If Greece can do it, Ireland certainly can..

K-9

Well Irelands has consistently improved and is often ahead of targets and we also should be running primary surpluses from now on.

The more right wing think tanks will say we should do more, while the left ones say the opposite, such is budgets!

Well I don't think I can be accused of being on the right, but if one is going to advocate the European ideals of fiscal prudence, they cannot in the same breath boast that Ireland is an example of that. Unless the other enfants terribles, like Greece and Bulgaria, are too.

demfad

tara73 wrote: »

at this stage, I think this Tsipras & Co are just complete nutcases.

Apparently Tsipras now wrote a letter to EU Ministers begging to start negotiations again.
I mean, I thought before they are clowns, but it seems they don't even know in the slightest what they are doing, not even basics how to play the game in politics, but they do it nevertheless. They are a disaster for greece.
where do they come from at all? every 18 year old newbie in politics seems to be smarter than them.

If you impose severe austerity on a country you tend to get radical politics. The best example was the rest of Europe forcing Germany to pay for WW1. That's how Hitler got in.

Not comparing these guys to Hitler, just saying they came about as a result of severe austerity.

Merkel et al must be kicking themselves for forcing Samaras out of office in Greece a few years ago. Wouldn't life be so much easier now.

Saipanne

demfad wrote: »

If you impose severe austerity on a country you tend to get radical politics. The best example was the rest of Europe forcing Germany to pay for WW1. That's how Hitler got in.

Not comparing these guys to Hitler, just saying they came about as a result of severe austerity.

Merkel et al must be kicking themselves for forcing Samaras out of office in Greece a few years ago. Wouldn't life be so much easier now.

FG and Lab are about as radical as you can get.

demfad

Saipanne wrote: »

FG and Lab are about as radical as you can get.

Sinn Fein are though, relatively speaking. That said our austerity is not on the same level of severity as Greece's.

Anyway, the usual suspects have protected themselves against the rise of competing new parties. Even Renua with their rich and professional helpers and supporters had extreme difficulty managing to set up a party. It will be the same players (+ Indos) on this democratic pitch for a long time yet.

Saipanne

demfad wrote: »

Sinn Fein are though, relatively speaking. That said our austerity is not on the same level of severity as Greece's.

Anyway, the usual suspects have protected themselves against the rise of competing new parties. Even Renua with their rich and professional helpers and supporters had extreme difficulty managing to set up a party. It will be the same players (+ Indos) on this democratic pitch for a long time yet.

I think our bailout package was larger, in per capita terms. The real difference is we implemented reforms and stuck to the programme. Greece didn't. The importance of choices.

BlitzKrieg

We normally only ever see these sort of speeches linked here when its nigel ferrage making another propaganda video but I felt this should be shared:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P84tN0z4jqM

kidneyfan

The risk in Ireland is not mass action but political violence.

FreudianSlippers

Saipanne wrote: »

FG and Lab are about as radical as you can get.

The only way I could ever imagine FG or Lab being called radical was if they started skateboarding or something.

FISMA.

If Greece can do it, Ireland certainly can..

... be a dead beat nation? Hopefully not.

ezra_pound

stuar wrote: »

Now that Greece has the EU quaking in their boots, whether they default or not, I think in the next election Ireland will follow suit, except we have a little more to offer ourselves.

For starters tell the IMF, ECB and the bond holders/gamblers should be told to feck off.

Get out of the EU, get rid of the euro and back to the punt, become sovereign again.

Export as much as we wish, to who we wish, do away with farmers subsidies to not grow good crops on good fertile land, most our land is wasted on doing nothing.



Do away with livestock export quotas, this quota, that quota, this cap, that cap, just basically produce and sell, sell, sell.


Let fishermen fish in our territorial waters, and bring in the haul they catch, instead of worrying about EU fines and dumping thousands of tons of edible dead fish overboard each year.


Tell Royal Dutch Shell we've changed our minds on the corrib gas field and we'll pay them back their investment so far, in time, and let our gas be our gas. We just have to hire experts, let them do their work and then pay them and say bye, bye, then some of the Irish expats that emigrated and worked in the industry may return home.

