Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Twiceasnice97

Gavlor wrote: »

Clubs will get the best tickets, centra & tickets.ie tend to get the sides of the stands.

if you buy the tickets in twos you will get better seats.
go in to a quiet shop and get them to try a few times and good seats will come up

Giveitfong

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

derek mcgrath needs to hold his nerve here.
the reason waterford lost is because they hit bad wides when tipp were in disarray.
the waterford system had tipps backs in a mess. padraic maher showed for certain that he cant play as the sweeper as his distribution was cat.

if waterford had taken the three or four points they should have gotten tipp would almost certainly have been in serious trouble mentally

I see that Sylvester Hennessy in his article in the Irish Examiner today said that Tipperary became the first side to defeat the ‘Waterford system’ in 2015 in last Sunday’s game. I do not see it like that at all. In my view it was more a case of Waterford beating themselves, with their string of bad misses and gifting Tipperary several scores.

It can be said that Tipperary also had some bad misses and gifted Waterford some scores but that for me shows how much they were unsettled by their inability to get to grips with the Waterford system.

Going forward, I myself am of the view that such is the potential scoring talent in the Waterford squad that we could afford to adopt a more offensive game plan. While I would still leave Tadhg De Búrca as sweeper and Jamie Barron in the ‘hole’ between the wing backs, I think with Eddie Barrett (when he settles in) or perhaps Tom Devine doing a similar workhorse role as Kevin Moran in midfield, we could keep two players in the full forward line. I would suggest playing Darragh Fives at wing back with Austin Gleeson at full forward along with Stephen Bennett or Patrick Curran, and Maurice Shanahan at wing forward where I think he is most comfortable. Brick and Colin Dunford would man the other half forward positions with Shane Bennett (as well as either Stephen Bennett or Patrick Curran) to come in as required.

I think this setup would have enormous scoring potential without greatly weakening the defensive setup (especially with Darragh Fives added to the half back line). However, it is unlikely that Derek McGrath will go for significant restructuring of the game plan at this stage, although he has indicated that he would like to go for a more attacking system once the current team establishes itself as a competitive force. I expect he will go about this in next year’s national hurling league.

And to be fair, the current game plan was not significantly undermined by last Sunday’s defeat. We continued to create lots of scoring chances, including a couple of clear goal chances which Tipperary didn’t manage to do. Inexperience and bad luck were Waterford’s biggest problems.

That said, the way we play the present system could do with considerable improvement. There were numerous occasions last Sunday when Waterford played long and rather aimless balls up to the forwards (or “forward”, to be more accurate) when there were loose Waterford players around the midfield area to which these balls should have been directed. It is also worth noting that when Colin Dunford went for goal late in the game, Tom Devine was unmarked inside on the edge of the square.

In his article in the Irish Times last week, John Allen said that teams playing Waterford’s type of system should be working the ball up the field rather than sending long balls forward. Waterford do this to an extent, but not sufficiently. The first option for any Waterford defender with clean possession should be to look for a team mate in the midfield area, and only to deliver a long ball if there is no other choice.

Even then, rather than lashing high ball to land inside the opponents’ 20 metre line, the focus should be on landing balls about 30-40 metres from the goal for the full forwards to come out to. They have a much better chance of winning that kind of ball than the high ball coming in when they are outnumbered anyway. Tipperary and Kilkenny play a lot of this kind of ball, with the full forward coming out to gather and then lay off to an incoming half forward or midfielder moving at pace in the direction of the opposing goal.

Tipperary also play a lot of low ball up to the forwards which again gives them an advantage over the chasing defender. What is important here is that, invariably, these balls are aimed at particular players rather than just being hit in the general direction of the inside forwards. Posters here have been complaining about Stephen Bennett’s poor scoring record but, to be honest, he is a bit lost in the current system as very little good ball is being sent his way. I think he could be devastating if he had a big target man to feed off, but the current game plan does not provide for this.

So I would like to see Waterford working on how they move the ball out of defence, with more emphasis of finding loose men in the midfield area and less reliance on long “hit-and-hope” balls up to a lone target man (alone, that is, apart from the two or three defenders he has for company). Placing Darragh Fives at wing back would be a major first step in this direction.

