If you actually gave a sh1t, you would take action.

But alas you don’t.

Putin

Putin wrote: »

Surely you do realise that Israel is a gerrymandered state? It's very existence is based upon that. If it allowed the arabs it drove of their land to return and vote, we would have had a state of Palestine long ago.

You do know that gerrymandering and ethnic cleansing are not one and the same?

If you are to accuse Israel of ethnic cleansing, you have to do a lot better than suggest it is guilty of gerrymandering.

Putin

Deleted User wrote: »

You do know that gerrymandering and ethnic cleansing are not one and the same?

If you are to accuse Israel of ethnic cleansing, you have to do a lot better than suggest it is guilty of gerrymandering.

Eh? I said nowhere in my last post that both were the same. But your time wasting aside, I'll help you with your difficulties.

When you drive people from their land and then deny a right of return. Not only have ethnically cleansed a popuation, but you have also created a gerrymanderd state through the creation of a false majority. It is a double win for an oppresser like Israel. The ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land created a gerrymandered state with an artificial majority. Is that any clearer now? Because I don't think I can break it down any more than that tbh.

Nodin

130Kph wrote: »

Standard (..............)action.

But alas you don’t.

You seem angry.

Putin

Putin wrote: »

Eh? I said nowhere in my last post that both were the same. But your time wasting aside, I'll help you with your difficulties.

When you drive people from their land and then deny a right of return. Not only have ethnically cleansed a popuation, but you have also created a gerrymanderd state through the creation of a false majority. It is a double win for an oppresser like Israel. The ethnic cleansing of Palestinian land created a gerrymandered state with an artificial majority. Is that any clearer now? Because I don't think I can break it down any more than that tbh.

You sem angry. That whole silly "oh I'll make it simple for you" stuff.

Ethnic cleansing and gerrymandering are not really one and the same accusation at all. You still have to back up your accusation in relation to the former. If gerrymandering really was evidence of ethnic cleansing, every political party here would be up for war crimes. "Is that any clearer now", "can I break it down any more to help you understand" etc etc etc.

Zebra3

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no doubt but that Israel has killed thousands. It's a fraction of what their neighbours do in that part of the world, but it's objectionable.

But ethnic cleansing? You surely know that over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel? If they are, as you allege, ethnic cleansing, they're doing a very bad job of it.

Common enough claim by either propagandists or the uneducated.

There is no denying Zionist terrorists have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes.

Not all were ethnically cleansed however as the terrorists in 1948-49 were worried about expelling the natives from the Galilee (area around Nazareth) because of what the reaction among influential US christians may be. And as with most populations in the intervening decades, theirs has grown.

And your claim that Israel is doing a bad job of the ethnic cleansing? Yeah, plenty of judeo-fascists would see it like that.

Are you actually denying all the expulsions and house demolitions and land theft carried out by Israel?

speedboatchase

No

Here are my hopefully not controversial views on this entire issue. By the way, everyone should condemn these attacks, and conversely, condemn when the opposite happens to Palestinians. If you're victim-blaming or trying to justify murder, you're pretty far gone:

Israel has a right to exist, and to protect its people through Iron Dome etc - reactionary measures. Palestine has a right to exist, and deserves to live under much, much better conditions. The illegal settlement building has to stop, and the Israeli bulldozing of housing is cruel and provocative.

Right now both sides have extremist leaders and an electorate who don't want to bargain with one another. I think that's more of an issue on the Palestinian side - who wants to be the Palestinian leader who reached a historic agreement with Netanyahu? I think Arafat walked away from one hell of a deal at Camp David for a similar reason - your name will likely be blackened by history by Palestinians with extreme views.

A two-state solution seems further away than ever but that is still the only peaceful way this will ever resolve. Hamas aren't going anywhere (when was the last election, lads?) and have no idea how to govern - they need to lose wars to keep people under control and desperate - and Netanyahu isn't going anywhere.

By the way, why does Sis get a free pass here and everywhere else over his treatment of Palestinians on the opposite side?

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Common enough claim by either propagandists or the uneducated.

Upsets the hysterical.

130Kph

Nodin wrote: »

.......You get the same result as 1947/48 but without creating hordes of refugees overnight. Slow drip ethnic cleansing.

Yet you support the ’49 armistice line: that makes you a Zionist, racist, colonist supporter.

The exact things you claim to passionately oppose.

Such delusional hypocrisy.

Nodin

130Kph wrote: »

Yet you support the ’49 armistice line: that makes you a Zionist, racist, colonist supporter.

The exact things you claim to passionately oppose.

Such delusional hypocrisy.

Drawing an arbitrary line and accusing me of having crossed it - amusing.

Zebra3

speedboatchase wrote: »

Israel has a right to exist

Why is that?

Why are you legitimising a colonial project built through ethnic cleansing and land theft?

Who are you to say that those who have had their homes stolen cannot get them and their homeland back?

Why are you promoting those crimes as some sort of acceptable moral acts?

