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And it begins... (bigot brigade anti-SSM leaflets) - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post ###

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Jesus! Far right U.S. Religious groups I reckon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    you can indeed. But the point I was making is that the religious stance on non believers is generally damned, not thick.

    No. Really damned is an archaic term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Twas hardly atheist Ireland in fairness.

    Why not? Atheists cant be c*nts either no?

    I FYP'd also I made a type in the post your referring to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Do we know where this leaflet came from yet? People here seem to be assuming, without evidence that it came from a religious group.

    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    That's because this thread is full of posters whose main stance is to be anti religion(in particular anti RCC, that's fine) and their pro SSM stance is only secondary.
    As such they will not accept that atheists anti-theists and agnostics maybe anti SSM


    I think it might actually be because of the religious content of the pamphlet!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Do we know where this leaflet came from yet? People here seem to be assuming, without evidence that it came from a religious group.

    Evidence?????

    GOOD CHRISTIAN
    CHRIST
    LUKE 12:12
    HOLY SPIRIT
    CHRISTIANS
    CONSIENCE
    SACRAMENT
    OUR LORD
    GODS WORD
    UNHOLY
    CHRISTIAN

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    In my own family over Xmas no one had a problem with SSM. However a few did take issue with gay adoption and feel that this issue is being tacked onto to the marriage referendum when they feel they're two distinct issues. They feel gay adoption is being slid under their noses and hence they're voting no to the entire thing. I can see their point of view, many people are going to feel that if there is an orphaned child up for adoption the single best thing to do for the child is to give it to a couple that has both a male and a female influence, all other things being equal.

    Leaving aside the fact that the adoption legislation is, AFAIK, being dealt with prior to the referendum, (and leaving aside that male and female influence thing) you can really see the point of people denying equal rights to thousands of couples for the sake of a hypothetical situation where two couples wish to adopt and have the same income, ethnicity, medical histories, job security, length of marriage etc., but in the case of one couple a fanny or a willy is missing? Really?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    "Beastly obsession with unholy acts" :pac:

    What a comically written piece of bigoted tripe. I'll be proudly voting Yes even though the referendum doesn't affect me personally but I'm a big fan of equality. And I admire the Gay's for what they have achieved in the last 20/30 years.

    Does anyone know who funds these leaflets ?

    The spelling and grammar would definitely imply that English was not the first language of the author.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Evidence?????

    GOOD CHRISTIAN
    CHRIST
    LUKE 12:12
    HOLY SPIRIT
    CHRISTIANS
    CONSIENCE
    SACRAMENT
    OUR LORD
    GODS WORD
    UNHOLY
    CHRISTIAN

    Oh lord Jesus I made typo see my original post :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    No. Really damned is an archaic term.

    I have been out of circulation for a while, what is the official catholic line on unrepentant non-believers?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Evidence?????

    GOOD CHRISTIAN
    CHRIST
    LUKE 12:12
    HOLY SPIRIT
    CHRISTIANS
    CONSIENCE
    SACRAMENT
    OUR LORD
    GODS WORD
    UNHOLY
    CHRISTIAN
    You spelt it wrong, it's spelt "scarament" according to the leaflet. The leaflet was drafted directly by Jesus so it must be right.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    So you don't mind if I call you thick because of your lack of belief?

    Would you stand up in the High Court and call a Judge thick because he wouldnt hear a case with zero evidence? No you wouldnt because it would be ridiculous.

    Calling someone thick because they do not believe in something you cannot prove is, well, thick. Going back to the High Court example again, the burden of proof is on those making the allegations ie the Church. Building big shiny buildings and robbing poor people of their money does not equate to showing the existence of God.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Well I'd be reasonably sure that this particular delightful leaflet was produced and funded by a religious group of some description, probably based outside the jurisdiction.

    It would be ever so nice if they were to stick to their own country and not stick their noses in where it is not wanted and stop peddling the twee idea of Ireland being a "good catholic country".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    I have been out of circulation for a while, what is the official catholic line on unrepentant non-believers?

    You'll have to ring Francis. Im 50 next week and I've never heard anyone in Admin use the word damned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    The spelling and grammar would definitely imply that English was not the first language of the author.


