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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***
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Well that was a f*cking shambles if I've ever seen it.. You have to give great credit to management for playing a sweeper and still having the most porous defence we've seen in a long while.. That's a feat in itself. O Donnell was well marshalled throughout but Duggan who at any stage was picking him up.. I know Devine stood beside him from the start but after that who was actually assigned to him (totally ridiculous having a guy who is wholehearted and offers more out the middle doing a marking job) Our half back line was non existent. The only guy who was actually doing a bit was taken off at half time (I presume he was injured)
I don't know what 'system' they came out with after half time because it certainly wasn't defensive. If they didn't have much time to prepare why experiment with players.. Shane Bennett took the biscuit. I know he played a lot of underage at wing but he was always incredibly loose there and has much more potential in the forwards. He went completely out of the game.
Stephen Bennett I wish he could be played in the inside line.. I don't know how he has become this workhorse out the field (fine at club level) it was never his game.. He looks totally lost doing it.. Albeit he missed the goal chance on sunday but that's where he always has been most effective and his relationship with curran was something I was looking forward to tonight but out making lung busting runs when he clearly isn't in top shape is brainless..
Tiredness I'm not buying we always have some sort of a crutch or excuse when we are red hot favourites only to be dumped out by inferior opponents.. I can understand a sweeper system at senior level because we are making our way but there is no excuse for it last night... Its something you have to spend a lot of time working at clearly the u21's haven't and hoped the senior lads would pull them through..
Shooting is a massive issue and something which can be worked on.. possibly not to much at group training as you are neglecting other areas but players now have to look at themselves and work at it..
But still I put the majority of that loss on the management teams shoulders.. With about 15 mins to go the game was up and they haven't a clue how to turn it around.. Subs they brought on had little or no input and were totally left field.
Is colm roche injured.. Cormac Curran? Curran is a guy I wonder about his speed for top level but with 10 mins to go and ball going in around the house surely throw him in? Has a great paw on him and their full back was a bit on the light side as shown by foran in the first half for his point but didn't really do anything in the second to justify staying on so long. If they were injured well then fair enough..
This was the one team this year I was looking forward to the most.. The senior is a great bonus but I really felt an All Ireland is in this team as the next few years even though we are strong so are Limerick Tipp KK and this was our chance..
The only positive was the reaffirmation of how much of a genius Patrick Curran is.. His point in the first half one touch over his right shoulder what a score.. Took his goal so well.. Id be reluctant to play him from the start at senior yet purely based on the way we play he wont see much ball but if we did go two inside id love to see him and bennett play off each other.. Why not cant be as bad as it was tonight or the weekend free up Maurice out to the wing but brick down the centre with Dillon the other side and colin Dunford then doing his roaming role..
Absolutely spot on Brad add to that the 2-3 points given away from poor puckouts and it all tallies up to another miserable night. I know the manager is from my own club and it's not an ideal scenario of to be having a go at him but as you said some of his decisions were baffling! Yes Cormac Curran was a definite option for full forward but Kieran Power would have been an option for Bobby Duggan but he walked off the panel over the way he was treated. You're right about the Bennetts aswell,crazy decisions where they were placed. Last thing,don't believe all the rubbish about both senior and u21 management accommodating each other!0 -
*sigh* Gotta love/hate that old school knockout championship...0
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Well that was a f*cking shambles if I've ever seen it.. You have to give great credit to management for playing a sweeper and still having the most porous defence we've seen in a long while.. That's a feat in itself. O Donnell was well marshalled throughout but Duggan who at any stage was picking him up.. I know Devine stood beside him from the start but after that who was actually assigned to him (totally ridiculous having a guy who is wholehearted and offers more out the middle doing a marking job) Our half back line was non existent. The only guy who was actually doing a bit was taken off at half time (I presume he was injured)
I don't know what 'system' they came out with after half time because it certainly wasn't defensive. If they didn't have much time to prepare why experiment with players.. Shane Bennett took the biscuit. I know he played a lot of underage at wing but he was always incredibly loose there and has much more potential in the forwards. He went completely out of the game.
