UFC 189 - McGregor v Mendes *READ MOD WARNING IN 1st POST*

Foxtrol

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Off the top of my head better technique than Chad – McGregor, Aldo, Frankie, Holloway, Cub, Poirier (pre move up).

Chad has better power than nearly all of them but take that away and his technique (though improving) isn’t great. The division isn’t stacked with great strikers and it makes average ones or ones with power look good.

Dtp1979

but1er wrote: »

I'm dreading the McGregor vs Aldo thread

Just go back 3 weeks into this one and you'll have a taster of what it was like

CurryFlavoured

Foxtrol wrote: »

Off the top of my head better technique than Chad – McGregor, Aldo, Frankie, Holloway, Cub, Poirier (pre move up).

Chad has better power than nearly all of them but take that away and his technique (though improving) isn’t great. The division isn’t stacked with great strikers and it makes average ones or ones with power look good.

Better technique =\= better striking. Power is an aspect of striking and Chad has lots of it.

JJayoo

Foxtrol wrote: »

Off the top of my head better technique than Chad – McGregor, Aldo, Frankie, Holloway, Cub, Poirier (pre move up).

:pac:

Foxtrol

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Irrelevant. He's only fought 2 - Aldo who he came closest to beating out of the best FW can offer, and McGregor where he was beaten soundly on the feet but took the fight on 2 weeks notice. Fwiw Lamas is arguably in the top 5 strikers at FW, easily top 10.

I don't get your argument, do you really believe the fluff coming out of Kavanagh/McG's mouth about Chad? Because I doubt think even they believe it.

So your retort is that he hasn’t fought the best strikers so we have to take his KO’s against average ones as evidence. Prior to this weekend if someone said McGregor was one of the best wrestlers in the division and pointed to evidence of his take down defense against non-wrestlers they’d be laughed out the door.

My argument was that I was calling out Ken for misquoting Conor by saying that Mendes was the second best striker in the division, and if not I was saying I disagreed with Conor.

PS: You also left out Aldo KOing Mendes on the feet in their first fight

darced

This post has been deleted.

CurryFlavoured

Foxtrol wrote: »

So your retort is that he hasn’t fought the best strikers so we have to take his KO’s against average ones as evidence. Prior to this weekend if someone said McGregor was one of the best wrestlers in the division and pointed to evidence of his take down defense against non-wrestlers they’d be laughed out the door.

My argument was that I was calling out Ken for misquoting Conor by saying that Mendes was the second best striker in the division, and if not I was saying I disagreed with Conor.

PS: You also left out Aldo KOing Mendes on the feet in their first fight

You're argument would be OK up until Chad competed well with and even dropped Aldo, probably the best striker in the division. Imagine Conor had competed well with Chad in the wrestling stakes - we'd say he's a very good wrestler, not because of the bums but because he competed with the elite.

Also, its hard to compare some stuffed TDs from Siver and Brandao to KOing 5 guys in 6 fights.

CurryFlavoured

but1er wrote: »

I'm dreading the McGregor vs Aldo thread

Why? Its a forum, we're discussing a fighter. Get over yourself.

Foxtrol

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Better technique =\= better striking. Power is an aspect of striking and Chad has lots of it.

I see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure I agree with you that you should weight power so highly.

If you have a guy who is great at one type of submission and is finishing a load of strikers with it (eg by guillotine), would you say he’s one of the best at BJJ in the division?

There’s so much more to striking than one or two punches that are very powerful (and to be fair to Mendes he is improving in other aspects).

CurryFlavoured

Tbh I see where you're coming from, Mendes isn't particularly technical nor does he have a huge amount of variety to his striking. Along with his insane speed and power, he has enough technique to out strike (or just ko) nearly everyone in the division IMO. When you put it all together (power, speed, technique), I'd have him near the top.

Foxtrol

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Tbh I see where you're coming from, Mendes isn't particularly technical nor does he have a huge amount of variety to his striking. Along with his insane speed and power, he has enough technique to out strike (or just ko) nearly everyone in the division IMO. When you put it all together (power, speed, technique), I'd have him near the top.