Do likewise with the potential 1.7 billion barrels of oil off the west Cork coast, create our own nationalised energy company, we have the energy, who want's to buy some,crude prices may have fallen temporary but they'll soon rise again when the US/Russia/Saudi Arabia crap is over.



Just an idea......

Thank Enda we're not Greece!

ezra_pound

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

We normally only ever see these sort of speeches linked here when its nigel ferrage making another propaganda video but I felt this should be shared:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P84tN0z4jqM

The man is an absolute legend.

NorthStars

Good to see the Greek economy showing signs of growth at last.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGIQFjALahUKEwjcio2F66bHAhXtF9sKHSBiAWk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2F2015%2F0813%2F720975-greek-economy-grew-in-second-quarter%2F&ei=vPXMVdy8He2v7AagxIXIBg&usg=AFQjCNGkR7xQETB4lHXnrbap4sWSF6Sp4w

Economic growth plus the spectre of a fairly substantial debt writedown on the horizon after a package is agreed with their creditors.

Kenny and his cronies should take note.

Carlos Orange

NorthStars wrote: »

Good to see the Greek economy showing signs of growth at last.

That was in Q2. I think the assumption is the debt fiasco killed any recovery.

catbear

stuar wrote: »

Now that Greece has the EU quaking in their boots, whether they default or not, I think in the next election Ireland will follow suit, except we have a little more to offer ourselves.

The first line of this thread is so funny.

K-9

NorthStars wrote: »

Good to see the Greek economy showing signs of growth at last.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGIQFjALahUKEwjcio2F66bHAhXtF9sKHSBiAWk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2F2015%2F0813%2F720975-greek-economy-grew-in-second-quarter%2F&ei=vPXMVdy8He2v7AagxIXIBg&usg=AFQjCNGkR7xQETB4lHXnrbap4sWSF6Sp4w

Economic growth plus the spectre of a fairly substantial debt writedown on the horizon after a package is agreed with their creditors.

Kenny and his cronies should take note.

Its hardly at last though, they came out of recession last year.

NorthStars

psinno wrote: »

That was in Q2. I think the assumption is the debt fiasco killed any recovery.

That remains to be seen.
You see, Greece will get their 'bailout' deal and after that they'll get their debt writedown (as demanded by the IMF of all people).
Their country will recover.
The thing that p1sses people in Ireland off the most is that Dear Leader kenny hadn't the gumption or the nerve to even ask for a debt writedown.
The time to do that was in the summer of 2011, when he had a strong mandate from the people to do just that.
He failed Ireland then, just as he's been failing Ireland since.
All that happened here was that FG followed the plan drawn up by the troika and FF.
Kenny will be remembered for what he is...the lion in the wizard of oz.

Saipanne

Who in their right mind would envy Greece's position?

NorthStars

NorthStars wrote: »

That remains to be seen.
You see, Greece will get their 'bailout' deal and after that they'll get their debt writedown (as demanded by the IMF of all people).
Their country will recover.
The thing that p1sses people in Ireland off the most is that Dear Leader kenny hadn't the gumption or the nerve to even ask for a debt writedown.
The time to do that was in the summer of 2011, when he had a strong mandate from the people to do just that.
He failed Ireland then, just as he's been failing Ireland since.
All that happened here was that FG followed the plan drawn up by the troika and FF.
Kenny will be remembered for what he is...the lion in the wizard of oz.

Do you believe that Greece will recover faster than Ireland?

What metrics do you wish to compare the two on?
What baseline?

FreudianSlippers

catbear wrote: »

The first line of this thread is so funny.

I'm not sure what's more funny. The first line, the title or the date of OP (considering it's really a thread about Ireland pulling a Greece)

FreudianSlippers

NorthStars wrote: »

That remains to be seen.
You see, Greece will get their 'bailout' deal and after that they'll get their debt writedown (as demanded by the IMF of all people).
Their country will recover.
The thing that p1sses people in Ireland off the most is that Dear Leader kenny hadn't the gumption or the nerve to even ask for a debt writedown.
The time to do that was in the summer of 2011, when he had a strong mandate from the people to do just that.
He failed Ireland then, just as he's been failing Ireland since.
All that happened here was that FG followed the plan drawn up by the troika and FF.
Kenny will be remembered for what he is...the lion in the wizard of oz.

