Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

JesusRef

mickotallow wrote: »

Would the same be said if it was Ballyduff, Tallow or FMW were in the relegation battle. DLS and Lismore are in the relegation play-off (refuse to call it a final) because they are the two worst teams in the championship this year. How can losing 1 of 2 teams who have won 1 and drawn 2 games between them all year weaken the championship? We've been complaining for years that the intermediate champions go straight back down every year yet when they stay up we say it'll be bad for the championship. Teams can't live off past glories and have a right to be senior because of history. Excuses are being made for both teams.

DLS.
In-fighting
Too many players on Waterford duty etc.

Lismore
Retirement
Injuries
Emigration

All excuses. Every club has issues to deal with. It's part and parcel of running a senior hurling club. We have a small squad in Tallow and we've lost a large number of players to emigration and injury over last few years which would severely strengthen our squad. But that's just a fact of life. And as for retirement! Well if teams are complaining bout lads not playing cos they've gotten on in life I don't know where we're at. Maybe we should get the 85 county winning team from Tallow to tog out this weekend. All these issues depend on how they are managed by the management teams. Can't say I know anything about DLS management but something has to be rotten in that camp. And I think based on last two games if Dave Bennett had been in charge all year Lismore probably wouldn't be in this situation.

If anything I think it'll be a wake up call to all senior teams that you can't take any game for granted or you could end up in relegation trouble. This'll add more bite to games if anything.

And before I'm accused of being anti-Lismore just let me stare that I hope Lismore stay up. Relegation for Lismore (as satisfying as it would be) would not be of any benefit to Tallow or hurling in the west. Local derbies are great for the game as they generate great excitement and interest. Losing this will not help Tallow to improve. Only look better in comparison.

What I mean is the championship will be diluted with Cappoquin there, they are by far the worst team and I have seen a few of their games - granted you could say that they deserve to stay up because they beat Lismore but they don't, they got hammered in nearly every game and will again next year as well - how is that any good for the championship?

deiseach

JesusRef wrote: »

What I mean is the championship will be diluted with Cappoquin there, they are by far the worst team and I have seen a few of their games - granted you could say that they deserve to stay up because they beat Lismore but they don't, they got hammered in nearly every game and will again next year as well - how is that any good for the championship?

What do you think should happen?

JesusRef

deiseach wrote: »

What do you think should happen?

I'm not saying anything should happen, just expressing it's bad that a team so out of their depths stay up on the basis of what now looks like a freak result - is that off limits or something?

deisedude

JesusRef wrote: »

What I mean is the championship will be diluted with Cappoquin there, they are by far the worst team and I have seen a few of their games - granted you could say that they deserve to stay up because they beat Lismore but they don't, they got hammered in nearly every game and will again next year as well - how is that any good for the championship?

If they beat Lismore and Lismore couldn't get enough points to move above them in table then I can't see how Cappoquin are the worst team.

Do some of ye lads think that in other counties all the teams are competitive? Because you are deluded if you do think that

deisedude

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As regards mcgrath contract my own view is he deserved an extension absoultey and I had doubt last year buthe's done good to a degree but a three year one imo is too much when they should have learned from limerick last year
Last year limerick gave on one season and a moral victory v kk Ryan a full three year term
I said it then it made no logic as limerick would have backed themselves in corner in things went wrong
On limerick thread now many who felt it was great call suddenly changed view now

Limerick players wanted new back room staff and Kinnerk turned them down and there having difficulty getting a top coach as of yet
Point is limerick ccb who rushed through term last year now can't very well end term before time

Waterford should learned and yes waterford made progress however still nothing was actually won, kk clearly had no interest in the league, the league last year was not a great barometer for championship so to give three year extension I think is risky
I would given him another year in total two with all ireland final being goal and if achieved then I extend contract hugely
Waterford now have given themselves no room to move if things go wrong next year have stay with him


I don't see how he needs three years from now to build on when already had two years already and surely next two years will define if he's got tactics to move to the next level