Stephen Bennett I wish he could be played in the inside line.. I don't know how he has become this workhorse out the field (fine at club level) it was never his game.. He looks totally lost doing it.. Albeit he missed the goal chance on sunday but that's where he always has been most effective and his relationship with curran was something I was looking forward to tonight but out making lung busting runs when he clearly isn't in top shape is brainless..
Tiredness I'm not buying we always have some sort of a crutch or excuse when we are red hot favourites only to be dumped out by inferior opponents.. I can understand a sweeper system at senior level because we are making our way but there is no excuse for it last night... Its something you have to spend a lot of time working at clearly the u21's haven't and hoped the senior lads would pull them through..
Shooting is a massive issue and something which can be worked on.. possibly not to much at group training as you are neglecting other areas but players now have to look at themselves and work at it..
But still I put the majority of that loss on the management teams shoulders.. With about 15 mins to go the game was up and they haven't a clue how to turn it around.. Subs they brought on had little or no input and were totally left field.
Is colm roche injured.. Cormac Curran? Curran is a guy I wonder about his speed for top level but with 10 mins to go and ball going in around the house surely throw him in? Has a great paw on him and their full back was a bit on the light side as shown by foran in the first half for his point but didn't really do anything in the second to justify staying on so long. If they were injured well then fair enough..
This was the one team this year I was looking forward to the most.. The senior is a great bonus but I really felt an All Ireland is in this team as the next few years even though we are strong so are Limerick Tipp KK and this was our chance..
The only positive was the reaffirmation of how much of a genius Patrick Curran is.. His point in the first half one touch over his right shoulder what a score.. Took his goal so well.. Id be reluctant to play him from the start at senior yet purely based on the way we play he wont see much ball but if we did go two inside id love to see him and bennett play off each other.. Why not cant be as bad as it was tonight or the weekend free up Maurice out to the wing but brick down the centre with Dillon the other side and colin Dunford then doing his roaming role..[/QUOTE....not sure about kk0 -
Nothing more than they deserved to be fair. Clare showed a work rate that our seniors have shown this year. Far too often a Waterford player would solo the ball in the forwards with no team mate making a run near him to off load a pass, puck outs by Clare keeper even when hit 50 meters out were poorly contested while when our goalie hit the ball out there were always 3 Clare players under the dropping ball, anticipation of what the next move was poor, ball hit the post came down on the penalty line and no Waterford player in sight, very little ball worked inside and forwards not showing for a run.
Writing was on the wall from the Cork came to be honest, similar type of performance again with poor use of possession. If Cork weren't so negative in their approach by playing 4 forwards they would have finished them off the first day. It was a shame, they have the players to beat anyone in the competition if they showed a work rate that Clare had done. I was expecting a lot better this year with Mullane and Brown involved but at least now full attention can be given to the seniors from here onwards.0 -
Great win for Clare, but surely they won’t be as lucky to come up against as tactically an inept management in the final.
Not much I can add to what’s been said here already, but the fear I have is that our current “system” will suffocate the undoubted natural talent of a lot of these players. Whilst not a huge fan I can understand why we set up the way we do at Senior level. But to employ this last night was criminal.
The thing that annoyed me most was that in Patrick and Stephen we have potentially one of the most explosive inside forward lines in the game. But instead of exploiting this we chose to isolate Patrick inside working off scraps and have Stephen, a lad who let’s not forget has had 2 hip operations, expending his energy trying to win dirty ball and breaking tackles in a congested middle third. Absolute lunacy and it must be soul destroying for the two lads.
One or two other things –
Short puckouts – can someone explain to me the benefit of the keeper passing the sliotar to a lad just outside the 21 who then proceeds to launch it down field, something the keeper himself could have done? High risk low reward.
Why didn’t we have a man marker on Duggan who had the freedom of Cusack Park last night?
Is Shane Fives a forward or a defender? Because at the moment we don’t seem to know what to do with the lad.
We don’t always have to take on a man when we win the ball.