What do you make of the fact that Greece is going to be at the apron-strings of the Troika Institutions for considerably longer than Ireland will have been?

Carlos Orange

NorthStars wrote: »

That remains to be seen.

I guess but when I read about the trouble businesses had in Greece due to not being able to pay suppliers outside of Greece I think it is a given that the modest recovery they had is gone.

NorthStars

Saipanne wrote: »

Who in their right mind would envy Greece's position?

Nope, I don't envy them at all.

I'm pointing out though, especially to all the usual crew on this site who were rubbing their hands (and whatever else) with glee a few weeks ago at the thought of Greece being thrown out of the Eurozone and comparing their tactics to 'the shinners', that Greece is still in the Eurozone, has it's bailout programme and will be getting a debt writedown as the IMF has said it will require.

To be fair though, most of the aforementioned crew spend their time in the cafe under the bridge, and it's where they're most suited tbh.

Amirani

NorthStars wrote: »

Nope, I don't envy them at all.

I'm pointing out though, especially to all the usual crew on this site who were rubbing their hands (and whatever else) with glee a few weeks ago at the thought of Greece being thrown out of the Eurozone and comparing their tactics to 'the shinners', that Greece is still in the Eurozone, has it's bailout programme and will be getting a debt writedown as the IMF has said it will require.

To be fair though, most of the aforementioned crew spend their time in the cafe under the bridge, and it's where they're most suited tbh.

Their debt will still be higher than Ireland's after any debt writedown. Why would Ireland get a debt write-down when our debt/gdp ratio is lower than Belgium or Italy's?

NorthStars

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Their debt will still be higher than Ireland's after any debt writedown. Why would Ireland get a debt write-down when our debt/gdp ratio is lower than Belgium or Italy's?

Sure why would we even ask for a writedown of some of the debt taken on by the taxpayer, on the instruction of Ireland's european overlords, in order to save cowboy banks in a corrupted european banking system?

Some people accept what happened to Ireland.
I don't.

NorthStars

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe that Greece will recover faster than Ireland?

What metrics do you wish to compare the two on?
What baseline?

Never said that Greece would recover faster.
Didn't compare the two economies, only the fact that our serf's didn't ask for a writedown.
There is no baseline.

BoJack Horseman

NorthStars wrote: »

Never said that Greece would recover faster.
Didn't compare the two economies, only the fact that our serf's didn't ask for a writedown.
There is no baseline.

So you agree that the Irish governments economic recovery plan was better then the Greek's?

Jolly Red Giant

The following example gives a flavour of how the Troika are engaged in a vicious class war against working class people in Greece.

One of the diktats of the troika was to impose VAT of 23 % on food (some items are 13%). Over the past 6 years large numbers of people who have been impoverished by the troika's austerity have started to grow some of their own food, many have moved to rural areas to live with elderly relatives to get access to small patches of land to grow vegetables. Many people who grow small quantities of food regularly give some of the food to neighbours and friends who can't afford to buy much food.

The latest batch of troika diktats will compel the Greek government to stop people growing their own veg on the basis that because they are growing food instead of buying it they are engaging in tax evasion because they are not paying VAT on the food they grow.

How utterly daft is that?

NorthStars

NorthStars wrote: »

Nope, I don't envy them at all.

I'm pointing out though, especially to all the usual crew on this site who were rubbing their hands (and whatever else) with glee a few weeks ago at the thought of Greece being thrown out of the Eurozone and comparing their tactics to 'the shinners', that Greece is still in the Eurozone, has it's bailout programme and will be getting a debt writedown as the IMF has said it will require.

To be fair though, most of the aforementioned crew spend their time in the cafe under the bridge, and it's where they're most suited tbh.

Win win for Greece is it? You make it sound like there's absolutely zero cost to the debt restructuring (which was promised to the previous government upon succesful exit of the previous bailout)

NorthStars

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So you agree that the Irish governments economic recovery plan was better then the Greek's?

The Greeks were/are in a far worse position than us.
There's no comparison.
FYI, it wasn't the current governments economic recovery plan, it was a plan decided on by the troika and the previous government.