Couple with six children killed in Palestine

wes

speedboatchase wrote: »

Israel is a country where the media can present two sides of an argument.

That is nice and all, but that doesn't change the "facts on the ground" that every single Israeli government since 1967 have expanded settlements. A free press hasn't done a whole lot to change that.

Zebra3

speedboatchase wrote: »

Israel is a country where the media can present two sides of an argument.

This is so true.

Absolutely.

Israel IS a country where the media CAN present two sides of an argument.

But the reality it is that the Israeli media very rarely does. It rows in behind the extremists on the streets and in government. It backs apartheid, the breaking of international law, and war crimes.

That's the worst part. The Israeli media HAS the freedom to present the truth, but rarely does. Free press wasted.

Nodin

Zebra3 wrote: »

This is so true.

Absolutely.

Israel IS a country where the media CAN present two sides of an argument.

But the reality it is that the Israeli media very rarely does. It rows in behind the extremists on the streets and in government. It backs apartheid, the breaking of international law, and war crimes.

That's the worst part. The Israeli media HAS the freedom to present the truth, but rarely does. Free press wasted.

You can generally write what you want, but the military have veto on all video footage shot in the occupied territories, afaik. Having watched the Americans in Vietnam they realised the power of the image, and in particular film, on public opinion. A sad comment on human nature that a description lacks the same weight as a picture but there ye are.

DarkyHughes

mad muffin wrote: »

You say potato the UN says potato. But the whole world (except for the terrorists) agrees the couple was murdered in cold blood and their kids had a lucky escape but will remain orphans.

The UN can say what it likes, the Geneva conventions makes it clear Israel committed war crimes? .

In August a Israeli settler burnt alive a 18 month old Palestinian, how come your not outraged over that, how come you never made a thread about that? You racist hypocrite.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/palestinian-baby-burned-death-extremist-attack-150731035331224.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/death-18-month-old-in-arson-attack-heightens-tensions-west-bank-israel

The slumbering Dawabsheh family never stood a chance when a pair of arsonists crept into their home in a village in the West Bank in the early hours of Friday. A smashed window, a flaming molotov cocktail, a whoosh of fire and piercing screams followed.

Within minutes, the parents had crawled from the house with life-threatening third degree burns covering most of their bodies. Inside, four-year-old Ahmad was shrieking in fear and pain; his infant brother, Ali, just 18 months old, was dead or dying, his body burned beyond recognition.

That's what all this is when it comes down to it is racism. It was the same in Korea, the same in Vietnam & the same today. Palestinians are viewed as savage, emotionless untermensch who have to be liquidated.

Billy86

mad muffin wrote: »

AH doesn't seem to care… not surprising really.

But if a Palestinian stubs his toes… woe-betide Israel, for the wrath of AH will be fierce and the thread will go on for hundreds of pages. :cool:

This reminds me of how up in arms everyone was when a Christian fundamentalist with over 9,000 followers plotted to burn down an Islamic village in New York earlier this year. AH went BONKERS over it!

Apart from the part where AH completely ignored it.

KingBrian2

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Israeli troops are there to destroy Palestinian lives. To harass the native people, to smash their homes, enforce apartheid, and to make life as easy as possible for all those Israeli land grabbers who are living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as criminals under international law.

A simplistic narrative that totally ignores the Israeli side of the argument. As has been recounted on numerous occasions by Israeli officials their are Palestinians that oppose peace with Israel and regard Israel as a purely Jewish entity. Mind you even today with talk of another Intifada you can clearly see the Saudi Arabian flag being waved by anti Semitic and anti Zionistic Palestinians.

tayto lover

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A simplistic narrative that totally ignores the Israeli side of the argument. As has been recounted on numerous occasions by Israeli officials their are Palestinians that oppose peace with Israel and regard Israel as a purely Jewish entity. Mind you even today with talk of another Intifada you can clearly see the Saudi Arabian flag being waved by anti Semitic and anti Zionistic Palestinians.