    Plus given some of the language itself (and I'm only going on what's been posted here as I haven't seen the leaflet itself), it sounds more likely it was published by a group of the Pentecostal faith rather than RC.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    In my own family over Xmas no one had a problem with SSM. However a few did take issue with gay adoption and feel that this issue is being tacked onto to the marriage referendum when they feel they're two distinct issues. They feel gay adoption is being slid under their noses and hence they're voting no to the entire thing. I can see their point of view, many people are going to feel that if there is an orphaned child up for adoption the single best thing to do for the child is to give it to a couple that has both a male and a female influence, all other things being equal.

    Anyway Paddy Power is giving odds of 1/12 of it passing and something like 5/1 against. Turnout is likely to be low as its not something 95% of people stand to benefit from. I reckon the religious right can pull this one off, they're organised and have networks of older voters to tap into. At 5/1 its worth a wee flutter, it certainly won't be the 70-30 in favour that the polls are currently predicting, I can see this one get a lot closer yet.

    If the Church are so concerned that children get parenting from a woman and a man, why arent they taking kids off single mothers? Why arent all one parent families illegitimate?

    There should be no restrictions on gay adoption different to those applied in heterosexual adoption. Do people not see that not recognising that fact is discriminating against people based on their sexual preference?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    You'll have to ring Francis. Im 50 next week and I've never heard anyone in Admin use the word damned.


    We'll say the term is sinner so. I am a sinner, and these people who believe that their religious views should be forced on others by law, they are thick.

    sick of being told to mind the sensiblities of people who couldn't give a **** about mine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    So you don't mind if I call you thick because of your lack of belief?

    You can, but then I can show you studies which show that atheists tend to be higher educated and the fact I have been at the top of my class for the past 3 years.

    You can call me thick but if I am actually thick then I worry about how many people dress themselves in the morning. You are saying that a person is thick because they don't believe everything they are told. You have a belief and are free to have it but if you start trying to get the state to treat me differently for being thick but I doubt anyone would listen to you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    If the Church are so concerned that children get parenting from a woman and a man, why arent they taking kids off single mothers? Why arent all one parent families illegitimate?

    There should be no restrictions on gay adoption different to those applied in heterosexual adoption. Do people not see that not recognising that fact is discriminating against people based on their sexual preference?

    Thats been tried before.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Would you stand up in the High Court and call a Judge thick because he wouldnt hear a case with zero evidence? No you wouldnt because it would be ridiculous.

    Calling someone thick because they do not believe in something you cannot prove is, well, thick. Going back to the High Court example again, the burden of proof is on those making the allegations ie the Church. Building big shiny buildings and robbing poor people of their money does not equate to showing the existence of God.
    I don't know what your on about. A poster said that I'd have to accept it if she called me thick because of my beliefs. Are you saying that she doesn't have to accept it if I say I find her thick bbecause of her lack of belief?


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Evidence?????

    GOOD CHRISTIAN
    CHRIST
    LUKE 12:12
    HOLY SPIRIT
    CHRISTIANS
    CONSIENCE
    SACRAMENT
    OUR LORD
    GODS WORD
    UNHOLY
    CHRISTIAN

    Iona Institute? I say we post them some GCN magazines and a few Gay porn DVDs!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I don't know what your on about. A poster said that I'd have to accept it if she called me thick because of my beliefs. Are you saying that she doesn't have to accept it if I say I find her thick bbecause of her lack of belief?

    FFS nobody is thick or not thick because of what they chose or not to believe in. If you wish to live your life based on interpretations of a bronze age text then go for it, just don't force others to do the same if that's not their cup of Earl Grey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,153 ✭✭✭everdead.ie


    Out of interest where was this leaflet handed out?

    I find it very strange these days to have anyone anti-ssm I mean I literally don't know anyone who has voiced opposition to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Thats been tried before.

    It's never been about their principles - at least not solely.

    It's about what they can get away with.

    They're diluting their beliefs little by little to the point where, eventually, even if religion hasn't been wiped out, it'll be so vague and inoffensive that there won't be much difference.

    It's a good solution. People will still have the warm fuzzy feeling of belonging to something without having to act like a hateful arsehole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    You can, but then I can show you studies which show that atheists tend to be higher educated and the fact I have been at the top of my class for the past 3 years.

    You can call me thick but if I am actually thick then I worry about how many people dress themselves in the morning. You are saying that a person is thick because they don't believe everything they are told. You have a belief and are free to have it but if you start trying to get the state to treat me differently for being thick but I doubt anyone would listen to you.

