Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

ArmchairQB

turtleshead wrote: »

YM will make that a home semi with their travelling support, they will easily out number Cons, they have beaten them twice already this season and haven't lost down there in 3 years, saying that though i fancy Cons I shade it with their cuteness coming through. Tarf will win the other semi and win the final v Cons, they are the best side in the country by a mile.

Ballinahinch have done very well to get into a relegation playoff, Garryowen travelled up that morning which I guess contributed to them falling apart in the game.

Tarf have been good alright, best side by a country mile I don't agree, UCD will be a different animal next week and I wouldn't read anything into Saturdays result. Since UCD have been back in 1a it has always been said that you wouldn't want them in the playoffs and that still stands, I do think the winner will come from the Tarf v UCD semi but i fancy UCD to win it out.

turtleshead

Tarf1234 wrote: »

How long is that trip on a bus, I presume it's pretty significant? (ignorant Dublin man here)

You are talking approx 5 hours on a bus, factor in stopping for pre-match sustenance & team meeting it could take you 6 hours. I reckon Garryowen would need to be meeting in Limerick at 6 with an aim to leave at 6:30 am.

Can understand teams where they game has no benefit for them not wanting to fork out the €2/3k to stay overnight especially given the lack of money in the club game.

The funny thing is I remember the rumour doing the rounds around Limerick at the time that Garryowen complained YM to the union for not travelling overnight the season they were relegated from 1A where it was a nothing game for YM.

Tarf1234

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Tarf have been good alright, best side by a country mile I don't agree, UCD will be a different animal next week and I wouldn't read anything into Saturdays result. Since UCD have been back in 1a it has always been said that you wouldn't want them in the playoffs and that still stands, I do think the winner will come from the Tarf v UCD semi but i fancy UCD to win it out.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Although in saying that Tarf are more likely to get stronger ahead of next week. UCD were pretty much full while we were missing a few.

Not sure on YM v Con. Big advantage for con being at home. I think the final will be a fairly tight affair regardless of who is in it.

Tarf1234

turtleshead wrote: »

You are talking approx 5 hours on a bus, factor in stopping for pre-match sustenance & team meeting it could take you 6 hours. I reckon Garryowen would need to be meeting in Limerick at 6 with an aim to leave at 6:30 am.

Can understand teams where they game has no benefit for them not wanting to fork out the €2/3k to stay overnight especially given the lack of money in the club game.

The funny thing is I remember the rumour doing the rounds around Limerick at the time that Garryowen complained YM to the union for not travelling overnight the season they were relegated from 1A where it was a nothing game for YM.

That is a serious trek. Can't be in anyway helpful.

MrJones2013

Both semi-finals will be close as will the final. If I was a betting man I would be putting money on 'Tarf to win it outright.

3 of the 4 teams are in serious form, UCD have only won 1 of their last 7, searching for form going in to the playoffs is not ideal. Con and YM have both won 8 of their last 10, it's a very tough one to call. YM will have a huge support there no doubt but Cons pedigree when it comes to knockout rugby might be enough to see them squeeze through.

ionadnapokot

David Corkery on Athehead there.
Any word on what he's like as a head coach?
He was saying that he likes the on field stuff

Tarf1234

ionadnapokot wrote: »

David Corkery on Athehead there.
Any word on what he's like as a head coach?
He was saying that he likes the on field stuff

Seems to have done an incredible job and everything I've heard is very positive.

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Both semi-finals will be close as will the final. If I was a betting man I would be putting money on 'Tarf to win it outright.

3 of the 4 teams are in serious form, UCD have only won 1 of their last 7, searching for form going in to the playoffs is not ideal. Con and YM have both won 8 of their last 10, it's a very tough one to call. YM will have a huge support there no doubt but Cons pedigree when it comes to knockout rugby might be enough to see them squeeze through.

If there is any team that form is not really relevant to its UCD! I think all 4 teams are really well suited to play off rugby for different reasons.

How crazy is it that UCD were so far ahead and finished up 17 points behind tarf.

MrJones2013

Just caught up with last nights 'Against the Head', judging by the 'Clubs v Province' debate someone in RTE must've been reading this thread!

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Just caught up with last nights 'Against the Head', judging by the 'Clubs v Province' debate someone in RTE must've been reading this thread!

I find it really odd that there has been such a big light shone on it now. These issues are hardly new. I wonder if it has anything to do with a relatively poor season for the provinces bar Connacht and a relatively poor 6 nations/rwc compared to expectations.

If the IRFU put their heads in the sand will a decent year next year make it go away?