I agree, all combined he is effective as a striker; one punch can stun/KO anyone in the division. I just don’t equate effective as being necessarily best though, especially not 2nd best in the division.

He’s even more effective when put up against guys who are a similar technical striking level but don’t have his power, as can be seen by his list of KOs against grapplers. This is why I’d love to see him against Holloway (if he wins) as it would be very interesting to see if he tried to stand with him, and if so his success, or reverted to wrestling.

Frankie would be a great fight as well as they may nullify each other in wrestling and then it would be Frankie’s pointing style vs Chad’s power. Can’t see it happening though as a loss for Frankie knocks off a new challenger.

nc19

Help!!!! wrote:

Where did I say any of that? Mendes tried & failed to make Conor submit. Conor had a bigger say in what was happening on the ground than Chad had when they were standing

Don't feed him..........he's only here talking cos nobody in the real world wants to listen to him

Wrongway1985

Foxtrol wrote: »

Point to me in the UFC a top level striker Mendes has KO’d or soundly beaten on their feet.

If he didn’t have his one punch power he wouldn’t be even near the conversation of being an elite striker.

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Off the top of my head better technique than Chad – McGregor, Aldo, Frankie, Holloway, Cub, Poirier (pre move up)

When Cub fought Mendes; He was getting so frustrated Mendes was noticeably laughing his ass off at him on the feet because Cub had no patience in fear of getting taken down again...and again which happened of course.

dave1982

Haha can't believe this thread still going strong

My thoughts from Saturday night Conor shown he is beatable a wrestler with good cardio (which Mendes should have had) should be able to beat him.I reckon JK seen that too Saturday so lot more wrestling defense training I think.

Do Conor always have cauliflower ears never noticed them before till after the Mendes fight?

scudzilla

dave1982 wrote: »

Haha can't believe this thread still going strong

My thoughts from Saturday night Conor shown he is beatable a wrestler with good cardio (which Mendes should have had) should be able to beat him.I reckon JK seen that too Saturday so lot more wrestling defense training I think.

Do Conor always have cauliflower ears never noticed them before till after the Mendes fight?

Well he's obviously seen Cathals non existent stand up and done nothing about that

dave1982

scudzilla wrote: »

Well he's obviously seen Cathals non existent stand up and done nothing about that

Cathal is the the red heaeded step child compared to Conor I say :pac:

Mellor

Foxtrol wrote: »

I see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure I agree with you that you should weight power so highly.

If you have a guy who is great at one type of submission and is finishing a load of strikers with it (eg by guillotine), would you say he’s one of the best at BJJ in the division?

There’s so much more to striking than one or two punches that are very powerful (and to be fair to Mendes he is improving in other aspects).

The bolded part basically describes Ronda Rousey.
Extremely dominant with one sub, and absolutely the best grappler in the division.

SpaceCowb0y

Only home yesterday. What an incredible trip and very special night UFC189 turned out to be! feel privileged to have been there!

DrPhilG

Mike Swick has retired after 189.

Right decision, I said to my friend right after that fight that he needed to hang up the gloves.

.ak

dave1982 wrote: »

Haha can't believe this thread still going strong

My thoughts from Saturday night Conor shown he is beatable a wrestler with good cardio (which Mendes should have had) should be able to beat him.I reckon JK seen that too Saturday so lot more wrestling defense training I think.

Do Conor always have cauliflower ears never noticed them before till after the Mendes fight?

Aside from the Conor factor, I think 189 will have done massive amounts in terms of bringing new fans in.

I would class myself as a general sports fan, and I really enjoy watching any combat sports, particularly boxing, but I'll watch them all - I watched a lot of baku and I love TKD and kick boxing, but I certainly wouldn't call myself anything more than a casual fan.

At times, MMA has left me feeling hot and cold. I'll admit I'm probably a 'fair weather' fan in terms that I'm not a massive fan of wrestling/grappling fights, however I can appreciate the technique and I've learnt a lot about JJ over the last year or so so I can appreciate the things I would usually miss.

But after 189 I'm still buzzing, I've watched the main card 3 times now! It has me absolutely hooked and I've spent the last week just reading various articles about UFC, MMA, the fights, the breakdowns etc.

