Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

PTH2009

That's that yet again failed in this grade

Clareman

PTH2009 wrote: »

Nothing's won yet. Half back line playing well. Shane o Donnell missed a sitter thank god

O'Donnell is having a nightmare in fairness.

Deise Hurler

PTH2009 wrote: »

That's that yet again failed in this grade[/quote

Far from over yet but very lacklustre performance so far. Clare far hungrier. Silly short puckouts after costing us a few scores. Stephen Bennett should be full forward. Not fit enough for where he is playing.

PTH2009

Just not good enough

Cake Man

Absolutely gutted

redlead

PTH2009 wrote: »

Just not good enough

Would you ever get a life and stop coming here sprouting ****e. They're plenty good enough, just blew it.

Clareman

That was a great Waterford team, I think playing 3 days after a Munster Final and playing a team with 3 All Irelands in the grade was against them, not to mention having to travel ~3 hours to get to Ennis.

That Waterford team will be a force to reckon with and in a way it's good that ye don't have the distraction of the under 21 with the quarter finals coming up.

hurler on de ditch

redlead wrote: »

Would you ever get a life and stop coming here sprouting ****e. They're plenty good enough, just blew it.

just not good enough

O Riain

Clare really took off in the second half with some unreal scores but you would have to think that playing a game 3 days after a Munster final has to have a serious effect on a team.

<SNIP>

Cake Man

I think we struggled at times getting to grips with their intensity. It seemed every time one of our players tried running with the ball and breaking the tackle they overturned possession.
Clare also won a huge amount of their own pick outs, their wing forwards were always dropping short for it which set up attack after attack.

Thought our marking was poor at times, so many instances of 3 or 4 Clare players free around midfield.

Really thought we'd kick on after Patrick Currans well taken goal but it was Clare who responded.

PTH2009

O Riain wrote: »

Clare really took off in the second half with some unreal scores but you would have to think that playing a game 3 days after a Munster final has to have a serious effect on a team.

Can't wait for thinkstoomuch to come on here now with his condescending horse manure.

The timings of this competition needs to be looked at why can't they play it all in August

Alf Tupper

Just a few things.

The team was set up totally incorrectly.

What's the point in playing Tom Devine out the field when his pace and wrists are not quick enough. Tom should always be played close to goal where his pure strength when getting on the ball is best served.

Also, why was Shane Bennett played so far out from goal when he has shown to be at his best in the forward line when taking guys on directly.

Colin Dunford is a great lad, a game lad, but his accuracy off his left on the run shows no sign of improving in the last year. With proper coaching, this lad would be worth at least three or four points a game to us.

The substitutions were baffling and made no improvement.

One of our most lauded underage forwards, touted to make it, needs to decide if he actually wants hurling or not. Again tonight, he was totally ineffectual.

Final point, and this is no indictment of Darragh Lyons who has a brilliant future, but, as per Mount Sion's great Pat McGrath, a person should never manage a team with close relations belonging to him on the panel. Right or wrong, it just leaves himself open to the accusation of nepotism.

skaface

Thought Dunford was poor enough tonight, and
along with Gleeson seemed to drift in and out
of the game.. 3 days after playing a senior Munster Final didn't help their cause.. Lot of
tired legs out there.
We have the players to have a right crack at the
U21 again next year..
Up the Deise

cornerboy

I still dont know whats wrong with playing 3 in the full forward line and hitting the ball in to them when you are 3 points down and less than10 to go. How can you chase the game from the opposition half of the field. We did the same at the weekend.

Moggy13

cornerboy wrote: »

I still dont know whats wrong with playing 3 in the full forward line and hitting the ball in to them when you are 3 points down and less than10 to go. How can you chase the game from the opposition half of the field. We did the same at the weekend.

Very reminiscent of the weekend. Some great play mixed with some bad choices. Players running into blind alleys and not offloading quicker seems to be a recurrent theme. Clare were much more clever in possession. Let's hope our season doesn't end in a whimper. Up the Deise!

PTH2009

Too avoid disappointment we should never hype up a Waterford underage team lol.

Feel so gutted rite now

archieknox

Tactically inept and out fought. Wrong decisions taken time after time and again we have fellas shooting from nearly outside Bunratty Castle so as to make headlines! My god how many more times will a certain individual decide that he can do as he likes out on the pitch and not be dealt with appropriately. All the skill in the world is worth jack Sh**e if you're attitude and work rate is non existent. Blame Sunday all you want but not too many played the full 70 mins so that doesn't wash with me. Paddy Curran for the amount of ball he got was outstanding why he wasn't utilised more I've no idea. We can't have any complaints we were beaten on and off the field by a side that wanted it more.

thesultan

We needed to free DeBurca to the half backline because we were conceding oceans of scores. Gleeson has to remember that the first act of a defender is to stop your man scoring. Curran still was the shining light and makes the hardest things look effortless.