Deisegodeo

tomwaterford wrote: »

AFAIK there's minor on at 12 (think its Limerick)

Yeah Limerick v Galway in the minor at 12pm. Should be a good game but doubt we'll be in that early.

I needed 5 tickets together, got that via Super Valu so we're happy enough.

seananigans

So, i just found out barry coughlan trains in the same gym as i do in dublin (i didnt know he was up here)

I said nothing but watched him today doing his drills, with no pressure on him, he pushed himself again and again through drill after drill, with a mixture of pain and satisfaction.

its sometimes easy to forget how hard thse lads work,and how tough we are on them, worth remembering most of the work they do, is normally not seen

Dick phelan

seananigans wrote: »

So, i just found out barry coughlan trains in the same gym as i do in dublin (i didnt know he was up here)

I said nothing but watched him today doing his drills, with no pressure on him, he pushed himself again and again through drill after drill, with a mixture of pain and satisfaction.

its sometimes easy to forget how hard thse lads work,and how tough we are on them, worth remembering most of the work they do, is normally not seen

Great to hear have to say the attitude of the lads has been fantastic they really do seem a great bunch. Coughlan has been fantastic this year and was yet again last Sunday. Yeah we can be critical of some aspects like system or shooting but the players commitment to Waterford is in no doubt. Still in the championship with hopefully a good performance against Dublin to come.

Deise Hurler

Dick phelan wrote: »

Great to hear have to say the attitude of the lads has been fantastic they really do seem a great bunch. Coughlan has been fantastic this year and was yet again last Sunday. Yeah we can be critical of some aspects like system or shooting but the players commitment to Waterford is in no doubt. Still in the championship with hopefully a good performance against Dublin to come.

Agree fully.
Had big doubts about Coughlan at the start of the year but am delighted that he has proven me and many others wrong.
And credit to Derek McGrath too, who placed his trust in Barry for what was once our troublesome full back position.

letsseehere14

Giveitfong wrote:

I see that Sylvester Hennessy in his article in the Irish Examiner today said that Tipperary became the first side to defeat the ‘Waterford system’ in 2015 in last Sunday’s game. I do not see it like that at all. In my view it was more a case of Waterford beating themselves, with their string of bad misses and gifting Tipperary several scores.

Giveitfong wrote:

It can be said that Tipperary also had some bad misses and gifted Waterford some scores but that for me shows how much they were unsettled by their inability to get to grips with the Waterford system.

I'm sorry but no. You claim Waterford could have won if they had been more clinical, hinting at the fact they the only reason they were not clinical was their own fault. You then claim the reason Tipp weren't clinical was because Waterford unsettled them!!!
So Waterford misses - Waterfords fault.
Tipp misses - Waterfords game plan.

Rediculous. Tipp harried and hassled as much as Waterford. They fell asleep second quarter and allowed Waterford back into the game. Tipp also handed Waterford a number of scores with poor passes and overplaying the ball.

Waterford had 2 real shots on goal. Tipp had 1. Lar Corbetts mi**** shot.

With all of this Tipp always kept Waterford at arms lenght. Still amassed 21 scores and had the game won with 10 to go.

I don't want to sound harsh but it is folly to think Tipp won that game due to Waterford bad play. If anything, from my position, Tipp let Waterford into the game by their performance in the second quarter. It was in that period they handed Waterford about 3 or 4 easy scores due to remedial mistakes.

We've seen before, Kilkenny do it too the odd time. That these top teams allow of this sloppyness through the provincial championships. Last year though, when they got to Croker they had tightened up considerably.

If Waterford and the rest are to beat them from now on they cannot rely on Tipp or Kilkenny falling asleep and letting other teams claw back to a point or two behind by half time because it's not going to happen. Ask Cork after the AI semi last year.

thinkstoomuch1

letsseehere14 wrote: »

I'm sorry but no. You claim Waterford could have won if they had been more clinical, hinting at the fact they the only reason they were not clinical was their own fault. You then claim the reason Tipp weren't clinical was because Waterford unsettled them!!!
So Waterford misses - Waterfords fault.
Tipp misses - Waterfords game plan.

