Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

DeiseDawg

Jamie barron the best player on display in fraher field last night. Mighty impressed with conor gleeson, when he came on. martin f o neill and eoin mcgrath impressed for mt sion. Maurice shanahan's freetaking is superb, fouling lismore is handing them scores. something gone very wrong with de la salle, and it has to be inside their own camp.
Mt sion ballygunner and the relegation game should be crackers.

mickotallow

Just wondering what all those people who were looking for revamp of senior championship are thinking now. A lot of this was aimed at teams from the west being uncompetitive. From the outset general opinion was that the relegation would be between two western teams. Will there now be questions asked of DLS's ambitions and future? Will the theory that teams go through peaks and troughs be so easily dismissed now. Ballyduff and Fourmilewater both looked in relegation trouble on round 3 yet both qualified. Teams were too easily written off because they were perceived as having no chance of winning the county. DLS beat Ballygunner in round 3 and still thought to be potential county challengers yet are now in relegation. That alone should prove that this has been a competitive championship so far and no matter how the rest of the season pans out the structure in place should not be changed.

DeiseDawg

mickotallow wrote: »

Just wondering what all those people who were looking for revamp of senior championship are thinking now. A lot of this was aimed at teams from the west being uncompetitive. From the outset general opinion was that the relegation would be between two western teams. Will there now be questions asked of DLS's ambitions and future? Will the theory that teams go through peaks and troughs be so easily dismissed now. Ballyduff and Fourmilewater both looked in relegation trouble on round 3 yet both qualified. Teams were too easily written off because they were perceived as having no chance of winning the county. DLS beat Ballygunner in round 3 and still thought to be potential county challengers yet are now in relegation. That alone should prove that this has been a competitive championship so far and no matter how the rest of the season pans out the structure in place should not be changed.

Agreed - This has been a competitive championship. The permutations and possibilities of last night's games showed the structure of the county championship in waterford is a good one.

Mountainlad

Its a very good structure and the only possible improvement you could make is to have only 3 qualify for the knockout stages but then youd have two teams waiting a long tiime for a semi, and the current structure also gives 2 more teams and extra game.

deisedude

Any match reports from yesterday's games?

mickotallow

deisedude wrote: »

Any match reports from yesterday's games?

Tallow v Ballygunner was a good tough competitive game played in a very good pitch in Bushy Park. More games should be played there. Barry O Sullivan and Conor Power were probably the stand out attackers for BG. Phillip O Mahony was steady as ever in the back line. James Murray, Paul O Brien and young Ryan Grey were probably stand out for Tallow. Tallow had all the goal chances but were unable to convert any. Level 8pts each at half time BG raced into a 4 pt lead early in second half but Tallow came back to 1pt. However BG pulled away in the end. Ref was a bit too strict for my liking and didn't allow game to get into a pattern which was unfortunate. Main gripe I would have is the amount of time BG sub keeper took with all his puckouts. Took way too long and first half felt like just waiting for him to puckout the ball. Ref didn't say a word once. Prob within rules what keeper did but def affected game from a spectators point of view. But then again I am biased. BG still up there as team to beat.

Mountainlad

Well done to the girls, theyve come from Junior yo Senior in only a few short years if I'm not mistaken? No easy feat.

Royal Legend

Mountainlad wrote: »

Well done to the girls, theyve come from Junior yo Senior in only a few short years if I'm not mistaken? No easy feat.

Not only that, but it shows what can be done by developing underage structures. if I am not mistaken, DLS and Roanmore Camoige were only formed six years ago and they have over the last few years produced u16, minor and Senior winning AI players as well at schools level.

Well done to all concerned, Deise Abu

JesusRef

Well done to the Camogie girls, they played their hearts out! Junior in 2011 now senior!!
Hopefully every school will be visited and young girls inspired to play all over the county.
Up the deise

archieknox

mickotallow wrote: »

Just wondering what all those people who were looking for revamp of senior championship are thinking now. A lot of this was aimed at teams from the west being uncompetitive. From the outset general opinion was that the relegation would be between two western teams. Will there now be questions asked of DLS's ambitions and future? Will the theory that teams go through peaks and troughs be so easily dismissed now. Ballyduff and Fourmilewater both looked in relegation trouble on round 3 yet both qualified. Teams were too easily written off because they were perceived as having no chance of winning the county. DLS beat Ballygunner in round 3 and still thought to be potential county challengers yet are now in relegation. That alone should prove that this has been a competitive championship so far and no matter how the rest of the season pans out the structure in place should not be changed.