With about 2 minutes to go I had quick scan of the field and we had at my count 6 players inside our 65 actually marking one, as Clare had withdrawn. Whilst at the same time we had 2 players inside their 45 trying to make headway against 5 or 6 players. Are the players themselves now so indoctrinated into how they play that they won’t say “fcuk it” and throw the shackles off? Is there any difference between losing by 7 instead of 3?
I’m actually only annoying myself typing this so I’m going to log off and try and get a bit of work done.
Onwards and hopefully upwards to Dublin.0 -
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Patrick Curran got one particularly great point from the sideline. I thought I was watching Paul Flynn!0
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Who does the team lose for next year?0
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Devastated last night having completed a 5 hour round trip to Ennis and to watch what transpired.
We had adopted the sweeper system on our senior side to try and provide cover for an inexperienced full back and in an attempt to allow a young inexperienced side compete with what are perceived to be better more experienced teams,. We now seem to have to adopt this strategy at every grade, RUBBISH. Our under 21 panel are probably the most experienced under 21 panel in the country and still we adopted this system, when we had
ample talent to play a more expansive game.
Last night Kieran Bennett spent a huge amount of time out the field playing in front of our sweeper - effect nullified. We played Ryan Donnelly, Colin Dunford and Michael Kearney in the exact same roving roll around the middle of the field with none of them being a success on the night. The few times we got decent ball into our TWO MAN full forward line of Patrick Curran and DJ Foran we had Clare in trouble even though we were out numbered. Trouble is we spent so much time running with the ball into traffic and shooting from distance we delivered limited quality ball and who was substituted yet again DJ Foran - that lad must really feel hard done by.
Derek Lyons spoke on the radio yesterday about playing to a system, I would love to know exactly what the system was, because no one in the ground last night could figure it out. Someone wrote earlier that the Clare puckouts were poorly contested - that is the understatment of the year, we barely contested a puck out all night - Clare forwards ran into space at ease and plucked the ball into their hand while we spent the entire night putting our hurley up to bring the ball down.
Some will say it was tiredness and maybe it was but to me it bordered on apathy. Patrick Curran bust a gut last night and he had played as much time as many of the players last Sunday. At least twice he broke off into position to take a pass for almost certain goals and on each occasion two of our senior players failed to release the ball to him trying instead for their own score that failed. Regrettably the writing was on wall against Cork, when we put in a lack lustre performance down in Cork, but fortunately Cork were so poor we got away with it.
Last night our team work was dreadful, we were out fought, out thought and out hurled. We did not play for each other and maybe some of the lads have it in their heads about the bigger prize. Well if so they need to think again, their age grade was U-21, there were Munster and All Ireland Medals there to be won this year, and this opportunity is now gone for many of these players. We need to have a serious look at out mental strength and realise that hurling is a team sport, won by playing with and for each other, not for personal glory. Clare showed last night what the 21 grade and what winning means to them.
Last night the game was a mere 30 minutes aside, 10 minutes shorter than senior players are used to, it flew past and was over before many of them realised it and their chance was gone. If our teams. management and players do not learn from the lessons of last night, our apparent golden generation will be gone also.
Back to the drawing board, and no we do not need to adapt the sweeper system at all levels. and grades. You make the best uses of the resources at your disposal and last night we had the potential of playing a half forward line of Shane Bennett, Cormac Curran, and DJ Foran, all serious ballwinners capable of winning their own ball, with a full forward line of Patrick Curran, Stephen Bennett and Colin Dunford, with frightening potential close to goal where you could not get enough ball into them as quickly as possible, and what did we do. I am far from an expert and maybe right now talking through my frustrated ar.e but for God sake, let's get back to basics before we complicate the hurling out of our lads.0 -
Devastated last night having completed a 5 hour round trip to Ennis and to watch what transpired.
We had adopted the sweeper system on our senior side to try and provide cover for an inexperienced full back and in an attempt to allow a young inexperienced side compete with what are perceived to be better more experienced teams,. We now seem to have to adopt this strategy at every grade, RUBBISH. Our under 21 panel are probably the most experienced under 21 panel in the country and still we adopted this system, when we had
ample talent to play a more expansive game.