PTH2009

archieknox wrote: »

Tactically inept and out fought. Wrong decisions taken time after time and again we have fellas shooting from nearly outside Bunratty Castle so as to make headlines! My god how many more times will a certain individual decide that he can do as he likes out on the pitch and not be dealt with appropriately. All the skill in the world is worth jack Sh**e if you're attitude and work rate is non existent. Blame Sunday all you want but not too many played the full 70 mins so that doesn't wash with me. Paddy Curran for the amount of ball he got was outstanding why he wasn't utilised more I've no idea. We can't have any complaints we were beaten on and off the field by a side that wanted it more.

That was the spine of our senior team too. I may sound crazy but Dublin will fancy there chances big time now on the 26th.

robopaddy2

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

just not good enough

Weve a team full of seniors. their only starting senior is shane o donnell and bobby duggan who is a sub for the seniors. By your reckoning then we should be getting hammered out the gate at senior level given that the u21s arent good enough for this level. Were just a shambles when it comes to this level even with probably our strongest u21 group in 25 years

Ropaire

We seemed to be second best to everything and was surprised we were so close in the end tbh. Thought the goal would be the spark to get us going but it was who Clare kicked on after it.

Not pushing up on them in the last few mins and keeping a sweeper didn't make a huge amount of sense to me. One of our forwards in the last ten mins was chased by no less than six Clare players and we had no one in support, needed more bodies thrown forward at that stage. Maybe players drained from Sunday or Clare just hungrier on the day, whatever it was its a shame we're out but at least we can focus on senior. Hope the players don't let this get to them.

thinkstoomuch1

thesultan wrote: »

We needed to free DeBurca to the half backline because we were conceding oceans of scores. Gleeson has to remember that the first act of a defender is to stop your man scoring. Curran still was the shining light and makes the hardest things look effortless.

Tonight further emphasis the point Gleasson should be moved to the forwards for the senior team and not a back
Have no doubt cody watched this game with kk possibly playing waterford and he knows defensively Gleasson terrific player is not a great defender


He would be a brilliant half forward imo

deisedude

Was at the game tonight. The lads who were playing senior were visibly stuck to the ground in the second half. They had nothing in their legs. Clare the better team on the night but the timing of the match really went against us

Ropaire

deisedude wrote: »

Was at the game tonight. The lads who were playing senior were visibly stuck to the ground in the second half. They had nothing in their legs. Clare the better team on the night but the timing of the match really went against us

The GAA pay alot of lip service to player welfare and burnout, etc, yet still schedule games close together anyway. It's a shame really, maybe we would have won if we had fresh legs but credit where its due, Clare were the better team on the day. Enjoyable game despite the result too. I can't remember the last time we won underage in Ennis, but at least this time we werent off out in Milltown Mallby or somewhere.

tomwaterford

deisedude wrote: »

Was at the game tonight. The lads who were playing senior were visibly stuck to the ground in the second half. They had nothing in their legs. Clare the better team on the night but the timing of the match really went against us

Was there myself.....Second half while he played well de burca was dead on his feet (he is an exceptional tackler btw)

Thought gleeson of fourmilewater did well

thinkstoomuch1

deisedude wrote: »

Was at the game tonight. The lads who were playing senior were visibly stuck to the ground in the second half. They had nothing in their legs. Clare the better team on the night but the timing of the match really went against us

While yes the senior game had an effect i disagree it can be used really as a major effect in the defeat


Two years ago in the all ireland senior championship clare senior with lot of the under twenty one panel played two week before laois and then on the 13th July beat Wexford in extra time in a game that took lot of clare but four days later that Wednesday they played waterford in Walsh park and won a very close game by four points


Waterford this year had a gap from the cork to the tipp senior game up to the under twenty one

Clare had two senior games in two weeks in laois then week after Wexford then the under twenty one game few days after


Clare were able to win away from home as they being huge favourite just like waterford tonight but they imo had a better system effective with players played in their best positions with also imo better tactical plan unlike waterford tonight


Waterford were the better team on paper as malonry the clare coach exact words were waterford are the golden generation and he was very gracious in the win and said man for man clare on paper were not as good


Imo he was saying then if the players weren't as good as waterford on paper then the system is what won it for clare

archieknox

Ropaire wrote: »

The GAA pay alot of lip service to player welfare and burnout, etc, yet still schedule games close together anyway. It's a shame really, maybe we would have won if we had fresh legs but credit where its due, Clare were the better team on the day. Enjoyable game despite the result too. I can't remember the last time we won underage in Ennis, but at least this time we werent off out in Milltown Mallby or somewhere.