Its camouflage at best. For most of those teams left in the q/finals its another week extra in the championship and then that's it. I suppose if you're happy with that then it passes as a successful year and everyone is happy but Il give you some of the results have been strange this year none more so than DLS. A previous post claims it must be an internal problem because looking at their squad there is no way they should be where they ended up. I still expect them to beat Lismore comfortably when it comes down to it. At the end of the day when the shadow boxing is over and the real hurling starts from the semi final stage I would expect the winners to come from Ballygunner,Passage or Dungarvan. Nothing I have seen all weekend points to anything else.

Mountainlad

archieknox wrote: »

Its camouflage at best. For most of those teams left in the q/finals its another week extra in the championship and then that's it. I suppose if you're happy with that then it passes as a successful year and everyone is happy but Il give you some of the results have been strange this year none more so than DLS. A previous post claims it must be an internal problem because looking at their squad there is no way they should be where they ended up. I still expect them to beat Lismore comfortably when it comes down to it. At the end of the day when the shadow boxing is over and the real hurling starts from the semi final stage I would expect the winners to come from Ballygunner,Passage or Dungarvan. Nothing I have seen all weekend points to anything else.

You said last year it was between the 'big 4'. DLS are gone, and obviously Mt Sion don't measure up in your view.

Would the fact that in 2008 both Passage and Dungarvan were Intermediate sides not be a fair endorsement of the Senior championship? If the structures had been changed then, do you think Dungarvan or Passage would be where they are now? Not sure they would myself. Ballygunner have won 4 u21 hurling titles in a row. You can change the structure whatever way you want, they will be there or thereabouts every year. They are far from bullet proof though w/o Mahony and with an average manager in charge.

I'd say you haven't seen De La Salle hurl this year that you could have such faith in them, they are in the relegation final on merit believe you me.

Deskjockey

Massive congratulations to the players and management team on the all Ireland camogie triumph today, great to see a Waterford team walking up the steps in Croke Park to collect a trophy.

cookey123

Alot of talk about the amalgamation of smaller clubs at under age level and I must agree alot of merit to this to give players exposure to higher level hurling. However an argument could be made that this could ruin the integrity of the club game due to the fall off in players participation levels. it also could lead to some talent being lost, there are plenty of stories of late developers in clubs all over the country, fella's who were average at best and developed late.
The concept of joining clubs at adult level to give players from junior and intermediate clubs an opportunity to play senior is also a good idea on paper but how would that effect the running of these championships as often these are run off on the same weekends as the senior and we have enough difficulty getting the championships played off in time.

JesusRef

, it's a shame that one of Lismore or DLS will go down as it will dilute th championship for next year having Cappoquin and a newly promoted team up there - unless Cappoquin get their house I'm order.

I would be having sleepless nights if I were from either Dls or lismores set up, either can put the other down, it will be an intense game.

It's a pity that lismore - so long standard bearers in promoting hurling and camogie in the west of the county are in this slump, Waterford hurling needs them strong. What is the root of the downturn? Why have the production of new growers, Dans or Dave Bennetts dried up??

hardybuck

mickotallow wrote: »

Just wondering what all those people who were looking for revamp of senior championship are thinking now. A lot of this was aimed at teams from the west being uncompetitive. From the outset general opinion was that the relegation would be between two western teams. Will there now be questions asked of DLS's ambitions and future? Will the theory that teams go through peaks and troughs be so easily dismissed now. Ballyduff and Fourmilewater both looked in relegation trouble on round 3 yet both qualified. Teams were too easily written off because they were perceived as having no chance of winning the county. DLS beat Ballygunner in round 3 and still thought to be potential county challengers yet are now in relegation. That alone should prove that this has been a competitive championship so far and no matter how the rest of the season pans out the structure in place should not be changed.

I was one of them, and I'm massively surprised by what's taken place, mainly by the DLS capitulation. They hit 29 wides against Ballyduff Upper, and I think went 45 mins without a score v FMW. That's absolutely bizarre stuff, maybe someone closer to the scene could provide more detail.