Last night Kieran Bennett spent a huge amount of time out the field playing in front of our sweeper - effect nullified. We played Ryan Donnelly, Colin Dunford and Michael Kearney in the exact same roving roll around the middle of the field with none of them being a success on the night. The few times we got decent ball into our TWO MAN full forward line of Patrick Curran and DJ Foran we had Clare in trouble even though we were out numbered. Trouble is we spent so much time running with the ball into traffic and shooting from distance we delivered limited quality ball and who was substituted yet again DJ Foran - that lad must really feel hard done by.
Derek Lyons spoke on the radio yesterday about playing to a system, I would love to know exactly what the system was, because no one in the ground last night could figure it out. Someone wrote earlier that the Clare puckouts were poorly contested - that is the understatment of the year, we barely contested a puck out all night - Clare forwards ran into space at ease and plucked the ball into their hand while we spent the entire night putting our hurley up to bring the ball down.
Some will say it was tiredness and maybe it was but to me it bordered on apathy. Patrick Curran bust a gut last night and he had played as much time as many of the players last Sunday. At least twice he broke off into position to take a pass for almost certain goals and on each occasion two of our senior players failed to release the ball to him trying instead for their own score that failed. Regrettably the writing was on wall against Cork, when we put in a lack lustre performance down in Cork, but fortunately Cork were so poor we got away with it.
Last night our team work was dreadful, we were out fought, out thought and out hurled. We did not play for each other and maybe some of the lads have it in their heads about the bigger prize. Well if so they need to think again, their age grade was U-21, there were Munster and All Ireland Medals there to be won this year, and this opportunity is now gone for many of these players. We need to have a serious look at out mental strength and realise that hurling is a team sport, won by playing with and for each other, not for personal glory. Clare showed last night what the 21 grade and what winning means to them.
Last night the game was a mere 30 minutes aside, 10 minutes shorter than senior players are used to, it flew past and was over before many of them realised it and their chance was gone. If our teams. management and players do not learn from the lessons of last night, our apparent golden generation will be gone also.
Back to the drawing board, and no we do not need to adapt the sweeper system at all levels. and grades. You make the best uses of the resources at your disposal and last night we had the potential of playing a half forward line of Shane Bennett, Cormac Curran, and DJ Foran, all serious ballwinners capable of winning their own ball, with a full forward line of Patrick Curran, Stephen Bennett and Colin Dunford, with frightening potential close to goal where you could not get enough ball into them as quickly as possible, and what did we do. I am far from an expert and maybe right now talking through my frustrated ar.e but for God sake, let's get back to basics before we complicate the hurling out of our lads.
I agree with most of this. Another point I would make, linked to the above and referenced in previous posts was the obvious lack of mental preparation. Put it down to fatigue if u like but it is managements job to ensure that a team has the right attitude. The messages from the Senior Manager and the U21 manager in the media before the game worried me as they spoke about putting things right against Clare and 'doing it for the people of Waterford'. This spoke to me of a lack of focus and perhaps respect for the task at hand. This failure to prepare is a consistent weakness with Waterford teams.0 -
that's a major part of the problem,good players dont necessarily make good managers like good jockeys dont necessarily make good trainers ,,some lads need to take on a club team first maybe win a minor or under 21 championship something solid ,but both having worked with ,Gerald /Justin mc Carthy ,Michael Ryan ,Davy Fitz,you would think they would get a lot more input ,instead of just running up and down the line arguing line balls and frees etc ,things need to be calmconditioned games wrote: »Nothing more than they deserved to be fair. Clare showed a work rate that our seniors have shown this year. Far too often a Waterford player would solo the ball in the forwards with no team mate making a run near him to off load a pass, puck outs by Clare keeper even when hit 50 meters out were poorly contested while when our goalie hit the ball out there were always 3 Clare players under the dropping ball, anticipation of what the next move was poor, ball hit the post came down on the penalty line and no Waterford player in sight, very little ball worked inside and forwards not showing for a run.