I'd rather have someone wave a flag at me than blow my entire city apart as happened last summer. Indiscriminate murder.

Dan_Solo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

anti Zionistic Palestinians.

Er, why dafuque wouldn't a Palestinian be anti-Zionist? Steal my country, bomb my sleeping children... complain and you're an anti-Semite, yeah?

KingBrian2

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Er, why dafuque wouldn't a Palestinian be anti-Zionist? Steal my country, bomb my sleeping children... complain and you're an anti-Semite, yeah?

This is the dribble of the rejectionist front that opposes even negotiations with Israel. If you believe Israel is killing Palestinian children just for the sake of it your incredible biased. Most underage children of fighting age are brainwashed and being used to vent anti Israel diatribes on the streets of Palestinian towns. Hamas indoctrinated them to dance after 9/11.

Zebra3

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A simplistic narrative that totally ignores the Israeli side of the argument. As has been recounted on numerous occasions by Israeli officials their are Palestinians that oppose peace with Israel and regard Israel as a purely Jewish entity. Mind you even today with talk of another Intifada you can clearly see the Saudi Arabian flag being waved by anti Semitic and anti Zionistic Palestinians.

What Israeli side of the argument?

The Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

The Israeli occupation of the West Bank?

The Israeli blockade of Gaza?

The Israeli expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians from what is now Israel?

All justified cos somebody is flying the flag of Saudi Arabia? A country which the Mossad actually works with?

The Israeli side of the argument is this:

We came from Europe to steal your land, something something God gave the land to us, p1ss off or we'll demolish your home or kill you.

Or both.

Dan_Solo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

This is the dribble of the rejectionist front that opposes even negotiations with Israel. If you believe Israel is killing Palestinian children just for the sake of it your incredible biased. Most underage children of fighting age are brainwashed and being used to vent anti Israel diatribes on the streets of Palestinian towns. Hamas indoctrinated them to dance after 9/11.

That makes zero sense, as usual. How could anybody be "indoctrinated to dance after 9/11" unless they knew it was about to happen? You're telling us Hamas knew about 9/11? Laughable.
Also, you'll find the side that rejects negotiations every last time is Israel itself. "We'll negotiate with you if you agree to all our demands first... settlements stay, you'll never be a country, etc etc"
Maybe Israel only kills children to clear the land for Zionist settlers and don't actually want to kill them at all? They're forced to for economic reasons, yeah?

tayto lover

KingBrian2 wrote: »

This is the dribble of the rejectionist front that opposes even negotiations with Israel. If you believe Israel is killing Palestinian children just for the sake of it your incredible biased. Most underage children of fighting age are brainwashed and being used to vent anti Israel diatribes on the streets of Palestinian towns. Hamas indoctrinated them to dance after 9/11.

What a load of claptrap.

Dan_Solo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

As has been recounted on numerous occasions by Israeli officials their are Palestinians that oppose peace with Israel and regard Israel as a purely Jewish entity.

Israeli declaration of independence:

ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

Now where on earth did those silly Palestinians get the barmy idea that Israel is a Jewish entity I wonder? Crazy talk!

Zebra3

^^^Yeah, it's actually one of Israel's conditions that they want the Palestinians to recognise Israel as a jewish state.

(This would be seen by Israel as refusing to accept refugees right to return to their stolen homes).

It is one that Palestinians (obviously) refuse to.

Some people on here just haven't got a clue.

Billy86

I hate to say it, but I've had a feeling for a long while that the Holocaust will repeat itself in some shape or form. It may not be for a long, long time when we are all long dead, but as soon as Israel loses US backing or the American Empire begins to fall, the rest of the Middle East will absolutely feat on the corpse of the nation of Israel. What is most amazing though, is just how much Israel themselves seem to be goading on a potential situation just like this with their consistently reprehensible and disgusting actions.

beerpong

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

T

I heard and saw a lot of people – both on the streets of Dublin and on sites like this – condemn Israeli actions in Gaza last year, and the innocent people caught up in it. I never – and I did stop to ask them – heard any of them talk about Israeli fears of Palestinian violence.