MrJones2013

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I find it really odd that there has been such a big light shone on it now. These issues are hardly new. I wonder if it has anything to do with a relatively poor season for the provinces bar Connacht and a relatively poor 6 nations/rwc compared to expectations.

If the IRFU put their heads in the sand will a decent year next year make it go away?

Very true, in fairness to EO'S and Donal Lenihan they recognised and stated that this has been an issue for the last 10 years or so.

I think you are right in saying the decline of the 3 'stronger' (I know Connacht have passed Munster out in recent seasons!) provinces on a European level, and a poor 6 nations/RWC when we were seen as serious contenders for both has helped bring this issue to a head.

Lenihan seems adamant that the AIL should be utilised more for getting young players games. To be fair though, looking at some of the team sheets, in recent weeks especially, it has been.

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Very true, in fairness to EO'S and Donal Lenihan they recognised and stated that this has been an issue for the last 10 years or so.

I think you are right in saying the decline of the 3 'stronger' (I know Connacht have passed Munster out in recent seasons!) provinces on a European level, and a poor 6 nations/RWC when we were seen as serious contenders for both has helped bring this issue to a head.

Lenihan seems adamant that the AIL should be utilised more for getting young players games. To be fair though, looking at some of the team sheets, in recent weeks especially, it has been.

Agree, I'm sure all of these guys are well aware of it just find it interesting timing. If everything was going well the guys on against the head and some of the reporters would be saying nothing.

I think the highlighted point is the most frustrating part of it all. When you see the quality that can be put together and then what the team might be the week after it can be worlds apart.

MrJones2013

Tarf1234 wrote: »

When you see the quality that can be put together and then what the team might be the week after it can be worlds apart.

Again this issue was raised, I think it may have been raised by David Corkery even, not sure exactly who raised it. They said players can go from playing one week, be it with a club or an 'A' side, and not playing for another 2 or 3 weeks. They need to be playing consistently IMO and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is of this opinion.

seliot1

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Again this issue was raised, I think it may have been raised by David Corkery even, not sure exactly who raised it. They said players can go from playing one week, be it with a club or an 'A' side, and not playing for another 2 or 3 weeks. They need to be playing consistently IMO and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is of this opinion.

they largely do play consistently unless they are injured. AIL is scheduled around A games.

ArmchairQB

seliot1 wrote: »

they largely do play consistently unless they are injured. AIL is scheduled around A games.

Not really true as they are rested before an A game and after have down weeks for strength and conditioning have a different preseason and tend not to be available for early games. Coaches and clubs wouldn't be giving out if they were released most of the time.

seliot1

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Not really true as they are rested before an A game and after have down weeks for strength and conditioning have a different preseason and tend not to be available for early games. Coaches and clubs wouldn't be giving out if they were released most of the time.

AIL coaches are always going to complain, they are in the middle and feel like they are more important than they actually are.

I'd say most academy players play most AIL games throughout the season, if teamsheets were more readily available and not so secretive it would be easier to track this.

MrJones2013

seliot1 wrote: »

AIL coaches are always going to complain, they are in the middle and feel like they are more important than they actually are.

I'd say most academy players play most AIL games throughout the season, if teamsheets were more readily available and not so secretive it would be easier to track this.

Are the team listings on the IRFU website on 'results round up' following a UBL round not accurate? (Genuine question, not a smart a*se one!) Looking at the listings of my own club they're fairly spot on week-in, week-out.

Regarding your comment on AIL coaches feeling they 'are more important than they actually are', no doubt that will ruffle a few feathers and rightly so, I think clubs and club coaches have a big role to play. Look at Mike Ruddock in Lansdowne for example, surely given his experience he has a massive role to play in the development his players??

seliot1

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Are the team listings on the IRFU website on 'results round up' following a UBL round not accurate? (Genuine question, not a smart a*se one!) Looking at the listings of my own club they're fairly spot on week-in, week-out.

Regarding your comment on AIL coaches feeling they 'are more important than they actually are', no doubt that will ruffle a few feathers and rightly so, I think clubs and club coaches have a big role to play. Look at Mike Ruddock in Lansdowne for example, surely given his experience he has a massive role to play in the development his players??

How often do academy players spend being coached by their AIL coach? 1 night a week?

AIL coaches are important for AIl players, how much effect they have on academy players who are in the pro setup is very debatable.

Sometimes the teamsheets aren't accurate, varies team to team in my experience.

MrJones2013

seliot1 wrote: »

How often do academy players spend being coached by their AIL coach? 1 night a week?

Not really sure but most teams have 2 on-field sessions a week, surely they are available for both sessions if they are going to be involved that weekend?

seliot1 wrote: »

AIL coaches are important for AIL players, how much effect they have on academy players who are in the pro setup is very debatable.