3 years ago we won a first round up in Ennis in minor hurling by 1pt and got hammered in the next round by a Tipp team that went on to win the All Ireland. Will be interesting to see how they perform against Limerick tomorrow night.

thinkstoomuch1

Another significant correlation to the senior set up in both panels were similar with both the same system is again from play like I said after Sunday senior game waterford are simply not scoring enough from play and again tonight a goal and tenfrom play is poor compared to clare getting sixteen points from play


Only for the goal clare would won by more and point is in senior this is the same trend and if waterford struggle get a goal they will struggle to out point imo most team from play and against the best team where discipline is good you need to be scoring more in open play
This has been evident in all league senior games and again tonight
McGrath was asked by rte after the match regards that and he replied something like means free scoring means creating chances fair enough to a point but against well discipline team like kk who have to a tee between defending and not fouling they won't get many frees and this is something that has to be worked on going forward


Sarsfields in the cork county championship are another example in every county game they got most scores from non play
They won a cork county but outside that they struggled badly in the Munster championship
There's still a lot of work imo needed with waterford system and Sunday and tonight showed it can be beaten and yes you won't loose heavily but at the same time a loss is a loss at the end of the day in sport



The good news is waterford can improve hugely at senior if lessons are learned from the senior and under twenty one game
That will be key
For starters imo Dublin provides an ideal opportunity for Gleasson to be played as a half forward where he would absoultey thrive with the freedom further up the field

Dick phelan

I honestly thought a lot of them were knackered, Dunford was shattered last Sunday and tonight wasn't in the game at all, Some crazy decisions by management, why was Shane Bennett played so far out from goal? It was a poor performance but i wouldn't go ripping up the entire system because of it, they actually played quite well last Sunday imo.

Brad1234

Well that was a f*cking shambles if I've ever seen it.. You have to give great credit to management for playing a sweeper and still having the most porous defence we've seen in a long while.. That's a feat in itself. O Donnell was well marshalled throughout but Duggan who at any stage was picking him up.. I know Devine stood beside him from the start but after that who was actually assigned to him (totally ridiculous having a guy who is wholehearted and offers more out the middle doing a marking job) Our half back line was non existent. The only guy who was actually doing a bit was taken off at half time (I presume he was injured)

I don't know what 'system' they came out with after half time because it certainly wasn't defensive. If they didn't have much time to prepare why experiment with players.. Shane Bennett took the biscuit. I know he played a lot of underage at wing but he was always incredibly loose there and has much more potential in the forwards. He went completely out of the game.

Stephen Bennett I wish he could be played in the inside line.. I don't know how he has become this workhorse out the field (fine at club level) it was never his game.. He looks totally lost doing it.. Albeit he missed the goal chance on sunday but that's where he always has been most effective and his relationship with curran was something I was looking forward to tonight but out making lung busting runs when he clearly isn't in top shape is brainless..

Tiredness I'm not buying we always have some sort of a crutch or excuse when we are red hot favourites only to be dumped out by inferior opponents.. I can understand a sweeper system at senior level because we are making our way but there is no excuse for it last night... Its something you have to spend a lot of time working at clearly the u21's haven't and hoped the senior lads would pull them through..

Shooting is a massive issue and something which can be worked on.. possibly not to much at group training as you are neglecting other areas but players now have to look at themselves and work at it..

But still I put the majority of that loss on the management teams shoulders.. With about 15 mins to go the game was up and they haven't a clue how to turn it around.. Subs they brought on had little or no input and were totally left field.

Is colm roche injured.. Cormac Curran? Curran is a guy I wonder about his speed for top level but with 10 mins to go and ball going in around the house surely throw him in? Has a great paw on him and their full back was a bit on the light side as shown by foran in the first half for his point but didn't really do anything in the second to justify staying on so long. If they were injured well then fair enough..

This was the one team this year I was looking forward to the most.. The senior is a great bonus but I really felt an All Ireland is in this team as the next few years even though we are strong so are Limerick Tipp KK and this was our chance..

The only positive was the reaffirmation of how much of a genius Patrick Curran is.. His point in the first half one touch over his right shoulder what a score.. Took his goal so well.. Id be reluctant to play him from the start at senior yet purely based on the way we play he wont see much ball but if we did go two inside id love to see him and bennett play off each other.. Why not cant be as bad as it was tonight or the weekend free up Maurice out to the wing but brick down the centre with Dillon the other side and colin Dunford then doing his roaming role..