Nintendo Switch (Nintendo's next console)

sligeach

Nintendo Switch specs: less powerful than PlayStation 4

The Nintendo Switch game console coming next year won’t be more powerful than Sony’s three-year-old PlayStation 4, according to sources who talked to GamesBeat about the upcoming Nintendo console’s specifications.

GamesBeat has confirmed from two sources (who don’t want to be identified) that the Switch’s graphics are based on Nvidia’s older Maxwell architecture, not the new Pascal graphics technology that the chipmaker introduced earlier this year. The semi-custom Nvidia Tegra processor in the machine is still powerful enough to play typical Nintendo cartoon-style games (like the Mario series), but don’t expect the highest-end games we’re seeing on the PS4 or Xbox One to run on the Switch.

This may be OK, and the Switch’s high-definition visuals may still be satisfying to a lot of gamers, who will also appreciate its dual purpose of being played in the home as a console and on the run as a portable system. But the Kyoto-based Japanese company was in such a rush to replace its failing Wii U that it couldn’t wait for the updated Pascal version of the graphics technology, sources told us. This means that the Switch doesn’t have as much visual horsepower as the PS4 when played on a television, and it may not be able to handle 4K graphics, either. If Nintendo had waited for Pascal, it would have had to push back the launch date of the Switch. We’re not so sure if the Switch is weaker than the Xbox One, as the performance may be close.

Still, even without the high-end graphics, the Switch will still have a lot of Nintendo games, such as The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, which Nintendo showed working on the Switch on the Jimmy Fallon show. That game and others like it will surely help sell the system. It will also have portability features that no other game console has ever had.

“If Nintendo gets traction with this, we forecast they will ship 5 million Switches by the end of 2017,” said Jon Peddie, analyst at market researcher Jon Peddie Research and a long-time graphics expert.

Part of reason for the use of older parts is that it just takes a while to get a console off the ground. Nvidia’s Pascal-based chips came out first for desktops and laptops in the middle of the year. These chips were both powerful and more power-efficient than the previous Maxwell generation from 2014. But such chips are typically hot and big, making them too power-hungry and expensive to put into a home gaming console. They might be great for a desktop, with lot of room for fans and cooling systems. But the chip would overheat and melt down the portable portion of the system.

Nintendo plans to share more information on January 12. Both Nvidia and Nintendo declined to comment for this story.

The choice of Maxwell means that the Nintendo box will likely be a lot cheaper than other brand-new consoles (which typically debut at $400 to $600) at the outset. The Maxwell graphics will be embedded in the ARM-based Tegra processor, which is an all-in-one chip, with both processor and graphics on the same piece of silicon. Like the Advanced Micro Devices chips in the PS4 and Xbox One (those consoles have accelerated processing units, or APUs), the single chip consumes less space, uses less power, and costs less than having two chips in the system.

Hardcore gamers and tech fans will likely be upset that Nintendo won’t be using Pascal graphics. That gives Microsoft and Sony room to proceed with their tech arms race. Sony has already launched the PlayStation 4 Pro machine with 4K-like graphics and virtual reality with its PlayStation VR headset. And Microsoft promises true 4K graphics and VR with its upcoming Project Skorpio, debuting for the holidays in 2017. But others may find that the Nintendo Switch is more than adequate for what they need. To give you a sense, we expect the Nintendo Switch to be more than 1 teraflop in performance, but far less than the 6 teraflops that Microsoft is promising for Skorpio. The PS4 is around 1.8 teraflops, and it has much better memory bandwidth performance as well compared to the Switch.

“I don’t see Nintendo’s strategy as a risk,” said Peddie. “Too many pundits and fan boys and investors make a serious mistake when they try to compare and contrast Nintendo with Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo has a niche in the affordable, accessible product, and performance is never a leading criteria for them. It is gameplay and immersion. They are never a technology pioneer. Trying to compare Nintendo to Sony is like comparing a Volkswagen to a Corvette. It’s a facetious and fallacious analogy and a discredit to fans who love Nintendo.”