Writing was on the wall from the Cork came to be honest, similar type of performance again with poor use of possession. If Cork weren't so negative in their approach by playing 4 forwards they would have finished them off the first day. It was a shame, they have the players to beat anyone in the competition if they showed a work rate that Clare had done. I was expecting a lot better this year with Mullane and Brown involved but at least now full attention can be given to the seniors from here onwards.0 -
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Between Sunday and last night, the one thing that worries me greatly is the amount of poor shooting, dropping aimless balls into space/goalie/rolling over the line and not noticing a colleague in space. There seems to me to be a lack of players learning from mistakes. I'm all for players making mistakes as it shows effort but they don't seem to learn and stop taking the wrong option for the next day out.
Whether this is the management or players' fault, I don't know but surely to God someone is doing video analysis for the team. Sit them down for an hour and show them what they've done right and then where they went wrong by taking the harder option instead of looking up and finding a man 10 yards away instead of driving a ball 70 yards and it going wide.
If the players are told to take shots from distance, fine but some of their decision making can be easily changed to prevent scores against you and for you. 2 points on either side a game can make a hell of a difference.0 -
I thought that Waterford U21 team were supposed to be World Beaters. Complacency is an awful thing0
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Congratulations! You had at least one unique and original thought in your life. I doubt if anyone else on the planet rated Waterford,a potentially good team, that highly.0
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »While yes the senior game had an effect i disagree it can be used really as a major effect in the defeat
Two years ago in the all ireland senior championship clare senior with lot of the under twenty one panel played two week before laois and then on the 13th July beat Wexford in extra time in a game that took lot of clare but four days later that Wednesday they played waterford in Walsh park and won a very close game by four points
Waterford this year had a gap from the cork to the tipp senior game up to the under twenty one
Clare had two senior games in two weeks in laois then week after Wexford then the under twenty one game few days after
Clare were able to win away from home as they being huge favourite just like waterford tonight but they imo had a better system effective with players played in their best positions with also imo better tactical plan unlike waterford tonight
Waterford were the better team on paper as malonry the clare coach exact words were waterford are the golden generation and he was very gracious in the win and said man for man clare on paper were not as good
Imo he was saying then if the players weren't as good as waterford on paper then the system is what won it for clare
Just noting from a few of your posts the following including ones on the 21 thread:
Limerick who lost to Galway who Waterford hammered at minor, and Limerick who had the best team in Ireland in 2014 and still lost to Kilkenny in the All Ireland final and managed to draw with an inferior Waterford team in the Munster final. They'll be strong but dunno that you're asking the same of both teams. Waterford will also have home advantage against anyone they play I think except possibly Limerick which is a big deal. Anyway that's all for next year.
Just one more thing, if we don't deal with favorites tag well can you explain us beating Cork at senior despite being "huge huge favourites" in your own words. I find it interesting you using bookies odds as a gauge for favoritism now when you conveniently ignored it when I suggested it was representative of cork being favourites for the Senior game.
On a separate note, it's also intriguing to me that you believe Austin Gleeson should be moved to the forwards given you claimed it would have no impact before the Cork game when I suggested Darragh Fives could come in and He could shove up to offset Mahonys loss. How times have changed.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »Just noting from a few of your posts the following including ones on the 21 thread:
Limerick who lost to Galway who Waterford hammered at minor, and Limerick who had the best team in Ireland in 2014 and still lost to Kilkenny in the All Ireland final and managed to draw with an inferior Waterford team in the Munster final. They'll be strong but dunno that you're asking the same of both teams. Waterford will also have home advantage against anyone they play I think except possibly Limerick which is a big deal. Anyway that's all for next year.
Just one more thing, if we don't deal with favorites tag well can you explain us beating Cork at senior despite being "huge huge favourites" in your own words. I find it interesting you using bookies odds as a gauge for favoritism now when you conveniently ignored it when I suggested it was representative of cork being favourites for the Senior game.
On a separate note, it's also intriguing to me that you believe Austin Gleeson should be moved to the forwards given you claimed it would have no impact before the Cork game when I suggested Darragh Fives could come in and He could shove up to offset Mahonys loss. How times have changed.