True they are more important for AIL players but surely they have a positive effect on an academy players also? A lot of these coaches have plenty of experience, surely the knowledge passed on to the players from these coaches is beneficial to their development no?

seliot1 wrote: »

Sometimes the teamsheets aren't accurate, varies team to team in my experience.

Does that mean sides are submitting false teamsheets to officials on match days? Surely the teamsheets published on the IRFU website are received directly from the clubs on match day?

I know that the team sheets for the domestic game (junior and underage competitions) in Munster are submitted online prior to matches, do the IRFU have a similar system for the AIL?

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Not really sure but most teams have 2 on-field sessions a week, surely they are available for both sessions if they are going to be involved that weekend?



True they are more important for AIL players but surely they have a positive effect on an academy players also? A lot of these coaches have plenty of experience, surely the knowledge passed on to the players from these coaches is beneficial to their development no?



Does that mean sides are submitting false teamsheets to officials on match days? Surely the teamsheets published on the IRFU website are received directly from the clubs on match day?

I know that the team sheets for the domestic game (junior and underage competitions) in Munster are submitted online prior to matches, do the IRFU have a similar system for the AIL?

Most pro or academy players will only train on the Thursday. This will change for the next 2 or 3 weeks where they will probably train 2 nights.

They also get coached by them on game days and during video sessions.

Team sheets on IRFU websites have always been correct when I've looked at them.

To say players are always released is just not true. Look at UCD since Christmas. This is just the most glaringly obvious case.

seliot1

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Not really sure but most teams have 2 on-field sessions a week, surely they are available for both sessions if they are going to be involved that weekend?



True they are more important for AIL players but surely they have a positive effect on an academy players also? A lot of these coaches have plenty of experience, surely the knowledge passed on to the players from these coaches is beneficial to their development no?



Does that mean sides are submitting false teamsheets to officials on match days? Surely the teamsheets published on the IRFU website are received directly from the clubs on match day?

From what i've been told they train once a week, once they've been released by the province.

If a player is being trained once a week by a coach, how much effect do they have when compared to the academy/senior coaches who train them much more often.

well i've seen one teamsheet online and a different teamsheet from the game. Not very often but it has happened.

seliot1

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Most pro or academy players will only train on the Thursday. This will change for the next 2 or 3 weeks where they will probably train 2 nights.

They also get coached by them on game days and during video sessions.

Team sheets on IRFU websites have always been correct when I've looked at them.

To say players are always released is just not true. Look at UCD since Christmas. This is just the most glaringly obvious case.

never said they are always released.. UCD have been affected by u20 callups, injuries and players needed by the senior setup. That's the reality of having a lot of academy players in your squad, they could be called up by Ireland u20, could get injured playing A rugby or could be needed by the senior team. Club knows this, they need to step moaning about it and get on with it.

Maybe an A pro 12 league would be better off, provinces pull academy players and the "amateurs" can be amateur.

Tarf1234

seliot1 wrote: »

never said they are always released.. UCD have been affected by u20 callups, injuries and players needed by the senior setup. That's the reality of having a lot of academy players in your squad, they could be called up by Ireland u20, could get injured playing A rugby or could be needed by the senior team. Club knows this, they need to step moaning about it and get on with it.

Maybe an A pro 12 league would be better off, provinces pull academy players and the "amateurs" can be amateur.

Just a quick one in relation to the team sheet. The team sheet you got at the match was probably what was wrong as is unfortunately all too common.

There are not a huge number of U20s lads starting for UCD as far as I'm aware Porter jumps to mind but that's about it. Most of them are your Paeder Timmons, Jeremy Loughmann, Josh Murphy guys who randomly get pulled as described previously.

"Clubs need to stop moaning" how condescending. People being constructive and people explaining issue they face. Grow up yourself young boy.

I would have no issue with the provinces pulling all of the Pro players out of the AIL and it has been suggested previously and I believe is one of the current options being looked at. It would not suit the provinces though.

seliot1

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Just a quick one in relation to the team sheet. The team sheet you got at the match was probably what was wrong as is unfortunately all too common.

There are not a huge number of U20s lads starting for UCD as far as I'm aware Porter jumps to mind but that's about it. Most of them are your Paeder Timmons, Jeremy Loughmann, Josh Murphy guys who randomly get pulled as described previously.

"Clubs need to stop moaning" how condescending. People being constructive and people explaining issue they face. Grow up yourself young boy.

I would have no issue with the provinces pulling all of the Pro players out of the AIL and it has been suggested previously and I believe is one of the current options being looked at. It would not suit the provinces though.