Rediculous. Tipp harried and hassled as much as Waterford. They fell asleep second quarter and allowed Waterford back into the game. Tipp also handed Waterford a number of scores with poor passes and overplaying the ball.

Waterford had 2 real shots on goal. Tipp had 1. Lar Corbetts mi**** shot.

With all of this Tipp always kept Waterford at arms lenght. Still amassed 21 scores and had the game won with 10 to go.

I don't want to sound harsh but it is folly to think Tipp won that game due to Waterford bad play. If anything, from my position, Tipp let Waterford into the game by their performance in the second quarter. It was in that period they handed Waterford about 3 or 4 easy scores due to remedial mistakes.

We've seen before, Kilkenny do it too the odd time. That these top teams allow of this sloppyness through the provincial championships. Last year though, when they got to Croker they had tightened up considerably.

If Waterford and the rest are to beat them from now on they cannot rely on Tipp or Kilkenny falling asleep and letting other teams claw back to a point or two behind by half time because it's not going to happen. Ask Cork after the AI semi last year.

Brilliant post and I'd agree with everything there
Tippeary won sunday as they were the better team and fully deserved the win and scored fourteen or so to waterford nine points from play
Just my opinion but scoring nine from play is hardly great
Tippeary Well deserved that win as many pundits said after the game

Best of luck to waterford under twenty ones tonight id like to see them win as this championship needs a new name on the trophy and this is an excellent waterford side having seen them destroy cork

liogairmhordain

letsseehere14 wrote: »

With all of this Tipp always kept Waterford at arms lenght. Still amassed 21 scores and had the game won with 10 to go.

With ten minutes to go the score was 16-13.
With three minutes to go it was 18-15.
The crowds weren't exactly streaming for the exits.

mickotallow

Has the 21 team been announced?

danganabu

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

derek mcgrath needs to hold his nerve here.
the reason waterford lost is because they hit bad wides when tipp were in disarray.
the waterford system had tipps backs in a mess. padraic maher showed for certain that he cant play as the sweeper as his distribution was cat.

if waterford had taken the three or four points they should have gotten tipp would almost certainly have been in serious trouble mentally

Padraic Maher's distribution was cat because he was playing with one arm and was unable to strike the ball cleanly, this happened after 3 mins of the game when he collided with Brick Walsh.

I actually think Paudie is made for the sweeper role, he covers ground very well, is a good reader of the game and his main weakness as a player of being a bit flat footed when turned is not exposed, if I was playing against Tipp the last man I would want as the spare man would be Padraic Maher.

PTH2009

I'd say about 50% of Waterford supporters don't even know there's an under 21 game on tonight. A lot of supporters up there Sunday are either senior team supporters or jumping on the bandwagon

Best of luck to the under 21s tonight, ennis is a tough place to get a result

HillFarmer

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd say about 50% of Waterford supporters don't even know there's an under 21 game on tonight. A lot of supporters up there Sunday are either senior team supporters or jumping on the bandwagon

Best of luck to the under 21s tonight, ennis is a tough place to get a result

Do you know the team named by any chance?

Cake Man

Best of luck to all the lads and management tonight. It'll be a tough test but we're certainly capable of coming away with a Munster final to look forward to.
Has the team been named?

HillFarmer

Cake Man wrote: »

Best of luck to all the lads and management tonight. It'll be a tough test but we're certainly capable of coming away with a Munster final to look forward to.
Has the team been named?

Hey Cakeman, we should go boozing for the quarter final 11pm Sydney time

robopaddy2

HillFarmer wrote: »

Hey Cakeman, we should go boozing for the quarter final 11pm Sydney time

Count me in! Wheres the best spot?

Cake Man

Any of the irish pubs in around the city will surely be showing the games

Tramore84

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd say about 50% of Waterford supporters don't even know there's an under 21 game on tonight. A lot of supporters up there Sunday are either senior team supporters or jumping on the bandwagon]

Why does that matter exactly? Good to see more people going to the games in my view. The more people taking an interest the better.

Tramore84

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd say about 50% of Waterford supporters don't even know there's an under 21 game on tonight. A lot of supporters up there Sunday are either senior team supporters or jumping on the bandwagon

Best of luck to the under 21s tonight, ennis is a tough place to get a result

Why does that matter exactly? More people who attend the games the better.