I'm not just in waterford case but any county against huge contract extension when no need them and lot of things needing be done
People think McGrath would walk away unless got new term
My view is he would not if got two years and if so then we'll that he's choice then but I doubt he would as he put huge work waterford he'll want finish it out and if he left not like soccer not many other top jobs availability join

Cork don't do outside manager
Tipperary's have management and limerick also
Clare are sorted and Galway probably keep Cunningham
So the chances mcgrath joining another county is slim
Waterford have showed nothing to say they can bridge the gap to kk and huge worry is kk who up last week were vulnerable have now built new team leaders it will take something special to beat them
What waterford need is under twenty one success next year and to maintain division one status and new slightly tweaked game plan
Also for those that are interested cork play Waterford in cork league February 20 under light on a Saturday night in cork in hurling

TTM Do you think these contracts really mean anything anyway? If we end up being beat by Laois and Antrim next year do you think Derek will remain in the job?

JesusRef

deisedude wrote: »

If they beat Lismore and Lismore couldn't get enough points to move above them in table then I can't see how Cappoquin are the worst team.

Do some of ye lads think that in other counties all the teams are competitive? Because you are deluded if you do think that

Did you watch any of their games?

deiseach

JesusRef wrote: »

I'm not saying anything should happen, just expressing it's bad that a team so out of their depths stay up on the basis of what now looks like a freak result - is that off limits or something?

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm a little surprised at how strongly you are expressing it though. Can you seen no good in what has unfolded?

PTH2009

when will the 2016 NHL fixtures be announced.

If we go by the fixtures Clare (who got relagated this year) we will play Cork, Galway and Kilkenny at home and Dublin and Tipp away.

As league Champions we should get a date in Croke Park vs Dublin but i dont think it will happen

deisedude

JesusRef wrote: »

Did you watch any of their games?

Did you not get my point? However bad Cappoquin may have been Lismore still finished below them in the table and deserve to be in the relegation playoff

thinkstoomuch1

PTH2009 wrote: »

when will the 2016 NHL fixtures be announced.

If we go by the fixtures Clare (who got relagated this year) we will play Cork, Galway and Kilkenny at home and Dublin and Tipp away.

As league Champions we should get a date in Croke Park vs Dublin but i dont think it will happen

There out provision since weekend
Yere playing cork in cork Saturday evening Feb twenty
Cork ist game is Galway away

thinkstoomuch1

deisedude wrote: »

TTM Do you think these contracts really mean anything anyway? If we end up being beat by Laois and Antrim next year do you think Derek will remain in the job?

I do think they have a purpose yes in have no doubt for example limerick hadn't given Ryan this new contract and allowed he's term be up review he wouldn't be there next year in once term up easy get new management in
Limerick ccb know this two well and that's why Ryan staying on as he's term three year despite local media saying some players unhappy performance etc
Imo it makes no logic to give manager another three years term with one left in sends wrong message to all involved in saying anything goes in like one poster said one bad season one good season but still only fifty per cent championship win ratio get total new term that basis

It's like there saying last year was great
Sometimes when things are bad any progress is completely over hyped
Waterford made progress in were terrible year before however bar league nothing championship was one


League seemed to be catalyst waterford getting huge praise
In camoige we even saw it last week Galway beating cork meant nothing in championship
Cork ladies beaten by kerry in munster football but championship is different
Waterford league was good to a point but kk clearly showed no interest league as we're in transition and for first time years league wasn't priority with club scene etc

Championship is what should be the real gauge and I certainly wouldn't be giving any manager any county three year term with year left on two out four championship wins

He has one year left so yes to provide stability add another year
That's more then enough in by then he'll had four years to build etc and if management don't win four years or get all ireland final unlikely will have after then as if you stay too long with out success you run risk of out growing any team and that can happen even best management with out success
A lot can change in one year and imo four years give to management is very very brave call
If it comes off its brilliant if it doesn't waterford have no room to manoeuvre as it's very hard in some cases end management terms half way through after giving him there confidence by handing him new term

DeiseDawg

deisedude wrote: »

TTM Do you think these contracts really mean anything anyway? If we end up being beat by Laois and Antrim next year do you think Derek will remain in the job?