    That's grand. Im thick and so are you. I wouldn't be worrying about how people dress themselves in the morning if I were you. When you gett to my age you'll realise how unimportant being first in the class is and how important not being an intellectual snob is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    That's grand. Im thick and so are you. I wouldn't be worrying about how people dress themselves in the morning if I were you. When you gett to my age you'll realise how unimportant being first in the class is and how important not being an intellectual snob is.

    :rolleyes:

    You say you think Im thick, then complain Im being an intellectual snob. Some people are never happy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    That's grand. Im thick and so are you. I wouldn't be worrying about how people dress themselves in the morning if I were you. When you gett to my age you'll realise how unimportant being first in the class is and how important not being an intellectual snob is.


    ....but not anything about arriving in a thread in the internet looking for a fight, evidently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    P_1 wrote: »
    Well I'd be reasonably sure that this particular delightful leaflet was produced and funded by a religious group of some description, probably based outside the jurisdiction.

    It would be ever so nice if they were to stick to their own country and not stick their noses in where it is not wanted and stop peddling the twee idea of Ireland being a "good catholic country".


    There are more religious groups in Ireland though than just those of the RC persuasion (can't list them all off the top of my head, but the census figures should be a good indicator). I think that's something some posters here fail to acknowledge at times, possibly because they've only been exposed to the RCC.

    Ironically enough, they ARE sticking to their own country (Ireland), but some of them are just as interested in converting Catholics as some atheists are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    P_1 wrote: »
    FFS nobody is thick or not thick because of what they chose or not to believe in. If you wish to live your life based on interpretations of a bronze age text then go for it, just don't force others to do the same if that's not their cup of Earl Grey.

    No, no a poster is quite certain that im thick. She's since backed this up by telling mevthat she's been first in her class for 3 whole years. And I never force my beliefs on anyone. It's you are being forceful in fact.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    It's like an old school black metal album.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    No, no a poster is quite certain that im thick. She's since backed this up by telling mevthat she's been first in her class for 3 whole years. And I never force my beliefs on anyone. It's you are being forceful in fact.

    1. Im a he
    2. Where have I said you are thick?

    You seem quite fond of making claims about things I say. At least its not genocide this time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    :rolleyes:

    You say you think Im thick, then complain Im being an intellectual snob. Some people are never happy
    ....and with such excellent use of a roll eyes
    Smiley, you are indeed the intellectual superior. I bow before you.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 423 ✭✭The Bould Rabbit


    When is the gay wedding referendum?


    Do we have to put up with this kind of tripe for the next few months? :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    ....and with such excellent use of a roll eyes
    Smiley, you are indeed the intellectual superior. I bow before you.

    Have you found where I said you were thick yet? Or are you trying to make new claims about me?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....but not anything about arriving in a thread in the internet looking for a fight, evidently.

    So I arrived in the thread on page 5. When did you arrive?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    If this doesn't pass I'm out of here. It will be a sure sign that my ideals are completely disconnected from the country at large.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    That is horrible. No point in saying more than that, because the views of other posters correlate with my own.

    I'll be lobbying my local T.D.'s and councillors, alright. Making sure to let them know they've lost a (potential) vote if they're opposed to civil marriage. Be interesting to see what T.D.'s "come out" in opposition to civil marriage, especially those belonging to a political party (as all the parties officially support civil marriage). Will they lose the party whip and stuff if they oppose it?

    In fairness to all the parties, at least they're in support of it. Don't know of any that are opposed. Except maybe some party like DDI or something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Have you found where I said you were thick yet? Or are you trying to make new claims about me?

    Oh your FAR TOO CLEVER to be caught actually describing another poster directly as thick, cos then you'd get banned? But indirect is fine. Thats why it'd be fine for me to say that I would find those of no belief as kinda thick too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,070 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Has anyone answered the question that someone asked earlier?

    Who is distributing these leaflets?

    Some people are going on about catholic groups, but those leaflets seem a lot more likely to have been created by a US conservative evangelical-like sort of group. I've seen very similar stuff handed out by them when I lived in the US

    As far as I know they are very active in these sort of campaigns outside of America too. I'm pretty sure they've even been active in Ireland before. I'm not saying it's not a catholic group that's behind it but I wouldn't take it as a given either tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    JaseHeath wrote: »
    That is horrible. No point in saying more than that, because the views of other posters correlate with my own.