I can still see Ballygunner winning this thing handy.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

You said last year it was between the 'big 4'. DLS are gone, and obviously Mt Sion don't measure up in your view.

Would the fact that in 2008 both Passage and Dungarvan were Intermediate sides not be a fair endorsement of the Senior championship? If the structures had been changed then, do you think Dungarvan or Passage would be where they are now? Not sure they would myself. Ballygunner have won 4 u21 hurling titles in a row. You can change the structure whatever way you want, they will be there or thereabouts every year. They are far from bullet proof though w/o Mahony and with an average manager in charge.

I'd say you haven't seen De La Salle hurl this year that you could have such faith in them, they are in the relegation final on merit believe you me.

I would say Dungarvan are a poor example, as they shouldn't have been intermediate in the first place with their large catchment area which extends well outside the town! Similarly Passage were a bit of a freak as they had one of the most talented forwards of a generation head out their and join them which was a serious shot in the arm for them.

DiscoStew

Anybody attend the Abbeyside Ballyduff game? Was surprised by the result but even more so to hear that the referee turned up with only 3 umpires (who were supposedly late delaying the start of the game) and that there were no official linesmen on duty! I presume these are appointed by the county board? Lucky there was no major incidents in the game or the county board could have been in serious trouble.

archieknox

JesusRef wrote: »

, it's a shame that one of Lismore or DLS will go down as it will dilute th championship for next year having Cappoquin and a newly promoted team up there - unless Cappoquin get their house I'm order.

I would be having sleepless nights if I were from either Dls or lismores set up, either can put the other down, it will be an intense game.

It's a pity that lismore - so long standard bearers in promoting hurling and camogie in the west of the county are in this slump, Waterford hurling needs them strong. What is the root of the downturn? Why have the production of new growers, Dans or Dave Bennetts dried up??

Spoke to our trainer some time ago about this and he informed me that in the space of the last 4 years they have lost to either retirement,transfers and emigration some 15 players that played senior championship for the club. That at any level is unsustainable.

cookey123

DiscoStew wrote: »

Anybody attend the Abbeyside Ballyduff game? Was surprised by the result but even more so to hear that the referee turned up with only 3 umpires (who were supposedly late delaying the start of the game) and that there were no official linesmen on duty! I presume these are appointed by the county board? Lucky there was no major incidents in the game or the county board could have been in serious trouble.

That is correct, 1 lineman informed the county board last week he would not be there due to illness, the referee failed to appoint linemen till the 2nd half and then got 1 from each team.

archieknox

hardybuck wrote: »

I was one of them, and I'm massively surprised by what's taken place, mainly by the DLS capitulation. They hit 29 wides against Ballyduff Upper, and I think went 45 mins without a score v FMW. That's absolutely bizarre stuff, maybe someone closer to the scene could provide more detail.

I can still see Ballygunner winning this thing handy.

Maybe someone from DLS can fill us in exactly but the rumours are gathering pace everyday! But behind all that I think they will still get their house in order to beat Lismore. They beat Ballygunner earlier in the year and as you said hit 27 wides against Ballyduff so I can't see them not putting their differences aside to stay senior next year. Lismore for all their endeavour just don't have enough hurlers to beat them and on the night I saw them against Cappoquin they fell asunder when Maurice Shanahan went off injured. Maybe there could be a St Carthages senior team next year😋

Alf Tupper

archieknox wrote: »

Spoke to our trainer some time ago about this and he informed me that in the space of the last 4 years they have lost to either retirement,transfers and emigration some 15 players that played senior championship for the club. That at any level is unsustainable.

Everyone knows, for I don't know how long now, how difficult Lismore are to manage. It's not like it's news to anyone who knows the club scene in Waterford. However, they still wouldn't be in this position if they had someone with any bit of cop on in charge of them from the start of the season.

The Chairman, if indeed it was he, has a lot to answer for the two different managers he appointed at different times during the season before Dave Bennett had to come in to steady the ship.

Everyone in the county knows that the two guys appointed during the first half of the season have been completely divisive characters within and without the club for years and it was no surprise when both of them each only lasted a few weeks before walking away leaving the club in the lurch.

I travelled up to their game against Cappoquin and was shocked at how bad they were. Their display was absolutely awful. They looked completely unfit and devoid of any bit of spirit and passion.