Lougman and Timmins were needed by the pro setup, clubs complaining now that academy players might be called up to play for Leinster?
Murphy got injured.

People being constructive? Most the time you hear club people giving out about access etc. That's moaning to me, you are amateurs and in the grand scheme of professional irish rugby not very important in the modern setup.

But heaven forbid someone says that, the club game still seem to think it's the 90's, it's not. At most you are a vessell for young pro players to play some rugby, and rugby at a fairly low standard when compared to what is expected at a professional level.

Tarf1234

seliot1 wrote: »

Lougman and Timmins were needed by the pro setup, clubs complaining now that academy players might be called up to play for Leinster?
Murphy got injured.

People being constructive? Most the time you hear club people giving out about access etc. That's moaning to me, you are amateurs and in the grand scheme of professional irish rugby not very important in the modern setup.

But heaven forbid someone says that, the club game still seem to think it's the 90's, it's not. At most you are a vessell for young pro players to play some rugby, and rugby at a fairly low standard when compared to what is expected at a professional level.

Well done. Good day

MrJones2013

seliot1 wrote: »

People being constructive? Most the time you hear club people giving out about access etc. That's moaning to me, you are amateurs and in the grand scheme of professional irish rugby not very important in the modern setup.

But heaven forbid someone says that, the club game still seem to think it's the 90's, it's not. At most you are a vessell for young pro players to play some rugby, and rugby at a fairly low standard when compared to what is expected at a professional level.

Yeah every professional rugby player is born knowing the game inside out and just rocks up to training with the professional squads when they are of age without ever setting foot in a rugby club.

Stainalert

seliot1 wrote: »

Lougman and Timmins were needed by the pro setup, clubs complaining now that academy players might be called up to play for Leinster?
Murphy got injured.

People being constructive? Most the time you hear club people giving out about access etc. That's moaning to me, you are amateurs and in the grand scheme of professional irish rugby not very important in the modern setup.

But heaven forbid someone says that, the club game still seem to think it's the 90's, it's not. At most you are a vessell for young pro players to play some rugby, and rugby at a fairly low standard when compared to what is expected at a professional level.

If you have so little interest and respect for the club game what are you doing on this thread? Most of the people on this thread are well versed on both the pro game and the club game (many having been involved at both levels on a day to day basis). Your comments simply show you know very little about either. Jog on...

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Lenihan seems adamant that the AIL should be utilised more for getting young players games. To be fair though, looking at some of the team sheets, in recent weeks especially, it has been.

But the thing is as others have said the league is used to get young players games. They do play quite a lot of AIL.

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Not really true as they are rested before an A game and after have down weeks for strength and conditioning have a different preseason and tend not to be available for early games. Coaches and clubs wouldn't be giving out if they were released most of the time.

But how many games to most play? Adam Byrne etc have played quite a lot with UCD. I know as ive seen UCD play on several occasions. Ive seen plenty of Connacht academy play AIL with Wegians.

seliot1 wrote: »

AIL coaches are always going to complain, they are in the middle and feel like they are more important than they actually are.

I'd say most academy players play most AIL games throughout the season, if teamsheets were more readily available and not so secretive it would be easier to track this.

They are available. Go on club websites and you will see match reports with team lists and theyre listed on irfu website.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Does that mean sides are submitting false teamsheets to officials on match days? Surely the teamsheets published on the IRFU website are received directly from the clubs on match day?

I know that the team sheets for the domestic game (junior and underage competitions) in Munster are submitted online prior to matches, do the IRFU have a similar system for the AIL?

Yes there is that system in place and no sides are not submitting false teamsheets as if they were theyd be thrown out of the competition

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes there is that system in place and no sides are not submitting false teamsheets as if they were theyd be thrown out of the competition

Thought as much to be honest!

Stainalert

Looking forward to the games this weekend - Really tough to call the winners

Expect Clontarf to have too much for UCD although If UCD can front up in the pack I think they have a real chance

Munsters and Con is a tricky one - I am going to go with Con purely because they have home advantage but Munsters could very easily turn them over

Expect Ballynahinch to beat Buccaneers (Houdini would be proud) and hoping Trinity can do a job on Ballymena (Will they have many of their Ulster contingent?)

Going with my Leinster hat on hoping for the other games

Rock v Cashel - worried for Rock in this one but hopefully they dig deep and get the result

Banbridge v UCC - UCC outsiders I guess but would be great if they could pull this off

Sunday's Well v Greystones - Hope Stones do the business here

Tullamore v Wanderers - This looks another very tight game but again routing for the Leinster team