Nodin

speedboatchase wrote: »

Here are my hopefully not controversial views on this entire issue. By the way, everyone should condemn these attacks, and conversely, condemn when the opposite happens to Palestinians. If you're victim-blaming or trying to justify murder, you're pretty far gone:

Israel has a right to exist, and to protect its people through Iron Dome etc - reactionary measures. Palestine has a right to exist, and deserves to live under much, much better conditions. The illegal settlement building has to stop, and the Israeli bulldozing of housing is cruel and provocative.

Right now both sides have extremist leaders and an electorate who don't want to bargain with one another. I think that's more of an issue on the Palestinian side - who wants to be the Palestinian leader who reached a historic agreement with Netanyahu? I think Arafat walked away from one hell of a deal at Camp David for a similar reason - your name will likely be blackened by history by Palestinians with extreme views.

A two-state solution seems further away than ever but that is still the only peaceful way this will ever resolve. Hamas aren't going anywhere (when was the last election, lads?) and have no idea how to govern - they need to lose wars to keep people under control and desperate - and Netanyahu isn't going anywhere.

By the way, why does Sis get a free pass here and everywhere else over his treatment of Palestinians on the opposite side?

It's a tribute to the propaganda of one side in particular that I have to point out multiple times that Hamas are not the Palestinian government, or the largest Palestinian body.

130Kph

Nodin wrote: »

Drawing an arbitrary line and accusing me of having crossed it - amusing.

Not so – unless your previous comments on this issue were time-period-cherry-picking, inconsistent shyte.

You’ve clearly said before that if Israel leaves the occupied territories your problem with Israel would largely be resolved (if you want a link, look up your post history).

Amusing indeed :rolleyes:

Nodin

130Kph wrote: »

Not so – unless your previous comments on this issue were time-period-cherry-picking, inconsistent shyte.

You’ve clearly said before that if Israel leaves the occupied territories your problem with Israel would largely be resolved (if you want a link, look up your post history).

I'm fully aware of what I've said, and the explanation given for it. You saying that constitutes hypocrisy is the funny bit.

130Kph

Nodin wrote: »

I'm fully aware of what I've said, and the explanation given for it. You saying that constitutes hypocrisy is the funny bit.

It’s a perfectly reasonable position (aka bleeding obvious) for anyone to call for the end of the ’67 occupation.

But you are the one using language such as “aggressive, Zionist, colonist….(plus much more extreme. emotive, hysterical rhetoric & to be frank mostly tinfoil ass hattery)” to describe Israel’s occupation or policy.

The fact that you can’t see the hypocrisy of your musings when comparing one type of Zionist land grab to a second – while using the frenzied rhetoric that you use – is indeed amusing.

Here’s a simple example to clarify:-
Diplomat language: these actions go against international law and must be reversed.

Nodin: so you expect Palestinians to bend over and be f*cked up the arse by Zionist aggressors.

Such hysterical, mind-numbing, rabble rousing, gombeen, shyte.

Decent Palestinians need the likes of you (& the rest of your ilk of Che Guevara spoofers) like a hole in the head.

KingBrian2

speedboatchase wrote: »

By the way, why does Sis get a free pass here and everywhere else over his treatment of Palestinians on the opposite side?

He is not he is coming under extensive hostility by those that want him to allow the Muslim Brotherhood to have a voice in Egyptian society. It was the Muslim Brotherhood that assassinated the Egyptian president that signed a peace deal with the Israeli's, likewise with Syria a Kurd peace deal was on offer with Turkey before the wars and violence resumed. The peacemakers are all getting killed by the extremists.

Zebra3

https://twitter.com/afp/status/650675137247866880

The great democracy of Israel in action.

KingBrian2

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/afp/status/650675137247866880

The great democracy of Israel in action.

That image is totally out of context. Is it taking place in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv! Totally different setting, was he trying to stir something up or did the riot police behave irresponsible but simple flashing a picture is not going to convince people. Riots are routine in Athens are we to say Greece is a dictatorship, no because they just had an election, does Greece have an issue with policing unruly mobs, they sure do.

Dan_Solo

130Kph wrote: »

Decent Palestinians need the likes of you (& the rest of your ilk of Che Guevara spoofers) like a hole in the head.

Whereas with the "support" of Zionist apologists and ethnic cleansing fans like you, they literally will get that hole in the head.

Mal-Adjusted

Iv'e been as critical of Israels apartheid regime as anybody else, but to be fair, murder is still murder.

Nodin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That image is totally out of context. Is it taking place in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv! Totally different setting, was he trying to stir something up or did the riot police behave irresponsible but simple flashing a picture is not going to convince people. Riots are routine in Athens are we to say Greece is a dictatorship, no because they just had an election, does Greece have an issue with policing unruly mobs, they sure do.

Well we could always refer to the kid in school uniform they shot today, or anyone of the thousands of previous incidents of violence and brutality used to maintain the occupation.