Nintendo knew that for this console, it needed to have a long lead time on the development kits so that it could avoid another pitfall of the Wii U: not enough games. So key developers really needed to have the tools for making the games in 2016 in order to have a chance at getting games done for the March 2017 launch of the Switch. Those dev kits use a Tegra X1-based system. We understand that the final chip will be a custom version of the X1.

Plenty of evidence shows that Nintendo is trying to throw a wider net to recruit game developers such as Bethesda, the studio behind The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, to make games for the Switch. Developers will have more time to make launch games, and this should result in more third-party games than what we’ve seen with the Wii U. Nintendo president Tatsumi Kimishima has acknowledged the need to continuously publish new titles after the launch.

The Switch could still be appealing. You can play a game at home, plugging it into the base (which has no extra processing power in it; it’s simply a power supply and a way to connect the console to the TV). When you hit the road, you can take the Switch with you and play the same on the tablet. You can pull out the handles from the sides of the Switch controller, the Joy-Con, and have two players play the same thing, such as a sports game, on the portable. That makes the Switch more appealing beyond the kids market, which Nintendo has lost to mobile devices. And it makes the Nintendo Switch more appealing to young adults and people who want to go to social gatherings with friends.

Nintendo has made some interesting choices. The first major change was a couple of years ago, when the company decided that, after a 10-year-plus relationship with AMD, it would abandon that hardware partnership and use Nvidia as its chip maker. This was a shocker in itself for the traditional console hardware team, and it means no backward compatibility with the Wii U. Nvidia offered a low price for its Tegra chips, which are in need of a high-volume chip customer in the wake of the chip maker’s exit from the mobile processor market.

Nvidia won the deal because it had made its own game tablet and game set-top box, the Nvidia Shield and the Shield set-top box. It created Tegra processors for those devices and figured out how to do cloud gaming with it. Nintendo decided to make what’s essentially a custom version of the Shield, with different features like the controllers and TV-portable hybrid that suits its own market focus. The decision significantly reduced the amount of hardware engineering that Nintendo would have otherwise had to do with a new console.

The Shield set-top box that debuted in 2015 has an Nvidia Tegra X1 processor with eight 64-bit ARM cores and a 256-core Maxwell GPU. That machine debuted for $200 with a Shield controller. That machine was capable of 4K 60-frames-per-second graphics, but it used Nvidia’s cloud gaming service to run high-end games such as Dying Light (a first-person zombie game that features a great deal of climbing and jumping around an urban setting). The set-top box could tolerate a higher heat profile, and the Nvidia Shield tablet that debuted in 2014 had a Tegra K1 processor with four CPUs and 192 Kepler graphics cores. Nintendo’s box is relatively small, and so it has to fit into the heat profile of a portable device, rather than a set-top box. That’s another reason that explains the older Maxwell technology, as opposed to the Pascal’s state-of-the-art tech.

Nvidia has a new Tegra in the market in the Nvidia Drive PX 2 platform, which it describes as a processor for self-driving cars. This system has two code-named Parker chips in it. One Parker chip has a combination of six CPU cores (2 from the Denver design, four ARM v8 A57 designs) and 256 graphics cores based on the Pascal architecture. A single Parker chip is a pretty powerful machine, capable of doing 4K video and high-end graphics. But our understanding is that Parker showed up too late for Nintendo’s purposes. Parker also would have to be redesigned for mobile, low-power constraints. But it gives you an idea of the challenges that both Nvidia and Nintendo had in hitting their targets for performance, size, and power consumption. This kind of chip could be available as a rev 2, much like Sony has done with the PlayStation Pro. But we don’t expect it to be there at the outset.

The Nintendo Switch does not run the full Android operating system. If it did, it would be able to run millions of Android games, including a raft of free-to-play apps. But Nintendo doesn’t want that. It wants a curated experience with games that you purchase, games that would sell the system. In doing so, it took a more traditional approach to launching a console. By contrast, Nvidia’s own Shield game console runs Android and has a wide array of games available on it. The Shield hasn’t been that successful, however, which could validate Nintendo’s strategy. Another reason not to go with Android is that it isn’t easy to give game developers low-level support to the hardware in a way that helps them optimize software.