Laois, Antrim?????

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Waterford have showed nothing to say they can bridge the gap to kk

What does this actually mean? I've seen it a few times now. Are you saying in the few weeks since Waterford lost to Kilkenny they've show no sign of bridging the gap?

Or are you comparing to last year, where:

1. The gap was wholly irrelevant, if we were talking about that gap after the Wexford game you'd be laughed at and told to focus on more immediate concerns i.e. losing to Wexford

2. If you are, that gap has reduced dramatically in fairness.

huge worry is kk who up last week were vulnerable have now built new team leaders it will take something special to beat them

That is absolute bollocks now. In what way were they vulnerable? In the space of their last 4 championship games, they comfortably beat the 3 other best teams in the Country this year and also laced Wexford. So how in god's name, having gotten Fennelly back and Power on the bench, could they possibly have been vulnerable last weekend?

Who are these new leaders as well by the way? Larkin, Mick Fennelly and TJ Reid were the lads that won them the game.

archieknox

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning the u13 eastern titles in both grade A and B. At minor they hammered Dungarvan by 8 goals. Just aswell all those teams in the west are keeping their identities that's the main thing!!

Gavlor

archieknox wrote: »

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning the u13 eastern titles in both grade A and B. At minor they hammered Dungarvan by 8 goals. Just aswell all those teams in the west are keeping their identities that's the main thing!!

Not sure if passage u13s will appreciate your quote.....

conditioned games

archieknox wrote: »

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning the u13 eastern titles in both grade A and B. At minor they hammered Dungarvan by 8 goals. Just aswell all those teams in the west are keeping their identities that's the main thing!!

Ballygunner won the U13 A and C division in the east while passage won the B. Ballygunner have far too big a catchment area to pick from. It's time Dunmore East sets up its own hurling club. There is about 1,800 living in the village and another 2,000 in its immediate area from woodstown to waterford airport. Ballygunner gaa pitch is part of the city now with a big expansion of population in that area over the last 25 yrs. Both Dunmore East and Ballygunner could support 2 senior teams.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

What does this actually mean? I've seen it a few times now. Are you saying in the few weeks since Waterford lost to Kilkenny they've show no sign of bridging the gap?

Or are you comparing to last year, where:

1. The gap was wholly irrelevant, if we were talking about that gap after the Wexford game you'd be laughed at and told to focus on more immediate concerns i.e. losing to Wexford

2. If you are, that gap has reduced dramatically in fairness.



That is absolute bollocks now. In what way were they vulnerable? In the space of their last 4 championship games, they comfortably beat the 3 other best teams in the Country this year and also laced Wexford. So how in god's name, having gotten Fennelly back and Power on the bench, could they possibly have been vulnerable last weekend?

Who are these new leaders as well by the way? Larkin, Mick Fennelly and TJ Reid were the lads that won them the game.

I never mentioned the other players you named
It was widely recognised that kk if any time going be beaten was last week as you may have forgotten fair enough but you do realise jj delaney absoultey greatest ever full back missing and holden ist main year and prengersat and course add alwaryd who got three points these new breed kk players coming in to replace delaney shefflin etc

All these players will be hugely improved again next year and cody is now building another kk team and kk are going to win next year and indeed hugely challenge five row

I said start year kk would be team beat again but I made crucial error go against them final
I felt like indeed pundits like considine clare last week time beat them

If you honestly think waterford closed gap kk well each to there own your entitled to your opinion fair enough
However logic would actually say yes waterford are top four however the rest pack are average and if Galway played waterford there's good reason belive Galway would won

Waterford have a system but tippeary beat that system as considine said in he's article with real ease and kk not exactly full throttle dismissed waterford with ease
There is nothing to say waterford closed gap
One swallow never made a summer
Championship has been good to a point but waterford in two big games never showed anything show could win those games
You even said yourself you wouldn't given management such long contract
My point is to give management what's now four more years really based one season that was good doesn't really make sense
Does that mean that's standard every team, do that management get huge term

