Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you actually believe I think the IRFU are great. Im simply debating the points and giving an alternative view as you and others think IRFU cant do anything right etc and clubs should split in some ways from IRFU in terms of admin which is complete nonsense.
People tend to go back to their clubs after finals for Dublin clubs yes and in the case of this years final there is likely to be at least 1 non Dublin team in the final so its different.
Clubs can and should be doing more. Where's the innovation in terms of getting people to turn up. The IRFU cant be expected to do work the clubs should be doing themselves

Yes, yes I do. I have never once seen you even remotely give the slightest part of any blame to them.

Can clubs do more? Yes. As I have said before. However, being handicapped by your union is not going to make that any easier. Playing the final on a Sunday is just another prime example of that handicapping.

If YM or Con win the AIL they won't go back to their clubs? I'd find that very odd.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Yes, yes I do. I have never once seen you even remotely give the slightest part of any blame to them.

Can clubs do more? Yes. As I have said before. However, being handicapped by your union is not going to make that any easier. Playing the final on a Sunday is just another prime example of that handicapping.

If YM or Con win the AIL they won't go back to their clubs? I'd find that very odd.

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

I didn't say they were ****e at their job I said they are primarily (considerably so) concerned with the pro and schools games and clubs is an after thought. They see that as their job so that's what they do.

What could the clubs do differently then? That they all appear to be ignoring the chance to do.

Are you expecting huge TV figures?

What about the Saturday afterwards? All Irish teams are out of the H Cup since Jan and the decision to play on 8 May was only made last month.

Are you honestly saying that Sunday 8 May is the best date for it?

MrJones2013

You know it makes sense, sure they even play the final of the NFL on a Sunday!

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you actually believe I think the IRFU are great.

To be fair, I've never once seen a post from you properly levelling criticism at the union

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I didn't say they were ****e at their job I said they are primarily (considerably so) concerned with the pro and schools games and clubs is an after thought. They see that as their job so that's what they do.

What could the clubs do differently then? That they all appear to be ignoring the chance to do.

Are you expecting huge TV figures?

What about the Saturday afterwards? All Irish teams are out of the H Cup since Jan and the decision to play on 8 May was only made last month.

Are you honestly saying that Sunday 8 May is the best date for it?

What alternative date then?
The Pro game is top as that earns the income that provides for all levels below that. Schools isn't next.
Clubs could market the games better themselves. You want promotion of games. IRFU running national campaigns is fine but its the clubs and the localised promo that will get people going to games and involved in some form with a club much more than national campaigns. Why clash with the European finals regardless of no irish side competing?

GavMan wrote: »

To be fair, I've never once seen a post from you properly levelling criticism at the union

:rolleyes: and countless other posts in countless threads
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93458037

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What alternative date then?
The Pro game is top as that earns the income that provides for all levels below that. Schools isn't next.
Clubs could market the games better themselves. You want promotion of games. IRFU running national campaigns is fine but its the clubs and the localised promo that will get people going to games and involved in some form with a club much more than national campaigns. Why clash with the European finals regardless of no irish side competing?

I've given you 2 potential alternative dates. Do you think that 8 May is the best? One question, one answer please.

MrJones2013

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Agree with you on this, RTE could do more also. 3 minutes on 'Against the Head' 6 nights a year plus a token AIL game at the business end of the season is ridiculous!

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Do we really need to go to down by this amount and this would significantly impact on more rural clubs which isn't great and would see more players leaving rural clubs to strengthen the city clubs. That isn't better for the sport overall.
But where is the demand for this. The crowds are not so great at AIL that we need much more. Clubs need to be doing better themselves/be more innovative with their own marketing/PR etc

The top is a previous post by myself and what is highlighted below it was the response from your good self

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

Where is the demand for this??? Why worry about getting it on TV at all when there is no demand for it......

The final should be played on a Saturday, as I said before people that are true supporters of the club game would prioritise the club final ahead of the final round of league games in the PRO12.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I've given you 2 potential alternative dates. Do you think that 8 May is the best? One question, one answer please.

Yes. Theres complaints from some season is too long already. Why extend it further? May 14th champions cup final. 21st/28th Pro12 knockouts.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

The top is a previous post by myself and what is highlighted below it was the response from your good self

Where is the demand for this??? Why worry about getting it on TV at all when there is no demand for it......

The final should be played on a Saturday, as I said before people that are true supporters of the club game would prioritise the club final ahead of the final round of league games in the PRO12.

What exactly is a true supporter of the club game? Why should someone have to prioritise? Why should they not be able to go see both? Have the club game on Sunday and allow people still watch the pro12.

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What exactly is a true supporter of the club game?

In my opinion a true supporter of the club game is someone that has an affiliation with a domestic amatuer club and has a genuine interest in the game at a domestic amatuer level as well as at a professional level. Someone who if their local club (for example Clontarf) are playing at the same time their province is on tv (for example Leinster), will attend their club game ahead of watching the game on tv. This happens on a regular basis, these are what I would class as true supporters of the club game and not merely followers of the sport.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why should someone have to prioritise?