I'd gather I'm not alone. I'd say a lot of casual posters even on this forum are slowly becoming regulars after the weekend.

189 will probably be what 100 was to a lot of people. The perfect even that pushed people over the edge, to make people really buy into it. Every now and again that happens in every sport, be it rugby or football, an event or match will capture the imagination of fringe supporters.

A lot of people mock the bandwagoners, but really who's to say they won't be the experts in 10 years time, or devout time and money to the sport you love?

Sorry, kinda gone OT on a rant there, but basically I can completely understand why this thread has gone so strongly.

John_D80

DrPhilG wrote: »

Mike Swick has retired after 189.

Right decision, I said to my friend right after that fight that he needed to hang up the gloves.

I was surprised to see his name on this card when it was announced. I actually thought he had retired years ago.

Wasn't he heavily involved recently enough in opening some super-gym in Thailand? Or was that someone else?

Best of luck to him either way. He was a good fighter and came across as a decent enough guy.

Edit: And wasn't it Swick that publicly challenged Floyd Mayweather to an Exhibition MMA fight?

pablohoney87

Mellor wrote: »

The bolded part basically describes Ronda Rousey.
Extremely dominant with one sub, and absolutely the best grappler in the division.

I'd say his point was more someone like Cody MacKenzie. Very good at subbing mediocre grapplers.

Ronda can obviously hang in there with the elite

Saipanne

scudzilla wrote: »

Well he's obviously seen Cathals non existent stand up and done nothing about that

What? You're not a fan of his big Popeye-esque windmill punches?

Mr. Manager

The wind up to Cathals punches and kicks are so telegraphed. You could literally write a message, via telegraph, to his opponent about it. Fúck, you could probably go and get steak (well done) and chips while you're at it too!

The guy is just awful to watch.

People will give me grief for this but I hope he gets the same treatment as Fitch.

Mr. Manager

The wind up to Cathals punches and kicks are so telegraphed. You could literally write a message, via telegraph, to his opponent about it. Fúck, you could probably go and get steak (well done) and chips while you're at it too!

The guy is just awful to watch.

People will give me grief for this but I hope he gets the same treatment as Fitch.

Davei141

His opponents are constantly getting a free pass for doing nothing also though, it shouldn't all be on him.

Mr. Manager

Davei141 wrote: »

His opponents are constantly getting a free pass for doing nothing also though, it shouldn't all be on him.

Not so sure about that though. They're less likely to get flak as it's 4 different guys where as Cathal is the common factor in all these fights

maximoose

Kevin Iole
@KevinI

Looking VERY likely that Aldo-McGregor fight will wind up in Cowboys Stadium. Pretty incredible

Article here

Davei141

Cereal Rapper wrote: »

Not so sure about that though. They're less likely to get flak as it's 4 different guys where as Cathal is the common factor in all these fights

Dodger literally ran away in his fight. Howard was his usual plodding self, did just a bit more than Pendred. Spencer thought he could win a fight by landing 2 knock downs in one round and throwing nothing else for the rest of the fight. If i can remember the Umalatov both done **** all.

Sure he is the common denominator but how many of those guys are actually exciting fighters? Spencer at a push if throwing infrequent bombs is exciting, but the rest are pretty much the same as Pendred.

Mr. Manager

Davei141 wrote: »

Dodger literally ran away in his fight. Howard was his usual plodding self, did just a bit more than Pendred. Spencer thought he could win a fight by landing 2 knock downs in one round and throwing nothing else for the rest of the fight. If i can remember the Umalatov both done **** all.

Sure he is the common denominator but how many of those guys are actually exciting fighters? Spencer at a push if throwing infrequent bombs is exciting, but the rest are pretty much the same as Pendred.

No I get that and I'm not arguing against that. The guys he has fought all have a ton of decisions between them

Cathal: 11 Dec
Umalatov: 10 Dec
Spencer: 10 Dec
Howard: 15 Dec

So it's not surprising that he's been in some of the worst fights but he hasn't done anything to make himself stand out against these guys...