I feel sorry for Dave Bennett who took them over just before the Roanmore game. There seems to have been a vast improvement in them since, but unfortunately it looks like it's too little, too late.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

I would say Dungarvan are a poor example, as they shouldn't have been intermediate in the first place with their large catchment area which extends well outside the town! Similarly Passage were a bit of a freak as they had one of the most talented forwards of a generation head out their and join them which was a serious shot in the arm for them.

How large is the Dungarvan catchment area in reality? Theres 3 clubs in the town alone, and several in its environs. Theyve drafted in a few lads in recent times but I'm not so sure they have been the king poachers they're being labelled as now.

They should still be Senior but so should Tramore by virtue of size alone, so that argument wouldn't stack up. Like if you were to look at it that way, Ill bet Ferrybank, Erins Own, Saviours and Naomh Pol should all be Senior clubs relative to the size of Ballyduff Upper, Fourmilewater, Tallow etc.

Given Ballygunner managed to lose to this De La Salle side, Id be far from seeing them as home and hosed. BG haven't won two in a row since 1997. You can't overstate how important Mahony is to them.

As for De La Salle, I saw them in Saturday and they got a questionable goal and two points too follow right on half time. If Liam Lawlor had played, and Conor Gleeson played the whole match, I think they could have lost the game by 20 points and even losing by 11 with Shane Walsh and Jamie Barron spending most of the match 60 yards from goal takes some explaining for a side with 4 lads on the County panel and John Mullane in their side.

Couldn't have any faith in them to be honest. Think Passage again look like the best placed to win the County. Mount Sion may yet be the joker in the pack.

robopaddy2

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Everyone knows, for I don't know how long now, how difficult Lismore are to manage. It's not like it's news to anyone who knows the club scene in Waterford. However, they still wouldn't be in this position if they had someone with any bit of cop on in charge of them from the start of the season.

The Chairman, if indeed it was he, has a lot to answer for the two different managers he appointed at different times during the season before Dave Bennett had to come in to steady the ship.

Everyone in the county knows that the two guys appointed during the first half of the season have been completely divisive characters within and without the club for years and it was no surprise when both of them each only lasted a few weeks before walking away leaving the club in the lurch.

I travelled up to their game against Cappoquin and was shocked at how bad they were. Their display was absolutely awful. They looked completely unfit and devoid of any bit of spirit and passion.

I feel sorry for Dave Bennett who took them over just before the Roanmore game. There seems to have been a vast improvement in them since, but unfortunately it looks like it's too little, too late.

There is obviously something very deep running in Lismore forsome time and it’s finally coming to a head. They are staring relegation in theface, almost certain imo. Can’t see them beating De la salle (who should beable to rise above their own issues for this one game given what is at stake).You could talk about the players they have lost over the past few years, but so have many other clubs lost players of equal importance. Then you have to ask yourself why so many players are walking away from the club when some of the other clubs around them manage to keep their players, even those that areworking and living away. There is a lack of pride in wearing the jersey forLismore and has been now with some time.

As much as I don’t have too much sympathy for them, it is sad to see given it is a club and town that has contributed so much to Waterford hurling over the years. They were one of the few traditional clubs putting in the hard work at underage level and producing quality hurlers during the barren years of the 80s and 90s in Waterford. Guys like Brother Dormer inthe CBS and Sean Prendergast in Lismore Primary did Trojan work with school kids over the years and weve seen many quality players come through and play senior for Waterford like the Shanahans,the Bennett’s, Growler Daly, Mark O’Sullivan and in recent years the likes of Paudie Prendergast and Ray Barry. Brother Dormer left following the break up of the CBS and the amalgamation with Blackwater CS. He is now at Doon CBS in Limerick, another small town school, where it is no coincidence that they find themselves competing in Harty cup finals under his guidance. Just as Lismore CBS did in 95.

If, and in my opinion when Lismore do go down, they will be favourites to come back up. It might be just the kick in the backside the club needs to regroup and get its act together. Ballyduff went down in the mid noughties, many thought they were gone but came straight back up the following year. They built on the momentum of the intermediate win and within 2 years won a county senior championship.

Brad1234

On the Idea of Group teams, We have seen before how much of a shambles they were.. When you put clubs together and let them try and pick a team, bias is always going to infest itself in the selection Committee..