Fitzmaurice kerry hasn't even got that yet and he's successful
Cody every year decides what he does
Its good to keep things simple as no complacent sets in
To give management new three years on top one left allows complacency set in imo
If he'd won all ireland he probably got six years if going by waterford rational
If waterford got all ireland final fair enough but progress and that's all it was was made this year
Waterford certainly have so far not done anything great
They came from huge low previous year but shouldn't been that bad then, that doesn't mean that cause there doing better this year it's great
It's progress but I wouldn't get carried away
Limerick proved that
Armagh football thought that last year after running Donegal to point
Each year is a challenge
Two years are better to judge teams imo

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I never mentioned the other players you named
It was widely recognised that kk if any time going be beaten was last week as you may have forgotten fair enough but you do realise jj delaney absoultey greatest ever full back missing and holden ist main year and prengersat and course add alwaryd who got three points these new breed kk players coming in to replace delaney shefflin etc

All these players will be hugely improved again next year and cody is now building another kk team and kk are going to win next year and indeed hugely challenge five row

I said start year kk would be team beat again but I made crucial error go against them final
I felt like indeed pundits like considine clare last week time beat them

If you honestly think waterford closed gap kk well each to there own your entitled to your opinion fair enough
However logic would actually say yes waterford are top four however the rest pack are average and if Galway played waterford there's good reason belive Galway would won

Waterford have a system but tippeary beat that system as considine said in he's article with real ease and kk not exactly full throttle dismissed waterford with ease
There is nothing to say waterford closed gap
One swallow never made a summer
Championship has been good to a point but waterford in two big games never showed anything show could win those games
You even said yourself you wouldn't given management such long contract
My point is to give management what's now four more years really based one season that was good doesn't really make sense
Does that mean that's standard every team, do that management get huge term

Fitzmaurice kerry hasn't even got that yet and he's successful
Cody every year decides what he does
Its good to keep things simple as no complacent sets in
To give management new three years on top one left allows complacency set in imo
If he'd won all ireland he probably got six years if going by waterford rational
If waterford got all ireland final fair enough but progress and that's all it was was made this year
Waterford certainly have so far not done anything great
They came from huge low previous year but shouldn't been that bad then, that doesn't mean that cause there doing better this year it's great
It's progress but I wouldn't get carried away
Limerick proved that
Armagh football thought that last year after running Donegal to point
Each year is a challenge
Two years are better to judge teams imo

Kilkenny haven't a hope of winning 5 in a row.

Armagh football and Waterford hurling have no correlation. It's time to stop comparing apples and oranges.

Prendergast is 29 so he won't be improving dramatically. In fairness, we've a much more favourable age profile than Limerick had last year. We've also had our manager in place for two years now, not half a year so it's fair to say there's been more time to assess his performance and it looks really good.

What gap are you on about exactly? The gap between Waterford and Kilkenny last year compared to this year? That's what I would have assumed, honestly how could you possibly conclude that that gap has not closed?

I don't have a huge issue with what you're saying about the contract, only that you are definitely overstating it (as usual). It's the ráiméis to go with it that I have a problem with.

Eddie Barrett started against Tipp, Darragh Fives was there for the Kilkenny game. Shane Bennett outperformed his brother and took over after. If we had that team out in the Munster final we may have won, we weren't far away at all despite what you said. I'm not too bothered anyway though now because to be honest I see there is plenty of room for improvement in Waterford. There isn't in Tipp on the panel they have now in my opinion and the manager.


Don't see it in Kilkenny either, but they won;t fall away much off the standard they're at now in the next 2 or 3 years so yes you are right it will take a special effort to beat them. I believe though that Waterford are potentially capable of it. I can't see that there is anyone out there that would be better than McGrath for the Waterford job who'd realistically be a candidate. Even in general, with the exception of Cody I don't think I'd want anyone else in charge to be honest. So no harm tying him down for 4 years.

mickotallow

archieknox wrote: »

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning the u13 eastern titles in both grade A and B. At minor they hammered Dungarvan by 8 goals. Just aswell all those teams in the west are keeping their identities that's the main thing!!