TGV

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd say about 50% of Waterford supporters don't even know there's an under 21 game on tonight. A lot of supporters up there Sunday are either senior team supporters or jumping on the bandwagon

Best of luck to the under 21s tonight, ennis is a tough place to get a result

Who cares, any support is good support it is same in any other county and most other sports. So why signal out our own, the young guys and girls might be new to going to matches as for the last five years the team was not exactly inspiring. As other posters have pointed out if hooked most of these will be the supporters of the future. I am sure many seasoned supporters including myself hopped on the bandwagon in 1998 and yippee we are still on it. Finally for the ones just up for a day out I am sure Waterford gaa are happy to take the money that would otherwise be spent on bulmers by the beach.

letsseehere14

liogairmhordain wrote:

With ten minutes to go the score was 16-13. With three minutes to go it was 18-15. The crowds weren't exactly streaming for the exits.

10 minutes was an exaggeration by me but in reality, and being honest, it looked to my like Tipp were just working through those last few minutes never letting Waterford get close.

My main point remains. To claim Waterford only lost due to Waterford errors while Tipperary mistakes were brought about by 'the system' is a rediculous claim.

I want the gap to the big 2 to close but I just don't think this is the way to go about it. Most counties, although lacking the 1 or 2 real big stars, could match most players with potential. But the Kilkenny squads and Tipperary squads havnt just magically made the step away. It's just to work and belief. But mainly work. Other counties need to match that. Coming up with a system that gets them close at the start of the year but ultimately nowhere in the end is in my view wasted energy.

tomwaterford

letsseehere14 wrote: »

10 minutes was an exaggeration by me but in reality, and being honest, it looked to my like Tipp were just working through those last few minutes never letting Waterford get close.

My main point remains. To claim Waterford only lost due to Waterford errors while Tipperary mistakes were brought about by 'the system' is a rediculous claim.

I want the gap to the big 2 to close but I just don't think this is the way to go about it. Most counties, although lacking the 1 or 2 real big stars, could match most players with potential. But the Kilkenny squads and Tipperary squads havnt just magically made the step away. It's just to work and belief. But mainly work. Other counties need to match that. Coming up with a system that gets them close at the start of the year but ultimately nowhere in the end is in my view wasted energy.

Tipperary are a step above kk (who are prob a small step over Waterford)

Though if they played again in the morning....who would improve the most...tipp or Waterford??


Any word on who is named in the u21

archieknox

No u21 team named yet. Lyons has stated it won't be announced until before the throw in so the mind games have started! I would imagine Jordan Henley will be starting in goal and you won't find any other changes to the starting 15 from the Cork game other than that. Rumoured that Shane McNulty is injured so we have to wait to see if this is true or not.
Big test for us up there tonight it's not the easiest place to get a result but if we're on song we should come through it.

thinkstoomuch1

letsseehere14 wrote: »

10 minutes was an exaggeration by me but in reality, and being honest, it looked to my like Tipp were just working through those last few minutes never letting Waterford get close.

My main point remains. To claim Waterford only lost due to Waterford errors while Tipperary mistakes were brought about by 'the system' is a rediculous claim.

I want the gap to the big 2 to close but I just don't think this is the way to go about it. Most counties, although lacking the 1 or 2 real big stars, could match most players with potential. But the Kilkenny squads and Tipperary squads havnt just magically made the step away. It's just to work and belief. But mainly work. Other counties need to match that. Coming up with a system that gets them close at the start of the year but ultimately nowhere in the end is in my view wasted energy.

I'd agree that work and believe are paramount but you must have an effective adaptable coherent system to beat the big two

Belief and work rate and passion and commitment was awesome sunday from waterford and it surprised me I'll admit it was above what I expected


However as you correctly said tippeary were the better team and like you I never felt tippeary were in any danger of loosing it they just done enough and the swash buckling style that dominated limerick was never going to be replicated two games in a row and tippeary as o shea said after won ugly


The system waterford do is not a waste of time however it need a change to attack as at present imo it's too one dimensional and predicable with no real threat scoring wise and while should beat Dublin it's a huge huge ask to see it beating kk
That's the real challenge now can waterford adapt it with out loosing anything in defence