After this, a question needs to be asked.

Are Israelis fears of Palestinian violence justified?

https://twitter.com/EVKontorovich/status/649816393395867648

Israel fears are contrived propaganda to excuse land theft and ethnic cleansing.
To quote Chomsky:

“The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.

"The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can’t defend yourself when you’re militarily occupying someone else’s land. That’s not defense. Call it what you like, it’s not defense.”

Zebra3

Billy86 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but I've had a feeling for a long while that the Holocaust will repeat itself in some shape or form. It may not be for a long, long time when we are all long dead, but as soon as Israel loses US backing or the American Empire begins to fall, the rest of the Middle East will absolutely feat on the corpse of the nation of Israel. What is most amazing though, is just how much Israel themselves seem to be goading on a potential situation just like this with their consistently reprehensible and disgusting actions.

The Holocaust? You mean the Nazi Holocaust, right? There's been loads of holocausts.

Anyway Israel is armed to the teeth with hundreds of nuclear weapons which strangely doesn't make the news the same way another Middle Eastern state's alleged nuclear programme does. Nobody will be feasting on Israel's corpse. If Israel collapses, it will be from within.

But I agree with your point on Israel goading others. They don't give a toss about who they offend or who they murder, they see themselves as some sort of master race. I suppose that's a legacy of a colonial/settler project. Nasty supremacism.

BlaasForRafa

beerpong wrote: »

"The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

If that's the case then it's the least efficient ethnic cleansing EVER. If the Israeli's are trying to cleanse Gaza of Palestinians then they're doing a really lousy job of it. The population of Gaza is rocketing upwards, it even increased DURING the last outbreak of conflict there last year.

Chomsky's extreme bias against Israel is what leads him to come out with stuff like that.

Billy86

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Holocaust? You mean the Nazi Holocaust, right? There's been loads of holocausts.

Anyway Israel is armed to the teeth with hundreds of nuclear weapons which strangely doesn't make the news the same way another Middle Eastern state's alleged nuclear programme does. Nobody will be feasting on Israel's corpse. If Israel collapses, it will be from within.

But I agree with your point on Israel goading others. They don't give a toss about who they offend or who they murder, they see themselves as some sort of master race. I suppose that's a legacy of a colonial/settler project. Nasty supremacism.

Oh don't get me wrong I agree with you there and am aware of their own military capabilities. But power is always destined to change hands, at some point. I'm sure the Greeks, Romans, etc never envisaged such a fall from grace but it happened, which is why I said we could be ball long dead by the time it does happen. People remember though, and so will all of their neighbours when the time comes. There's still plenty of time for them to make amends and build bridges, but if anything they seem (very) interested in doing the exact opposite of this. Whether it collapses externally or from within, they better hope they have done an awful, awful lot to correct this whenever that time is due.

It is strangely ironic how some do see themselves as a master race of sorts (talking hardline Zionists here, not your standard Jewish folk) given their history over the last century or so.

TommyKnocker

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If that's the case then it's the least efficient ethnic cleansing EVER. If the Israeli's are trying to cleanse Gaza of Palestinians then they're doing a really lousy job of it. The population of Gaza is rocketing upwards, it even increased DURING the last outbreak of conflict there last year.

Chomsky's extreme bias against Israel is what leads him to come out with stuff like that.

Well if you want to play with numbers riddle me this?

The Jewish World Almanac in 1933 showed the world wide Jewish population standing at around 15, 315,000 and in 1948 the same publication showed the Jewish population standing at 15,753,638, an increase of 438,638. So how come a there is no 6,000,000 difference in the 1948 figures?

Using your logic can I deduce that the holocaust as reported never happened?

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

It is strangely ironic how some do see themselves as a master race of sorts (talking hardline Zionists here, not your standard Jewish folk) given their history over the last century or so.

Jews shouldn't get uppity about themselves because we should remind them of where that led them before?