It’s not clear if someone could hack the device to get Android games to run on it, as we just don’t know enough about the software. But Nintendo has also turned to a traditional cartridge option as an added measure of security. The cartridge is a memory card with Nintendo’s own proprietary specifications, enabling players to play games quickly without long loading or downloading times.

Nintendo has taken the extra step of courting the game engine designers and making sure that developers who create games on the Unity and Unreal will be able to easily port those releases on the Switch. Again, that makes the system more friendly to developers who avoided created special, one-off versions of their games for previous Nintendo consoles. It’s worth nothing that this is the first Nintendo console that Unreal Engine maker Epic Games has chosen to support wholeheartedly, and at least one indie title using Unreal has already been announced for the Switch. The fact that Epic Games would support the Nintendo Switch says a lot about the potential wider developer base for the Nintendo platform.

The Shield also has an interesting cloud gaming option, where you can download a lot of triple-A blockbuster games and also play games that reside in cloud-connected data centers. But so far, I don’t know if Nintendo is going to add the same capabilities to the Switch. The cloud option is kind of a safety option, which would make it easy for Nintendo to get a lot of triple-A games on the Switch without having to enlist developer resources.

The Switch also has USB Type-C connectivity, as people observed in the debut of the Switch on the recent Jimmy Fallon show. That allows for faster data transfer as well as fast charging for the battery. Nintendo’s own video showed that esports will be a part of the content for the Switch, so you can expect it will have the ability for people to spectate esports events.

There are still a lot of questions. We don’t know the exact price, despite rumors from a lot of sources. It’s not clear how good the Wi-Fi connectivity will be, and we don’t know if the Switch has a touchscreen, like the Nvidia Shield does. Based on the video, it certainly looks like there is no touchscreen, as you attach the secondary controllers to the sides of the tablet. We’re also not sure if Nintendo plans to make use of the Shield’s cloud gaming features. We don’t know the exact number of subprocessors on the Maxwell-based chip, nor do we know at what speed the chip will run at.

But it’s fun to speculate about what will happen next — and the exact form that the console will take in the coming months.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/14/nintendo-switch-specs-less-powerful-than-playstation-4/

Digital Solitude

Not capable of 4k? No ****...

Nollog

Holy crap can you just cut out 1 paragraph instead of all the inane stuff this guy says from sources well never know and misinformed opinions?

Has he at least edited the caption under the zelda pic to say zelda instead of splatoon?

Ah I see he's reworded quite a lot. "Quality art" instead of "cartoon graphics" too.

"Sony has already launched the PlayStation 4 Pro machine with 4K-like graphics and virtual reality with its PlayStation VR headset. And Microsoft promises true 4K graphics"
Funny, 4k-like.

CastorTroy

Think I said it before, but am I the only one who wasn't even aware of 4K and HDR before the Pro was announced? well I was aware 4K was being targeted for tvs and Ultra HD on blu ray, but that's about it.

johnpatrick81

Like when cameras kind of reached saturation point with 6mps of image quality upwards, I'd guess it's gonna be the same with 4k....8k....whatever the heck they have in mind. Unless you have an 80inch tv I can't see the need to go any more HD than HD.

Roark

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Like when cameras kind of reached saturation point with 6mps of image quality upwards, I'd guess it's gonna be the same with 4k....8k....whatever the heck they have in mind. Unless you have an 80inch tv I can't see the need to go any more HD than HD.

I can see a pretty big difference between HD and 4K on a 50 inch TV. The whole you won't need a 1080p TV (vs a 720p) until you reach certain size argument never held up for me either.

I will buy a 4K TV eventually but the fact that the Switch probably won't be 4K capable doesn't bother me because gameplay, design and fun are more important factors for me.

safetyboy

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1325344

Switch patent dumps.

Corholio

Hell of a lot of info in those dumps.