You are taking snippets from previous post regards next year and take them out of context to try and form some other view
Regarding next year limerick were beaten by Galway over decision and limerick were excellent minor yes lost kk unlike waterford lost twice won all ireland needed extra time beat Cork plus waterford twice yes twice have flattered decive in against cork last year huge favourite beaten and one to three favourite Wednesdays and beaten
As regards senior game yes as you know rated Gleasson forward point is comparing their injury to cork the time
I'm not going over old ground regards old debate but beating cork in senior I totally as you know expected
Point of interest was Wednesday match
I totally totally agree with your view how times have changed and in particular this huge expectation regard under twenty one and senior with lot believing waterford would win both now in the matter of one week a lot of concerns remain regards waterford having huge work to do and maybe not being as good as they were being talked up to be imo after two losses in a week
If ye beat Dublin best of luck v kk I'll be cheering ye0 -
My team for the Dublin game
1 sok
2 s fives
3 b coughlan
4 n connors
5 d fives
6 t de burca
7 p mahoney
8 J Barron
9 e barrett
10 k moran
11 a gleeson
12 Shane Bennett
13 m shannahan
14 brick
15 c dunford
Stephen Bennett, Tom devine, Jake Dillon, Stephen Daniels in reserve
I'd try gleeson forward but Liam rushe will be a hard man to be marking
Dublin have some top players including a top goalkeeper0 -
My team for the Dublin game
1 sok
2 s fives
3 b coughlan
4 n connors
5 d fives
6 t de burca
7 p mahoney
8 J Barron
9 e barrett
10 k moran
11 a gleeson
12 Shane Bennett
13 m shannahan
14 brick
15 c dunford
Stephen Bennett, Tom devine, Jake Dillon, Stephen Daniels in reserve
I'd try gleeson forward but Liam rushe will be a hard man to be marking
Dublin have some top players including a top goalkeeper
Would like to see
1. SOK
2. S Fives
3. B. Coughlan
4. N Connors
5. D Fives
6. T De Burca
7. P Mahony
8. J Barron
9. K Moran
10. A Gleeson
11. Brick
12. J Dillon
13. P Curran
14. M Shanahan
15. C Dunford
Needs to be always at least a 2 man full forward line and they need to be fed. If Gleeson and Dunford in particular continue to shoot crazy wides instead of playing the ball in to the full forward line then we will lose. Hopefully Peter kelly is not playing as Galway match showed how poor the Dublin full back line is without him. Goals to be got here.
2 Bennetts and Tom Devine to also see game time.
Going to be a tough match. We don't perform when we are favourites and Dublin have some good players such as Kelly, Rushe, Keaney and Dotsy.0 -
Deise Hurler wrote: »Would like to see
1. SOK
2. S Fives
3. B. Coughlan
4. N Connors
5. D Fives
6. T De Burca
7. P Mahony
8. J Barron
9. K Moran
10. A Gleeson
11. Brick
12. J Dillon
13. P Curran
14. M Shanahan
15. C Dunford
Needs to be always at least a 2 man full forward line and they need to be fed. If Gleeson and Dunford in particular continue to shoot crazy wides instead of playing the ball in to the full forward line then we will lose. Hopefully Peter kelly is not playing as Galway match showed how poor the Dublin full back line is without him. Goals to be got here.
2 Bennetts and Tom Devine to also see game time.
Going to be a tough match. We don't perform when we are favourites and Dublin have some good players such as Kelly, Rushe, Keaney and Dotsy.
Outside perspective, but I think that's your best team at the moment definitely.0 -
A very good team and I'd agree and Gleeson up frontDeise Hurler wrote: »Would like to see
1. SOK
2. S Fives
3. B. Coughlan
4. N Connors
5. D Fives
6. T De Burca
7. P Mahony
8. J Barron
9. K Moran
10. A Gleeson
11. Brick
12. J Dillon
13. P Curran
14. M Shanahan
15. C Dunford
Needs to be always at least a 2 man full forward line and they need to be fed. If Gleeson and Dunford in particular continue to shoot crazy wides instead of playing the ball in to the full forward line then we will lose. Hopefully Peter kelly is not playing as Galway match showed how poor the Dublin full back line is without him. Goals to be got here.