    I'll be lobbying my local T.D.'s and councillors, alright. Making sure to let them know they've lost a (potential) vote if they're opposed to civil marriage. Be interesting to see what T.D.'s "come out" in opposition to civil marriage, especially those belonging to a political party (as all the parties officially support civil marriage). Will they lose the party whip and stuff if they oppose it?

    In fairness to all the parties, at least they're in support of it. Don't know of any that are opposed. Except maybe some party like DDI or something.

    I'd say there will ne no such thing as losing the party whip in s referendum. As we were saying yhe main enemy of the yes vpre is low turn out. Apathy and indifference. Hopefully the weather will be fine too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,731 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    If you sent a leflet like that around and swtched the words "homosexual" and "liberal" with the words "Chrsitan" you'd be guilty of a crime.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    When is the gay wedding.....

    Equal marriage

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Oh your FAR TOO CLEVER to be caught actually describing another poster directly as thick, cos then you'd get banned? But indirect is fine. Thats why it'd be fine for me to say that I would find those of no belief as kinda thick too.

    I've been thinking it would be a good idea to write a little guide for new posters that isn't about the rules, but how if you've got an idea of how the site works and don't personally antagonize a mod you can get away with so much baiting and indirectly insulting of a poster until they get angry enough to directly have a go and then get carded/banned.
    Its a fine art that can be seen in action by many of the 10,000+ posters (or they're cousins the 2000 posts and then re-reggers).
    This post here is only a poor example as I'm not very good at it :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    Has anyone answered the question that someone asked earlier?

    Who is distributing these leaflets?

    Some people are going on about catholic groups, but those leaflets seem a lot more likely to have been created by a US conservative evangelical-like sort of group. I've seen very similar stuff handed out by them when I lived in the US

    As far as I know they are very active in these sort of campaigns outside of America too. I'm pretty sure they've even been active in Ireland before. I'm not saying it's not a catholic group that's behind it but I wouldn't take it as a given either tbh.

    i don't know, but i just showed it to my practicing catholic husband and he was disgusted by it, he really believes in the let him live his life by his catholic values but let others live their lives by their own life values.

    i'd imagine many catholics would feel similar to him, at least the ones i know would, (or maybe they are just nice to me because i am agnostic)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    i don't know, but i just showed it to my practicing catholic husband and he was disgusted by it, he really believes in the let him live his life by his catholic values but let others live their lives by their own life values.

    i'd imagine many catholics would feel similar to him, at least the ones i know would, (or maybe they are just nice to me because i am agnostic)

    He'll be hearing nothing but anti SSM ****e from the pulpit from now until May. I really hope people like himself who don't agree with the church on this issue make it known that they don't agree.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Oh your FAR TOO CLEVER to be caught actually describing another poster directly as thick, cos then you'd get banned? But indirect is fine. Thats why it'd be fine for me to say that I would find those of no belief as kinda thick too.

    Well if you have a problem with something report it. That or start a thread in the conspiracy theory forum. Don't bother responding, I won't see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    eviltwin wrote: »
    He'll be hearing nothing but anti SSM ****e from the pulpit from now until May. I really hope people like himself who don't agree with the church on this issue make it known that they don't agree.

    no he won't, the priest where we go to mass is very forward thinking and doesn't go for that crap, in fact his sermon's are more based on the real world of his parishioners, like a few weeks ago was one where jesus did something (i really zone out sorry) but he equated it all into a mental health awareness thing and where he basically said jesus would want you to love someone no matter who they are or what they are in to.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭GalwayGuitar


    I still think in the current climate, you would want to have some appalling self esteem and\or analytical skills to want to be involved and gay.

    Plenty of gay pedos had a great time in the Church.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    no he won't, the priest where we go to mass is very forward thinking and doesn't go for that crap, in fact his sermon's are more based on the real world of his parishioners, like a few weeks ago was one where jesus did something (i really zone out sorry) but he equated it all into a mental health awareness thing and where he basically said jesus would want you to love someone no matter who they are or what they are in to.

    That's great, its great to see that kind of person in the church. Its just the overall organisation is very much against the idea of SSM so I wonder will the Archbishop have one of those letters they read out in every mass that appeals for a No vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Plenty of gay pedos had a great time in the Church.


    I don't know that paedos are split into straight/gay/bisexual...


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