For the love of god get off your soapbox. We get it. You think all clubs further west than Dungarvan are not worthy to classify themselves in the same breath as your beloved Dungarvan. At least us clubs in the west know our identity. We know what we stand for and have people in our club who strive everyday to make our club better for the next generation. Not trying to buy a county title or import players from so called lesser clubs because ye feel ye have a divine to.

I'm telling you now that is not a player in our squad who would walk away from our club to play for another team on the off chance they could win a county title. Even if we went down to Junior. Lads play for their team, their teammates and their friends and family. That is what identity is.

And if you think the fact Ballygunner have won 2 u13 county titles will make us question whether we should row into your grand plan of disbanding all clubs in the west then you obviously don't know what being part of a real club is.

JesusRef

archieknox wrote: »

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning the u13 eastern titles in both grade A and B. At minor they hammered Dungarvan by 8 goals. Just aswell all those teams in the west are keeping their identities that's the main thing!!

Well most of amalgamated at underage i.e U13 and they still can't beat Ballygunnar

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Kilkenny haven't a hope of winning 5 in a row.

Armagh football and Waterford hurling have no correlation. It's time to stop comparing apples and oranges.

Prendergast is 29 so he won't be improving dramatically. In fairness, we've a much more favourable age profile than Limerick had last year. We've also had our manager in place for two years now, not half a year so it's fair to say there's been more time to assess his performance and it looks really good.

What gap are you on about exactly? The gap between Waterford and Kilkenny last year compared to this year? That's what I would have assumed, honestly how could you possibly conclude that that gap has not closed?

I don't have a huge issue with what you're saying about the contract, only that you are definitely overstating it (as usual). It's the ráiméis to go with it that I have a problem with.

Eddie Barrett started against Tipp, Darragh Fives was there for the Kilkenny game. Shane Bennett outperformed his brother and took over after. If we had that team out in the Munster final we may have won, we weren't far away at all despite what you said. I'm not too bothered anyway though now because to be honest I see there is plenty of room for improvement in Waterford. There isn't in Tipp on the panel they have now in my opinion and the manager.


Don't see it in Kilkenny either, but they won;t fall away much off the standard they're at now in the next 2 or 3 years so yes you are right it will take a special effort to beat them. I believe though that Waterford are potentially capable of it. I can't see that there is anyone out there that would be better than McGrath for the Waterford job who'd realistically be a candidate. Even in general, with the exception of Cody I don't think I'd want anyone else in charge to be honest. So no harm tying him down for 4 years.

Armagh point was that one year improvement means nothing if next year fails away
You probably heard second season syndrome surely
Four years tieing him down in all fairness he's hardly going any where now let's be realistic
There's no available top jobs available

Kk have every chance winning five in a row
Your the very one that expected limerick with tj Ryan to challenge this year after last year yet you find it hard to believe the greatest manager around won't win next three with kk
There's absolutely nothing to touch kk next year
Limerick have problems getting a coach
Kinnerk if doesn't go clare probably means clare won't challenge only team imo that would
Tippeary we both agree management and players in period transition
Cork depending who comes in management
Dublin now with cunningjham doing coaching next year with boland gone will be stronger with possession game but won't beat kk
Galway under cunningjham cody now has there number just like he has with tipp
Cunningjham good manager but Galway need a change


Munster is poor and on any given day either teams beat each other
The media will try convince us that series challenge to kk but come august kk will prove like last few years munster winning championship means nothing to all ireland
You said it yourself mcgrath is there two years already
That's my point he doesn't need another four
At present he's best man available but who knows in two years who would become available
The gap between kk and waterford imo hasn't closed in yes waterford made progress last year but kk after win sunday moved up again
Waterford won't just rock on croke park beat kk until such time win munster under twenty one and all ireland and learn deal expectations as there steps need be taken as loughsnne said that teams fighting traditional teams have huge barriers to overcome to beat kk who accustomed success year on year
For waterford do what few team done beat kk croke park they need win under twenty one ist
If they don't do that it's unrealistic expect them beat kk in senior
I think to expect waterford beat kk next year too soon
Yes the talent is there and foundations be laid but next step often hardest one to evolve system so time will tell
We actually agree some point but I'll agree to disagree on others point with you
All in all I fully agree he deserves contract extension but my point was four years no real benefit to it and it simply could be renewed again in two years after another performance review