1. Possible tentative VR support
2. Different Joy-Con button configurations/accessory i.e. D-pad
3. Possible to put a mobile device between the Joy-Cons?
4. Using the Joy-Cons as a controller without the grip
5. Joy-Cons have individual 'L' and 'R' buttons
6. IR pointer on Joy-Cons confirmed
7. Ambient light sensor.
8. Faster clocking when docked.

readyletsgo

I think it's going to happen. Switch VR, maybe with the next switch screen release with higher resolution or something, Switch pro or something, can still use the same original dock. But it'll happen. Would be crazy cheap to make the head set too.

Love my PSVR so I'm all for it, and it would be wireless

God, there is so many opportunities with the Switch right now. Feel it's gonna be a great success. If Nintendo market it, and I think they know that this time.

MilesMorales1

Who else got that email about winning a chance to try the switch in London in January? I'd probably go if I won a chance.

Nollog

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Who else got that email about winning a chance to try the switch in London in January? I'd probably go if I won a chance.

i got two. the one today actually worked though.

pasta-solo

Yeah got one also, would absolutely go if I won!

sligeach

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Who else got that email about winning a chance to try the switch in London in January? I'd probably go if I won a chance.

I got it. Said this elsewhere yesterday.

I can't be the only one to notice that "Nintendo UK & Ireland" only allow us Irish enter the competitions when they don't have to spend a penny. I won't even ask if flights and/or accommodation is included.


"Winners shall be responsible for any travel, accommodation and associated costs incurred in order to attend the event."


We're effectively ruled out anyway unless we want to spend the price of a Switch to get over to the event. I'll keep my money for the unit itself instead. Thanks though Nintendo! Thanks!

Whenever they're giving away something physical where they've to put their hand in their pocket, the door is firmly slammed in our faces. :mad:

MilesMorales1

Ah sligeach, its the same in America! Or people in the UK would have to pay their own travel costs too, the train in the UK would be more expensive than a ryanair flight in a lot of cases!

sligeach

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Ah sligeach, its the same in America! Or people in the UK would have to pay their own travel costs too, the train in the UK would be more expensive than a ryanair flight in a lot of cases!

I don't expect them to pay for travel expenses or accommodation. I meant more how whenever they give away physical prizes we're excluded.

Corholio

This isn't a physical prize though. It's standard fare you don't pay for your travel or expenses. Wouldn't cost that much to get over anyway, I'd jump at it if I ended up winning.

764dak

What else can it do besides play games?

Digital Solitude

Hopefully has a reasonable internet browser, after that, it's a games console.

pasta-solo

764dak wrote: »

What else can it do besides play games?

Why would it do anything besides play games? It's a games console.

Pac1Man

Yes but apart from playing high quality Nintendo exclusives which cost millions in development and R&D and enabling Roof Karen Parties, what can the Switch actually do?

MilesMorales1

It does your taxes for you? Hoovers your kitchen. What do you expect a games console to do?

OwaynOTT

It blows your mind and you're credit card

764dak

pasta-solo wrote: »

Why would it do anything besides play games? It's a games console.

Well, GBC was an engine diagnostic tool, a sonar for fishing, an oscilloscope, a sewing machine controller, etc.

DS, 3DS, PSP, PSVita have multimedia capabilities. I guess we would have to wait until January to see what else it can do.

Digital Solitude

DS and 3DS have multimedia?

It'll have basic stuff I'm sure, I'd be surprised to see a native youtube or netflix app though, or any like that.

MilesMorales1

Well I'm sure it'll have a netflix app, youtube app. 3DS has a youtube app after all. I'd still be interested to know how many people actually use multimedia features on a portable games console. Specially since everyone and their dog has a smartphone capable of doing it all and more, and much better, these days.

CiDeRmAn

If anyone gets hung up on a Nintendo needing multimedia capability they should be dragged out and sent to the Xbox or PlayStation forum, where apparently the ability to deliver great games is seen as a equal partner to the ability to control your TV, or watch Westworld.
Ffs, games consoles are for games, and Nintendo are the only company left that seems to know this.

The most interesting use of a games machine for non gaming, for me at least as a Nurse, is the DS has a glucometer for kids available, or it did.
Keep meaning to get one.
It encourages children to maintain good observance of blood sugar recording, which hurts btw, with a fun experience.
http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-04/blood-sugar-monitor-attaches-nintendo-ds-enticing-kids-manage-health

Banjo

It doesn't matter whether or not YOU think the console does or doesn't need multimedia capability.