I think the only way they work is if the county board used a bit of foresight with a view to developing coaches/Managers by imposing what they feel are the best crop of managers around in the county to take control of teams. So for example the previous Waterford underage coaches or ex players with a pedigree underage get a chance to take over one these teams and bring who he wants with him (probably one more) and then will be showing his potential with the carrot of a senior job at the offing.

If guys are training with their clubs, one night a week with the group team and a game weekend would be suffice during idle periods in the year and we all know how idle it can become. Obviously around the build up to match times more training would be needed but it wouldn't be to taxing on players as its more getting them together to re-emphasize the plan. The benefit for their clubs is their hurling and speed of thought is sharper for their own grade..

You will always have people against it but mainly that's due to ulterior motives such as they own inner circle from the club wouldn't make the squad or they would have zero control over it but the main reason for it is to improve standards in Waterford from a coaching point of view and providing a bigger player pool for Waterford. its the main reason why you cant have people from the clubs involved.

The benefit of it would outweigh the cost of it.. If the group teams are made of up of certain teams alternate the training every night to the different club grounds so people cant complain of distance travelled.. Players are always swayed by the level of gear they get so a simple thing like a sponsors deal with a sporting brand along with a players contribution would be a way of making a group look more organised and it never ceases to amaze me the excitement of guys when training tops or jackets etc are rolled out for them. Again its very small thing but it gets players involved from the off.

From a managers point of view its ideal as he wont have spend 70% of the session doing hill/shuttle runs or getting lads into shape his main strategy would be hurling and touch work, along with dealing with players who have ambition to play as high as they can which will stand him in stead if he received the senior job.. Maybe try different ways of playing and lets players become more adaptable and confident that they can step it up.. Leave the squads open book bar your core players and leaves squads to about 20 players on match day to create competition to get in the squad.

Again this may all be a pipe dream and there would be significant roadblocks put in place for it to be a failure.. The gaa always has a cant do attitude, costs and where would we get the time will always be thrown up but id prefer to see this structure then spending the summer months doing the same thing over and over again.

The logistics of it would be simple.. Newer Coaches to the scene or inter-county players with a view to becoming coaches could come in every now and then to freshen up training and bring a different spin to it.. It would all be for greater good and when people banded the phrase 'holistic approach' that's it in a nutshell.

Just my thought on it maybe it is a pipe dream but its achievable if the will was there.

Top drawer

Whatever about pulling together a few junior clubs with maybe an intermediate thrown in to make up a senior team fair enough, but few ppl on here talking about 2 senior teams with high level intermediates pulling together is a joke, ur club is either gud enough to be senior or its not. If its not, then take the punishment of dropping down like alot of clubs have done, rebuild and go again,

archieknox

Nice to see Derek and his management team getting a long term contract. Hopefully he has a plan for this year to move to the next level again. The panel is to be stringently controlled at 33 players which is tight enough on numbers. Rumours abound about a few players being dropped/leaving the squad but most squads will have that anyway.

mickotallow

JesusRef wrote: »

, it's a shame that one of Lismore or DLS will go down as it will dilute th championship for next year having Cappoquin and a newly promoted team up there - unless Cappoquin get their house I'm order.

I would be having sleepless nights if I were from either Dls or lismores set up, either can put the other down, it will be an intense game.

It's a pity that lismore - so long standard bearers in promoting hurling and camogie in the west of the county are in this slump, Waterford hurling needs them strong. What is the root of the downturn? Why have the production of new growers, Dans or Dave Bennetts dried up??

Would the same be said if it was Ballyduff, Tallow or FMW were in the relegation battle. DLS and Lismore are in the relegation play-off (refuse to call it a final) because they are the two worst teams in the championship this year. How can losing 1 of 2 teams who have won 1 and drawn 2 games between them all year weaken the championship? We've been complaining for years that the intermediate champions go straight back down every year yet when they stay up we say it'll be bad for the championship. Teams can't live off past glories and have a right to be senior because of history. Excuses are being made for both teams.

DLS.
In-fighting
Too many players on Waterford duty etc.