carter10

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As regards mcgrath contract my own view is he deserved an extension absoultey and I had doubt last year buthe's done good to a degree but a three year one imo is too much when they should have learned from limerick last year
Last year limerick gave on one season and a moral victory v kk Ryan a full three year term
I said it then it made no logic as limerick would have backed themselves in corner in things went wrong
On limerick thread now many who felt it was great call suddenly changed view now

Limerick players wanted new back room staff and Kinnerk turned them down and there having difficulty getting a top coach as of yet
Point is limerick ccb who rushed through term last year now can't very well end term before time

Waterford should learned and yes waterford made progress however still nothing was actually won, kk clearly had no interest in the league, the league last year was not a great barometer for championship so to give three year extension I think is risky
I would given him another year in total two with all ireland final being goal and if achieved then I extend contract hugely
Waterford now have given themselves no room to move if things go wrong next year have stay with him


I don't see how he needs three years from now to build on when already had two years already and surely next two years will define if he's got tactics to move to the next level

I'm not just in waterford case but any county against huge contract extension when no need them and lot of things needing be done
People think McGrath would walk away unless got new term
My view is he would not if got two years and if so then we'll that he's choice then but I doubt he would as he put huge work waterford he'll want finish it out and if he left not like soccer not many other top jobs availability join

Cork don't do outside manager
Tipperary's have management and limerick also
Clare are sorted and Galway probably keep Cunningham
So the chances mcgrath joining another county is slim
Waterford have showed nothing to say they can bridge the gap to kk and huge worry is kk who up last week were vulnerable have now built new team leaders it will take something special to beat them
What waterford need is under twenty one success next year and to maintain division one status and new slightly tweaked game plan
Also for those that are interested cork play Waterford in cork league February 20 under light on a Saturday night in cork in hurling

thinkstoomuch1

carter10 wrote: »

No relevance at all to the debate
Keep it hurling, I have no interest talking politics, hurling is my interest. If I did I'd go to the politics thread.

tomwaterford

I do think Clare have serious talent at three disposal and have under achieved with what they have.

If any team was built to challenge kk...it's Clare everyone is v.skilful ball winners all over the pitch


Waterford realistically are 2-3 years away from winning an all Ireland though I'd be happy to knock kk out just once


Waterford a mile to light to beat them man to man...though this can be overcome...see what Maurice Shanahan has become...light and gangly to pure strong....no one will knock him from the ball too easy now

archieknox

mickotallow wrote: »

For the love of god get off your soapbox. We get it. You think all clubs further west than Dungarvan are not worthy to classify themselves in the same breath as your beloved Dungarvan. At least us clubs in the west know our identity. We know what we stand for and have people in our club who strive everyday to make our club better for the next generation. Not trying to buy a county title or import players from so called lesser clubs because ye feel ye have a divine to.

I'm telling you now that is not a player in our squad who would walk away from our club to play for another team on the off chance they could win a county title. Even if we went down to Junior. Lads play for their team, their teammates and their friends and family. That is what identity is.

And if you think the fact Ballygunner have won 2 u13 county titles will make us question whether we should row into your grand plan of disbanding all clubs in the west then you obviously don't know what being part of a real club is.

You seem to have an obsession with this transfer thing and Dungarvan. Il tell you what when ye are coming down Sunday night bring Ned's statue back home!!