When it comes to master races and imposition of will, forced conversions, barbaric murder because people do not belong to the "right" religion etc, I'd fear Islamic fundamentalists a lot more than Jewish fundamentalists.

Dan_Solo

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If that's the case then it's the least efficient ethnic cleansing EVER. If the Israeli's are trying to cleanse Gaza of Palestinians then they're doing a really lousy job of it. The population of Gaza is rocketing upwards, it even increased DURING the last outbreak of conflict there last year.

Chomsky's extreme bias against Israel is what leads him to come out with stuff like that.

What is with you pro-Zionists are deliberate conflation of terms?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
Genocide ≠ Ethnic cleansing. Even the US might balk (before bending over and taking it eventually as usual) at the idea of the Israelis setting up death camps.
And the most passing familiarity with the map of Israel will show you Zionist expansion of the inherently racist Israeli state. That's ethnic cleansing.

Dan_Solo

Deleted User wrote: »

Jews shouldn't get uppity about themselves because we should remind them of where that led them before?

That's a completely nonsensical statement and has pretty much zero connection with what you're pretending to reply to. Zionists (you fabricated that he merely said Jews) shouldn't get "uppity" (your term for racist and ethnic cleansing it seems) because they should be aware of their history which they insist on banging on about (usually falsely).

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Jews shouldn't get uppity about themselves because we should remind them of where that led them before?

When it comes to master races and imposition of will, forced conversions, barbaric murder because people do not belong to the "right" religion etc, I'd fear Islamic fundamentalists a lot more than Jewish fundamentalists.

...unless you were a Palestinian in the West Bank.

mad muffin

DarkyHughes wrote: »

The UN can say what it likes, the Geneva conventions makes it clear Israel committed war crimes? .

In August a Israeli settler burnt alive a 18 month old Palestinian, how come your not outraged over that, how come you never made a thread about that? You racist hypocrite.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/palestinian-baby-burned-death-extremist-attack-150731035331224.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/death-18-month-old-in-arson-attack-heightens-tensions-west-bank-israel






That's what all this is when it comes down to it is racism. It was the same in Korea, the same in Vietnam & the same today. Palestinians are viewed as savage, emotionless untermensch who have to be liquidated.

I wouldn't say racist. More like, an equal opportunity hater. I hate all people, regardless of colour or creed or religion.

I think most people are dumb. Just like your post.

Dan_Solo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That's a completely nonsensical statement and has pretty much zero connection with what you're pretending to reply to. Zionists (you fabricated that he merely said Jews) shouldn't get "uppity" (your term for racist and ethnic cleansing it seems) because they should be aware of their history which they insist on banging on about (usually falsely).

If he was referring to the Holocaust he was referring to Jews.

It wasn't some campaign against Zionists.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

If he was referring to the Holocaust he was referring to Jews.

It wasn't some campaign against Zionists.

Literally in the part of his post that you quoted, he specified who he was and wasn't talking about:

Billy86 wrote: »

It is strangely ironic how some do see themselves as a master race of sorts (talking hardline Zionists here, not your standard Jewish folk) given their history over the last century or so.

Dan_Solo

osarusan wrote: »

Literally in the part of his post that you quoted, he specified who he was and wasn't talking about:

He must think parentheses means (ignore) instead of (qualifier)? No other explanation really besides deliberately lying.

shane9689

No

imagine if Britain murdered 2000 Catholics in the north and then Loyalists settled in their communities...would you be suprised at an IRA bomb? nope.... This whole situation is like Northern Ireland exept amped up X1000

BlaasForRafa

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Well if you want to play with numbers riddle me this?

The Jewish World Almanac in 1933 showed the world wide Jewish population standing at around 15, 315,000 and in 1948 the same publication showed the Jewish population standing at 15,753,638, an increase of 438,638. So how come a there is no 6,000,000 difference in the 1948 figures?

Using your logic can I deduce that the holocaust as reported never happened?

Given that I don't know the methodology used to compile the figures, I can't answer. Seeing as you are so clever, perhaps you can supply the answer?