2 Bennetts and Tom Devine to also see game time.
Going to be a tough match. We don't perform when we are favourites and Dublin have some good players such as Kelly, Rushe, Keaney and Dotsy.
I have still doubts regards coughlan at full back though0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »A very good team and I'd agree and Gleeson up front
I have still doubts regards coughlan at full back though
Coughlan hasnt put a foot wrong all year. Granted he is protected a bit more by playing a sweeper0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »You are taking snippets from previous post regards next year and take them out of context to try and form some other view
Regarding next year limerick were beaten by Galway over decision and limerick were excellent minor yes lost kk unlike waterford lost twice won all ireland needed extra time beat Cork plus waterford twice yes twice have flattered decive in against cork last year huge favourite beaten and one to three favourite Wednesdays and beaten
As regards senior game yes as you know rated Gleasson forward point is comparing their injury to cork the time
I'm not going over old ground regards old debate but beating cork in senior I totally as you know expected
Point of interest was Wednesday match
I totally totally agree with your view how times have changed and in particular this huge expectation regard under twenty one and senior with lot believing waterford would win both now in the matter of one week a lot of concerns remain regards waterford having huge work to do and maybe not being as good as they were being talked up to be imo after two losses in a week
If ye beat Dublin best of luck v kk I'll be cheering ye
I was going to post the reply to a comment on the u21 thread but didn't want to annoy other counties on there.
Evasive action taken. Circumstances change at your reckoning. I can't have you come on and talk about how Austin Gleeson should go up front and then if he does and plays well you'll talk about how you were right, despite the fact you completely dismissed the exact same change only 6 weeks ago.
You make bold statements and if someone disagrees you go on about your right to your opinion. There's 101 perspectives people can take on any team, game, manager etc.
When people have criticized you on being to forthright before a match for the McGrath cup match your defense was that at least you call it whereas others waited on the sideline, and to be fair there was a valid point there. But you change your opinion regularly with little admission of being wrong initially, loading in the excuses.
Simple question now answer this for me, were you wrong to say moving Austin Gleeson up front would have little positive effect for Waterford before the Munster Semi?0 -
Deise Hurler wrote: »Would like to see
1. SOK
2. S Fives
3. B. Coughlan
4. N Connors
5. D Fives
6. T De Burca
7. P Mahony
8. J Barron
9. K Moran
10. A Gleeson
11. Brick
12. J Dillon
13. P Curran
14. M Shanahan
15. C Dunford
Needs to be always at least a 2 man full forward line and they need to be fed. If Gleeson and Dunford in particular continue to shoot crazy wides instead of playing the ball in to the full forward line then we will lose. Hopefully Peter kelly is not playing as Galway match showed how poor the Dublin full back line is without him. Goals to be got here.
2 Bennetts and Tom Devine to also see game time.
Going to be a tough match. We don't perform when we are favourites and Dublin have some good players such as Kelly, Rushe, Keaney and Dotsy.
I like that team, only thing I'd change is Maurice to 12 and Stephen Bennett for Jake from the start and leave Bennett and Curran inside as the two man full forward line. They'd have plenty of goals in them and we'd have three serious puckout targets in half forward line.0 -
I like that team, only thing I'd change is Maurice to 12 and Stephen Bennett for Jake from the start and leave Bennett and Curran inside as the two man full forward line. They'd have plenty of goals in them and we'd have three serious puckout targets in half forward line.