The fact remains that there are more people in the world that currently don't own the switch than do. Vastly more. Pretty much all of them.

If Nintendo want to invert that situation they need the broadest possible appeal. I'm going to get one. You're going to get one. But that leaves 152,929,998 more people to convince if we're going to get back to DS levels. And the world has changed. Most people already have a pocket sized gaming-capable device in their pocket that they take everywhere and that can do a lot more than just play games. You need to give them a reason to make room.

So yes, it needs Youtube, it needs Netflix, it needs a web browser. That's not a multimedia device, not any more, that's the bear ****ing minimum to sit at the table. It needs more. It needs a camera. It needs integration with existing social platforms - not some just some sanitized cartoonish approximation. It needs to work with automation platforms be they Hive or Alexa or IFTTT. Then it needs to eat them and replace them. It needs achievements and a backlog management system and persistent and consistent online infrastructure and a people-based account system that ties it together and creates an identity for you inside their cosy womb that you never want to leave. It needs to make ALL OF US INTO KARENS, so she becomes the new normal and everyone else that just wants to drink and **** in the pool is weird and antisocial. Switch and Life should become words that are synonymous.

You can drag out everyone who says so, have them shot or make them talk to Xbox users (shot sounds more humane), but you'll be left living like Wall E in a deserted city you built full of sky-scraping towers of "real" games consoles that the ghosts just didn't appreciate. And Eve is never coming.

Digital Solitude

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Well I'm sure it'll have a netflix app, youtube app. 3DS has a youtube app after all. I'd still be interested to know how many people actually use multimedia features on a portable games console. Specially since everyone and their dog has a smartphone capable of doing it all and more, and much better, these days.

Didn't know that! I stand corrected.

Netflix and YouTube would be nice, I'd much rather watch them on the Switches larger screen, I already have quite a big phone with a much sharper screen. They aren't essential, but would be really nice.

TheIrishGrover

My (overvalued) 2 cents worth:

That Venturebeat article: Poorly written and obvious. Of course it's not going to be PS4 level or using the next gen Pascal chipset. Neither were designed for portability. Not exactly rocket science. As for lack of 4K. Again, I'm not surprised: Again, portable device. While 4K would be nice (Having just upgraded my tele) it's certainly not a deal-breaker. Run 1080 nice and smooth and I'm happy.

VR headset: Would be very poor on a 720 display. PSVR is already getting a bit of flak about the 1080 screen.

Multimedia/extended functionality: Netflix would be nice (Especially on the move while tethered to phone) but Facebook, browser etc? Can do without. Hope it has Bluetooth for headphones.

Once again, if the price was right, I'd be interested. Would not be interested in paying anything more than 299/50 yoyos a game. They are not targeting the PS4/XB1 market so they should not charge the PS4/XB1 price range.

CiDeRmAn

Banjo wrote: »

that's the bear ****ing

No,
this is the bear ****ing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB05EX3Ed1I

And, as for the rest, I don't agree.

The last time someone tried to ride a wave of the zeitgeist and make a console that linked in with what "da kidz" were into, we ended up with a WiiU, nothing wrong with the console but it was made too expensive with the addition of the Gamepad, never used properly beyond Nintendoland.
Without that thing we would have had a much cheaper machine, not limited in gameplay time by the Gamepad battery life and without "gimmick" meaning that a lot of the unfair derision aimed at the system would have been deflected.

If you must have "multimedia" shoehorned on, just build a browser that's easy to use and let it the other companies make software for your system that will do the rest, from Plex to Netflix, Amazon Prime to Youtube.

We have seen, with MS, that they are now trying to convince the buying public to shell out for a console that will run exactly the same games as it's immediate predecessor but in 4k, no exclusives to make use just the same titles again. If that's the kind of pathway people want their future consoles on then I'm glad I'm a moderator on the Arcade and Retro forum, where common sense prevails.