Why should the choice be taken away from them, it doesn't seem to be an issue having to prioritise any other week of the season!

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

In my opinion a true supporter of the club game is someone that has an affiliation with a domestic amatuer club and has a genuine interest in the game at a domestic amatuer level as well as at a professional level. Someone who if their local club (for example Clontarf) are playing at the same time their province is on tv (for example Leinster), will attend their club game ahead of watching the game on tv. This happens on a regular basis, these are what I would class as true supporters of the club game and not merely followers of the sport.

Why should the choice be taken away from them, it doesn't seem to be an issue having to prioritise any other week of the season!

I coach underage teams in 2 clubs. I referee. Im on various committees. Without being/sounding arrogant. I do a lot more in the domestic amateur game than many here. In an ideal world you would get most who would go watch their local club if they were playing at the same time as their province but the overwhelming majority are not like that.

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I coach underage teams in 2 clubs

What do you do when the 2 clubs play against each other

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I referee. Im on various committees. Without being/sounding arrogant. I do a lot more in the domestic amateur game than many here.

I'm not saying you personally, I am outlining my opinion of what a true supporter of what the club game is (which is what you asked), a person who would rather attend a club game than simply watch a professional game on the box.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In an ideal world you would get most who would go watch their local club if they were playing at the same time as their province but the overwhelming majority are not like that.

That is obvious, those that are in the overwhelming majority are not what I would call true supporters of the club game and are more than likely relatively new to the sport which I have no issue with but why is the club final moved? By the sounds of it you think it is being moved to suit these people who probably don't even know it is on?

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I'm not saying you personally, I am outlining my opinion of what a true supporter of what the club game is (which is what you asked), a person who would rather attend a club game than simply watch a professional game on the box.

But it is far from as simple as that. Im a "true supporter" and have been to 100+ games but on many occasions I have chosen to watch on tv a pro game than attend a club game. If you don't have a direct connection to a club game you are not going to attend so you

That is obvious, those that are in the overwhelming majority are not what I would call true supporters of the club game and are more than likely relatively new to the sport which I have no issue with but why is the club final moved? By the sounds of it you think it is being moved to suit these people who probably don't even know it is on?

I dont think we can judge people like that? Club final is moved to help the game. There is plenty who are not involved in any of the clubs who may be in the final who may go to it but if game is on the Saturday same day as pro12 games they wont go to/watch both. Media attention is affected with games on same day as pro12

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes. Theres complaints from some season is too long already. Why extend it further? May 14th champions cup final. 21st/28th Pro12 knockouts.

QUOTE]

I find it incredulous that only last week you were complaining about adults having to play Sundays and why it is such a problem and now you have 100% flipped on that opinion. It really puts a question over your defence that you are not just defending the IRFU for the sake of it.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But it is far from as simple as that. Im a "true supporter" and have been to 100+ games but on many occasions I have chosen to watch on tv a pro game than attend a club game. If you don't have a direct connection to a club game you are not going to attend so you
I dont think we can judge people like that? Club final is moved to help the game. There is plenty who are not involved in any of the clubs who may be in the final who may go to it but if game is on the Saturday same day as pro12 games they wont go to/watch both. Media attention is affected with games on same day as pro12

As I think has been said the true supporter comment was not aimed at you.

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

MrJones2013

Tarf1234 wrote: »

As I think has been said the true supporter comment was not aimed at you.

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

Being from Limerick I generally gauge a rugby supporter by their ability to answer the following question: 'Who is Ger Earls?'

If they answer 'Thomond/Young Munsters legend' I would class them as a rugby supporter pre 2000, someone who has a good knowledge of both the amateur and professional sides of the sport. If they are dressed head to toe in Munster gear and answer 'Keith Earls Father' I would class them as a 'new age' rugby supporter. I have no problem with either type of supporter but it's a way of gauging what type of supporter is in front of you

Buer

Or, you know...the person is under 30 years of age?

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I find it incredulous that only last week you were complaining about adults having to play Sundays and why it is such a problem and now you have 100% flipped on that opinion. It really puts a question over your defence that you are not just defending the IRFU for the sake of it.

I haven't flipped at all. Its about context. Why extend the season. I regularly hear complaints from players the season is long enough already. A Sunday doesn't clash with final round of pro12.
Final wont be a week earlier as its the bank holiday weekend.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

Im not bowing to the needs of pro game but you have to use the pro game to get more interested in the club game. Its a huge resource that can be tapped to get into the game more

MrJones2013

Buer wrote: »

Or, you know...the person is under 30 years of age?

Obviously age would be factored in while making my judgement, I'm very judgemental

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

:rolleyes: and countless other posts in countless threads
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93458037

Utterly stinging....:rolleyes:

The Lost Sheep

Play-off fixtures
Saturday
Division 2A/2B Promotion Play-Offs
City of Derry v Sunday's Well, Judge's Road, 2.30pm
Skerries v Greystones, Holmpatrick, 2.30pm

Division 2B/2C Promotion Play-Offs
Tullamore v Bruff, Spollanstown, 2.30pm
Rainey Old v Wanderers, Hatrick Park, 2.30pm

Tighty

Hinch beat Garryowen 59 5 to escape automatic relegation thanks to Cork Con beating Galweigans. I never gave Hinch ANY chance of surviving to get into the playoff.