Stephen Bennett needs to be played as an inside forward or not at all. It kills me to see the way he is being treated by our management teams where he is being made to spill blood and guts running around after defenders out the field. He is in my opinion being completely abused. Management know about his history of hip injuries yet insist on running him into the ground. His confidence looked shot for the u21s on weds night and looks only a pale shadow of the young predator who ripped everything asunder him at minor level. This guy should be wrapped in cotton wool he is one of our most prodigous talents. he should be eased into it from the bench with 5 or 10 mins to go in games and put in on the edge of the square where he WILL do damage and confidence will start to soar again. and i sincerely hope he is not being put through the mill again against dublin next week because im sick of looking at it to be honest with you0 -
robopaddy2 wrote: »Stephen Bennett needs to be played as an inside forward or not at all. It kills me to see the way he is being treated by our management teams where he is being made to spill blood and guts running around after defenders out the field. He is in my opinion being completely abused. Management know about his history of hip injuries yet insist on running him into the ground. His confidence looked shot for the u21s on weds night and looks only a pale shadow of the young predator who ripped everything asunder him at minor level. This guy should be wrapped in cotton wool he is one of our most prodigous talents. he should be eased into it from the bench with 5 or 10 mins to go in games and put in on the edge of the square where he WILL do damage and confidence will start to soar again. and i sincerely hope he is not being put through the mill again against dublin next week because im sick of looking at it to be honest with you
Yep, could not agree more with this. He still doesnt look fully mobile to me, and it's crazy to play a guy who has had the injuries he's had as a workhorse. Esp when he has destroyed teams when left at the edge of the square. He dovetailed so well with Curran at minor too, they've got a great understanding thats tough to coach so put them both in there and let them feed off each other.
Barry Coughlan is one player who has come on alot under this system as ifs afforded him plenty of protection and the chance to build confidence as a result. Our defense is now solid, we have to start tweaking it so as to keep the defense as solid as possible while also adding more of a scoring threat and giving our forwards the same chance to take off and build confidence. At times in the Cork championship game we looked to have found that, we pushed players on and looked like we could have opened up and pulverised them if we needed another gear. We had two men up there at the time, that for me was when we looked the most dangerous this year and I'd love to see us play like that again.0 -
remember Dublin beat us handy in the minor semi final in 2011, We beat them last year in the minor but dublin won the last senior match aganist us (March 2014 NHL relagation playoff).
They will be traning like dogs in the capital and will fancy there chances. Lets hope the pressure of being Favourites dont get to our lads.
The worst thing if its a draw next sunday they will probly play the replay on Sunday 2nd August in Croke Park with the Dublin Footballers playing there QF0 -
No way could you drop Dillon, was one of the few battling against the tide in the first half of the Munster Final. Worth his place.0
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Mountainlad wrote: »No way could you drop Dillon, was one of the few battling against the tide in the first half of the Munster Final. Worth his place.
Agree with you, wouldn't drop Dillon..
Did a lot of work, blocking and tackling which
took it out of him in the second half.
To me, young Dunford is killing us with wides at
vital times in the game, would have replaced him a lot earlier the last day with Shane Bennett
or Paddy Curran , who to me are more accurate
with their shooting..
We won't be able to afford these wides against
Dublin, who will try to make a dogfight of this and be very physical..
Gleeson needs to steady himself as well , some of his shooting and decision making baffles me.0 -
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Yep, could not agree more with this. He still doesnt look fully mobile to me, and it's crazy to play a guy who has had the injuries he's had as a workhorse. Esp when he has destroyed teams when left at the edge of the square. He dovetailed so well with Curran at minor too, they've got a great understanding thats tough to coach so put them both in there and let them feed off each other.
Barry Coughlan is one player who has come on alot under this system as ifs afforded him plenty of protection and the chance to build confidence as a result. Our defense is now solid, we have to start tweaking it so as to keep the defense as solid as possible while also adding more of a scoring threat and giving our forwards the same chance to take off and build confidence. At times in the Cork championship game we looked to have found that, we pushed players on and looked like we could have opened up and pulverised them if we needed another gear. We had two men up there at the time, that for me was when we looked the most dangerous this year and I'd love to see us play like that again.
I think you could also apply this to Dunford. Players like Bennett and Dunford are asked to be workhorses far from goal in order to protect the defence. Dunfords performances are being affected in my view by being asked to play as a supplementary midfielder , half back and half forward at times.
At the same time our backs are winning all the praise for playing to a system designed to protect them. We need to play our best forward s closer to goal.0
This discussion has been closed.
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