Lismore
Retirement
Injuries
Emigration

All excuses. Every club has issues to deal with. It's part and parcel of running a senior hurling club. We have a small squad in Tallow and we've lost a large number of players to emigration and injury over last few years which would severely strengthen our squad. But that's just a fact of life. And as for retirement! Well if teams are complaining bout lads not playing cos they've gotten on in life I don't know where we're at. Maybe we should get the 85 county winning team from Tallow to tog out this weekend. All these issues depend on how they are managed by the management teams. Can't say I know anything about DLS management but something has to be rotten in that camp. And I think based on last two games if Dave Bennett had been in charge all year Lismore probably wouldn't be in this situation.

If anything I think it'll be a wake up call to all senior teams that you can't take any game for granted or you could end up in relegation trouble. This'll add more bite to games if anything.

And before I'm accused of being anti-Lismore just let me stare that I hope Lismore stay up. Relegation for Lismore (as satisfying as it would be) would not be of any benefit to Tallow or hurling in the west. Local derbies are great for the game as they generate great excitement and interest. Losing this will not help Tallow to improve. Only look better in comparison.

Psychedelic

archieknox wrote: »

Nice to see Derek and his management team getting a long term contract. Hopefully he has a plan for this year to move to the next level again. The panel is to be stringently controlled at 33 players which is tight enough on numbers. Rumours abound about a few players being dropped/leaving the squad but most squads will have that anyway.

Any concerns that his contract has been extended for 3 years on top of the existing 3-year contract, or is this normal for manager contract renewals? I'd understand renewing his contract for an extra year, but three seems too much and a bit premature based on one terrible season and one very good season.

I suppose it doesn't really make a difference how long it is, if he does bad he can still be sacked. Obviously I hope that doesn't happen and that Derek continues to build on this year's success. He has my full support and I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops the team and our tactics over the next few years.

Mountainlad

Psychedelic wrote: »

Any concerns that his contract has been extended for 3 years on top of the existing 3-year contract, or is this normal for manager contract renewals? I'd understand renewing his contract for an extra year, but three seems too much and a bit premature based on one terrible season and one very good season.

I suppose it doesn't really make a difference how long it is, if he does bad he can still be sacked. Obviously I hope that doesn't happen and that Derek continues to build on this year's success. He has my full support and I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops the team and our tactics over the next few years.

He has 1 year left on the existing term so its 4 years. Would have gone two extra years myself, but they definitely couldnt have just offered one extra year I'd say he'd have been insulted.

No doubt theres terms and he opportunity for reviews pencilled in as well so wouldn't worry about. For the most part, its great that he management team remains the same for the coming year in my opinion.

thinkstoomuch1

As regards mcgrath contract my own view is he deserved an extension absoultey and I had doubt last year buthe's done good to a degree but a three year one imo is too much when they should have learned from limerick last year
Last year limerick gave on one season and a moral victory v kk Ryan a full three year term
I said it then it made no logic as limerick would have backed themselves in corner in things went wrong
On limerick thread now many who felt it was great call suddenly changed view now

Limerick players wanted new back room staff and Kinnerk turned them down and there having difficulty getting a top coach as of yet
Point is limerick ccb who rushed through term last year now can't very well end term before time

Waterford should learned and yes waterford made progress however still nothing was actually won, kk clearly had no interest in the league, the league last year was not a great barometer for championship so to give three year extension I think is risky
I would given him another year in total two with all ireland final being goal and if achieved then I extend contract hugely
Waterford now have given themselves no room to move if things go wrong next year have stay with him


I don't see how he needs three years from now to build on when already had two years already and surely next two years will define if he's got tactics to move to the next level

I'm not just in waterford case but any county against huge contract extension when no need them and lot of things needing be done
People think McGrath would walk away unless got new term
My view is he would not if got two years and if so then we'll that he's choice then but I doubt he would as he put huge work waterford he'll want finish it out and if he left not like soccer not many other top jobs availability join

Cork don't do outside manager
Tipperary's have management and limerick also
Clare are sorted and Galway probably keep Cunningham
So the chances mcgrath joining another county is slim
Waterford have showed nothing to say they can bridge the gap to kk and huge worry is kk who up last week were vulnerable have now built new team leaders it will take something special to beat them
What waterford need is under twenty one success next year and to maintain division one status and new slightly tweaked game plan
Also for those that are interested cork play Waterford in cork league February 20 under light on a Saturday night in cork in hurling