Tippeary were able to beat the system and kk are a step up again having been all ireland champions and ruthlessly beating Wexford and Galway in second gear so much so even tj Reid said kk are doing real work from the all ireland semi final and imo huge worry to not just waterford but indeed every county left that kk aren't even at full throttle yet


Hunger and intensity in kk is going to match any team as the infusion of youth and average age team twenty five means kk next generation are hungry for more so team beat kk need everything in place


Kk will get at least one goal against any team and problem is if waterford conceded it's hard to see them make up the difference in point or goal in that kk defence


Also the croke park factors is huge also and kk are well used to it


I mean no disrespect to Dublin but most think waterford should beat Dublin and I think waterford have the better players and system than Dublin who are in transition and waterford will win that game i think

blue note

letsseehere14 wrote: »

I'm sorry but no. You claim Waterford could have won if they had been more clinical, hinting at the fact they the only reason they were not clinical was their own fault. You then claim the reason Tipp weren't clinical was because Waterford unsettled them!!!
So Waterford misses - Waterfords fault.
Tipp misses - Waterfords game plan.

Rediculous. Tipp harried and hassled as much as Waterford. They fell asleep second quarter and allowed Waterford back into the game. Tipp also handed Waterford a number of scores with poor passes and overplaying the ball.

Waterford had 2 real shots on goal. Tipp had 1. Lar Corbetts mi**** shot.

With all of this Tipp always kept Waterford at arms lenght. Still amassed 21 scores and had the game won with 10 to go.

I don't want to sound harsh but it is folly to think Tipp won that game due to Waterford bad play. If anything, from my position, Tipp let Waterford into the game by their performance in the second quarter. It was in that period they handed Waterford about 3 or 4 easy scores due to remedial mistakes.

We've seen before, Kilkenny do it too the odd time. That these top teams allow of this sloppyness through the provincial championships. Last year though, when they got to Croker they had tightened up considerably.

If Waterford and the rest are to beat them from now on they cannot rely on Tipp or Kilkenny falling asleep and letting other teams claw back to a point or two behind by half time because it's not going to happen. Ask Cork after the AI semi last year.

There is truth to your post. I wouldn't say the game was over with 10 minutes to go or anything, but we needed a goal which didn't look too likely around this time. We had a couple of goal chances and a good few wides, but those misses were both a feature of Tipp defending really well and a feature of our style - when we're forced into shooting from distance we're going to have a good few wides. Some days a few more will go over, but it's not very reliable.

Another feature of our play is limiting the goals we concede. On Sunday we were successful on this, but it won't be the case every day.

One thing which I don't agree with though is that Tipp fell asleep for the second quarter. I think quite simply Waterford got on top at this time. We were pressing really well and Tipp struggled to keep their composure and cleared a few balls very poorly. They did well to get a couple of scores in this period and to limit some of ours, but I definitely wouldn't say it was from complacency or anything like that.

I think Tipp are a bit ahead of Waterford at present and the game and the score reflected that fairly. Both Waterford and Tipp played very well at the weekend. It might not have been a pretty game, but it was a high quality one. And if Tipp had drifted off for a while Waterford might very well have gotten a lead that they'd have found it very difficult to pull back.

Facing into the Dublin game now I'd say it's one that we should win (no cert). And if we get to Kilkenny and put in a similar standard of performance to the one against Tipp I think we'll be in with a good chance of a win.

IanVW

Jordan henley in for Billy Nolan and Michael Kearney in for Darragh Lyons

Roy Coates

Christ I'm more nervous now than I was at 3.50 on Sunday. The beauty of knockout championship. Cmon now lads.

PTH2009

Sitting in a pub only one waiting to watch the match. Hope for a Waterford win

randd1

Just an observation. I think McGrath needs to have a word with Austin Gleeson.

In my view, he tends to try to do too much on the ball, and often goes for scores from massive distances that go wide.

He's an incredible young talent, but sometimes a measured pass or a quick release of the ball is the better option, especially with the way Waterford play.

I'm not having a cut at the chap, he is only really starting out after all, I just think he can be a bit more effective on the ball with a bit of guidance.

PTH2009

Nothing's won yet. Half back line playing well. Shane o Donnell missed a sitter thank god