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Armagh point was that one year improvement means nothing if next year fails away
You probably heard second season syndrome surely
Four years tieing him down in all fairness he's hardly going any where now let's be realistic
There's no available top jobs available

Kk have every chance winning five in a row
Your the very one that expected limerick with tj Ryan to challenge this year after last year yet you find it hard to believe the greatest manager around won't win next three with kk
There's absolutely nothing to touch kk next year
Limerick have problems getting a coach
Kinnerk if doesn't go clare probably means clare won't challenge only team imo that would
Tippeary we both agree management and players in period transition
Cork depending who comes in management
Dublin now with cunningjham doing coaching next year with boland gone will be stronger with possession game but won't beat kk
Galway under cunningjham cody now has there number just like he has with tipp
Cunningjham good manager but Galway need a change


Munster is poor and on any given day either teams beat each other
The media will try convince us that series challenge to kk but come august kk will prove like last few years munster winning championship means nothing to all ireland
You said it yourself mcgrath is there two years already
That's my point he doesn't need another four
At present he's best man available but who knows in two years who would become available
The gap between kk and waterford imo hasn't closed in yes waterford made progress last year but kk after win sunday moved up again
Waterford won't just rock on croke park beat kk until such time win munster under twenty one and all ireland and learn deal expectations as there steps need be taken as loughsnne said that teams fighting traditional teams have huge barriers to overcome to beat kk who accustomed success year on year
For waterford do what few team done beat kk croke park they need win under twenty one ist
If they don't do that it's unrealistic expect them beat kk in senior
I think to expect waterford beat kk next year too soon
Yes the talent is there and foundations be laid but next step often hardest one to evolve system so time will tell
We actually agree some point but I'll agree to disagree on others point with you
All in all I fully agree he deserves contract extension but my point was four years no real benefit to it and it simply could be renewed again in two years after another performance review

Second season syndrome, for the love of god. You do realize this is McGrath's third year? Spare me the cliches now, they are far from insightful.

Who exactly do you think will be available in two years time that would be better?

I'm not saying we're going to beat Kilkenny next year, I might remind you though that making assertions about the following year this early is a very bad idea. I shouldn't really have to remind you though.

I am certain Kilkenny will not 5 in a row, a real analysis of the last 5 championships and their teams age profile along with the talent in other counties will tell that. It would not be wise to stick rigidly to what happened the previous year as a method of forecasting future results. There was to be some element of judgement on the variables at play. Nobody has ever done 5 in a row, while I was very impressed with Kilkenny this year, I fully expected them to beat Galway handy in the final. Got a bit carried away with our own chances in the semi, but that happens to everyone. Logically, I did think they were the most likely winners though. But given I thought Galway were going to be bet soundly, which really wasn't all that an astute judgement, I am not overeacting to the manner of Kilkenn'y victory the way some are.

If Shefflin, JJ, Tommy Walsh, Brennan, Larkin, Fennelly, Hickey etc could not win 5 in a row then nobody can. Kilkenny are getting the most out of their senior players and the rest are contributing a bit, but they were lucky enough with injuries this year too. They will be right up there year on year, but they'll be beaten in the next 3 years. I am full sure of that.

mickotallow

archieknox wrote: »

You seem to have an obsession with this transfer thing and Dungarvan. Il tell you what when ye are coming down Sunday night bring Ned's statue back home!!

Touché. Well played. Issue is not really with transfer thing or Dungarvan. Even though it does go against my idea of how clubs should be run. My issue is the way you come across with the belief that clubs in the west should recognise their place and forfeit the senior status because you feel they don't belong. To hell with competition where you fight for what's yours. It's not so long ago that Dungarvan were intermediate. How would you take it if someone said ye don't deserve to be senior could they believe you couldn't win a county title. Facts are that only 1 team every year can win the county. So what, should every other team just go down to intermediate. I am proud that Tallow have been senior since 1987. We take great pride in fighting against the odds and retaining our status every year and qualifying for quarter finals at least when we are tipped for relegation every year. That is my issue. That you constantly preach that we should have no place in senior competition. We'll see how you feel after Sunday night.

PTH2009

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

There out provision since weekend
Yere playing cork in cork Saturday evening Feb twenty
Cork ist game is Galway away

What are the fixtures. Feb 14 were playing kilkenny in Walsh park. Galway at home last

thinkstoomuch1

Fair enough you make good points in some cases.
My last word on this as we won't agree is though and I think you will agree this point management crucial winning all ireland now in the modern game.