The Lost Sheep

1A:
Ballynahinch 59 Garryowen 5, Clontarf 25 UCD 12, Cork Constitution 26 Galwegians 16, Terenure College 36 Old Belvedere 14, Young Munster 22 Lansdowne 3
Div 1A Semi-Finals:
Clontarf (1st) v UCD (4th), Cork Constitution (2nd) v Young Munster (3rd) - Saturday, April 23
Relegated: Galwegians

1B:
Belfast Harlequins 36 Ballymena 26, Dolphin 29 St Mary's College 3, Dublin University 55 Blackrock College 21, Old Wesley 23 UL Bohemians 24, Shannon 23 Buccaneers 12
Champions/Promoted: St. Mary's College

Div 1A Relegation/Promotion Play-Offs:
Ballynahinch v Buccaneers, Dublin University v Ballymena - Saturday, April 23; Winners play each other to decide final Div 1A team for next season

Div 1B Relegation/Promotion Play-Offs:
Blackrock College v Cashel, Banbridge v UCC - Saturday, April 23; Winners play each other to decide final Div 1B team for next season
Relegated: Belfast Harlequins

2A Relegation/Promotion Playoffs
City of Derry 10 Sunday's Well 21, Skerries 30 Greystones 32

2B Relegation/Promotion playoffs
Rainey Old Boys 24 Wanderers 28, Tullamore 23 Bruff 21

Round Robin
Clonmel 7 Enniscorthy 22

Digifriendly

Tighty wrote: »

Hinch beat Garryowen 59 5 to escape automatic relegation thanks to Cork Con beating Galweigans. I never gave Hinch ANY chance of surviving to get into the playoff.

'Hinch were only up 14-0 at HT. Garryowen must have collapsed in second half. 'Hinch should survive play offs.

MrJones2013

Very interesting last day of the regular season in 1A, I'm expecting a 'Tarf v Cons final but as a Limerick man I'd like to see YM in the final. Didn't see B'nahinch winning by enough to avoid the automatic drop, will they survive though?!

ArmchairQB

Digifriendly wrote: »

'Hinch were only up 14-0 at HT. Garryowen must have collapsed in second half. 'Hinch should survive play offs.

Garryowen down to 12 at on stage, I fancy Hinch to stay up now and win the playoffs, great fight back over last few months by them!

turtleshead

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Very interesting last day of the regular season in 1A, I'm expecting a 'Tarf v Cons final but as a Limerick man I'd like to see YM in the final. Didn't see B'nahinch winning by enough to avoid the automatic drop, will they survive though?!

YM will make that a home semi with their travelling support, they will easily out number Cons, they have beaten them twice already this season and haven't lost down there in 3 years, saying that though i fancy Cons I shade it with their cuteness coming through. Tarf will win the other semi and win the final v Cons, they are the best side in the country by a mile.

Ballinahinch have done very well to get into a relegation playoff, Garryowen travelled up that morning which I guess contributed to them falling apart in the game.

MrJones2013

turtleshead wrote: »

YM will make that a home semi with their travelling support, they will easily out number Cons, they have beaten them twice already this season and haven't lost down there in 3 years, saying that though i fancy Cons I shade it with their cuteness coming through. Tarf will win the other semi and win the final v Cons, they are the best side in the country by a mile.

Ballinahinch have done very well to get into a relegation playoff, Garryowen travelled up that morning which I guess contributed to them falling apart in the game.

True YM will travel in numbers and have a good record down in Temple Hill in recent years, I still fancy Cons myself though, as you said their cuteness might be enough to see them through.

B'hinch have carried out one part of a great escape. If what you are saying about Garryowen travelling up that morning is true then that may have had an impact on their second half with fatigue kicking in and the fact that it was a dead rubber for them against a side that had everything to play for.

Tarf1234

Tighty wrote: »

Hinch beat Garryowen 59 5 to escape automatic relegation thanks to Cork Con beating Galweigans. I never gave Hinch ANY chance of surviving to get into the playoff.

Incredible, I was completely writing them off about 2 months ago. Had completely forgotten about them almost.

I hope they win that playoff and stay up now.

Tarf1234

turtleshead wrote: »

YM will make that a home semi with their travelling support, they will easily out number Cons, they have beaten them twice already this season and haven't lost down there in 3 years, saying that though i fancy Cons I shade it with their cuteness coming through. Tarf will win the other semi and win the final v Cons, they are the best side in the country by a mile.

Ballinahinch have done very well to get into a relegation playoff, Garryowen travelled up that morning which I guess contributed to them falling apart in the game.

How long is that trip on a bus, I presume it's pretty significant? (ignorant Dublin man here)