Management is absolutely crucial imo with tactics.
Kilkenny have a huge advantage here with cody. If he stays it looks good for kk.
Yes things may change but I can't see any management out there stop cody.
Getting position win five row be harder than winning fifth in kk have chance do it they will just like failed three row once, they didn't second time.
Yes shefflin etc great but it's foolish naive say kk can't do things as kk do the impossible.

Shefflin etc gone etc but doesn't mean kk won't do it.
Such kk also leinster almost guarantees all ireland quarter final each year worst so three games year worst mileage clock won't matter Reid etc and larkin proved as many before hunger never problem kk and yes cody won't admit it but look he's won everything game, five row will drive him on.


Fair play for admitting you got bit carried away with the semi final v Kilkenny.
You did alright to be fair, but as I told you and no I was not having dig at waterford for the sake of it, just trying to bring touch balance and realism to the debate waterford were never going to beat Kilkenny this year.
What was noticeable was how some pundits who were praising waterford as contenders all year suddenly changed view and were fast to criticise waterford system after the loss.
Even with cork to be fair I always say caution with one victory,in one win means nothing.
We saw it with mayo.
Media went in to over drive with hype mayo and brolly who normally is right and o rourke couldn't see mayo loosing replay.
As I correctly said Dublin would win as amid hype there clear signs they had problems.
Suddenly they loose and now talk in mayo is problem within management etc.
My point is some times people get carried away despite logic showing other wise.
Kk however are the one exception, you can get carried away as year on year mainly there consistent and when expected and the need is greatest they deliver and any challenge or injury or key players out they adapt better than any other teams in the Country.
So it's fair to justify people getting carried away with greatest team and greatest ever management in history of hurling.


What management team going out fox him.
Clare you don't rate Fitzgerald as manager.
He's there one more year at least
New manager is probably unlikely to win an all ireland in year one if they get a new one.
Limerick have Ryan involved next year, possibly longer even.
Again new management would take two years at leastto win the all ireland.
Imo better position waterford if management sorted in yes won all ireland under sixteen like waterford, but while didn't win minor, have got final, and won all ireland under twenty one and would but hawk eye been two minor final row
Beaten waterford regularly under age minor etc
Tipperary's you agree new management lot doubts remain is it fresh voice needed
Galway under cunningjham won't beat cody now as cody has he's number I think.
He's there next year, but no one knows new management but again from next year at best take two years new management win it build team etc.
Cork, are way off and we could be longer if we get management wrong.

Yes there's a lot variables to consider and I agree it's premature but based on fact it will take great manager beat cody, option available are slim so it's realistic kk could win five row
Players like holden who I doubted would make full back, cody again proved turns them in to outstanding player so cody will continue to do that.
Dublin have cunningjham who to be fair has successfully beaten kk previous cork team however it remains be seen the talent available coming through.
If any team will ever do five row, as it definitely won't be done in football, it's going to be hurling if anything and kk are best chance as have outstanding consistent hunger with greatest manager ever with superb tactical mind who always evolved team and is ruthless so it certainly isn't far fetched to say kk can't win the next three in a row.
In my opinion hurling the past few years was stronger but won't be the next few years outside of kk so it's certainly laudable to suggest kk could dominate.
That's my view on, we may disagree, but fair enough, as I said I'll agree to disagree.

DiscoStew

deisedude wrote: »

Did you not get my point? However bad Cappoquin may have been Lismore still finished below them in the table and deserve to be in the relegation playoff

I think what he may be alluding to is the fact that Lismore were competitive, or even relatively so, in the majority of their games. Cappoquin on the other hand have received some hammerings from Mt Sion, Dungarvan and Passage.
Cappoquin showed great determination and no little skill to overturn Lismore but if Maurice hadn't been injured they could have been in for another hammering. Lismore lead by 7 shortly before half time when he went off and had been causing all sorts of problems. Credit to Cappoquin for getting the victory and surviving, especially given the upheaval at the club this year. Maybe they can build on it next year, especially if differences can be put aside.