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And it begins... (bigot brigade anti-SSM leaflets) - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post ###

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,409 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    But surely if they consistently don't agree with Church teachings including gay marriage...it just makes it all a joke?

    The EU did a survey on religious beliefs in all the member countries. Apparently there's something like 20% of Catholics in Ireland who don't believe in life after death.
    They're cultural catholics. They go to weddings and funerals etc but that's it. As for the rest, they all have varying levels of commitment. From the bible bashing, gay hating, hardcore Iona/Precious life guys, to someone who goes to mass but still has premarital sex and uses contraception.

    Edit: hadn't seen the mod note. I really just wanted to say that the catholic church contains a huge range of people. In a smaller church groups you'd be more likely to find a homogeneous set of beliefs (yep, I said homo)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Is stoning people still part of the teachings (it's in the bible afterall)?

    Of course it is. Have you not noticed all the Sunday.lunchtime stonings. It currently at an all time record high. Most likely to get stoned to death next are ""The Damned" caught asking about it on internet forums.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    I agree with same-sex marriage!

    Okay. I'm just tired of religious argument being dragged into this. It's irrelevant. The sooner we have a total separation of church and state the better. Never going to happen, but a guy can hope.

    SD


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    StudentDad wrote: »
    Okay. I'm just tired of religious argument being dragged into this. It's irrelevant. The sooner we have a total separation of church and state the better. Never going to happen, but a guy can hope.

    SD

    I was just playing devil's advocate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I'm not 100% convinced either way. Mainly because I haven't heard any debate on gay adoption, none has occured whatsoever so I'm not fully informed.

    However a family member made the point that when it comes to adoption the only consideration should be that of the best interests of the child, the interests of the couple trying to adopt are secondary to the equation, be that couple homosexual or hetreosexual. If it is the case that children are better served by having a male and a female influence in their life then it is in the childs best interests that they have both a male and a female influence. For my sibling this isn't about denying gay couples rights, its about doing whats best for children who are up for adoption. I guess its not that much different to a single parent trying to adopt- the parent might be the perfect parent but most people would agree that its in the childs best interests to have two parents where possible. In the case of adoption demand outweighs supply so it should always be possible to find two parents for an adoptee.

    Anyway I just think there has been a total lack of debate on the issue. Gay marriage brings rights for gay adoption yet I haven't heard any pro or anti arguments to this in advance of the referendum thus far. I'm sure there are many voters who are pro-SSM but might have differing opinions on adoption.

    The studies show that the sexual orientation of your parents is not going to be a positive or negative influence on your development. No offence, but that's a red herring thrown up by a lot of people who are grasping for a respectable reason to oppose SSM.

    And, anyways, again: are you proposing that it's reasonable to vote against SSM because of the absolutely tiny chance that two couples wanting to adopt at the same time will be the same age, have the same income, be exactly as physically and mentally healthy as each other, be together for exactly as long, but one couple is straight and the other gay, and you just have a gut feeling that the absence of a male or female influence would't be in the best interests of the child?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I was just playing devil's advocate.

    Said the actress to the bishop!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 266 ✭✭markfinn


    Foxhound38 wrote: »
    The child in the leaflet has a face on her like a car alarm - she must have heard some sodomy because she doesn't look like a happy camper!

    Nah, that's a bit harsh. That, right there, is the realization filtered back from later life, that her parent have (quite literally) made her the poster child for bigotry and intolerance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    The studies show that the sexual orientation of your parents is not going to be a positive or negative influence on your development. No offence, but that's a red herring thrown up by a lot of people who are grasping for a respectable reason to oppose SSM.

    And, anyways, again: are you proposing that it's reasonable to vote against SSM because of the absolutely tiny chance that two couples wanting to adopt at the same time will be the same age, have the same income, be exactly as physically and mentally healthy as each other, be together for exactly as long, but one couple is straight and the other gay, and you just have a gut feeling that the absence of a male or female influence would't be in the best interests of the child?

    I had a theoretical concern and it was literally my only concern with this in that we would have a situation where a religious mother would not be able to choose to "hand over" her child to a family of her faith (making an already painful process harder) due to the impact of equality legislation RE: The case in England (which was decided by court judgment).

    Its not actually a practical concern I found out though because the number of internal adoptions in Ireland that don't go to relatives or other associated persons is truly minuscule.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    I'd hope that a leaflet like that will make people who are on the fence stop and think...


    'THAT's the best argument they have against SSM? Children hearing the "sounds of sodomy???"'

    And realize...

    'If that's the best argument that can be put forward to oppose SSM... There's not much argument against SSM really...'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,684 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Deenie123 wrote: »
    I'd hope that a leaflet like that will make people who are on the fence stop and think...


    'THAT's the best argument they have against SSM? Children hearing the "sounds of sodomy???"'

    And realize...

    'If that's the best argument that can be put forward to oppose SSM... There's not much argument against SSM really...'

    That's how I'd see it as well.

    Not everyone is going to see it that way though, and that's why it's important not to get complacent and get out there and vote when the time comes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5



    Its not actually a practical concern I found out though because the number of internal adoptions in Ireland that don't go to relatives or other associated persons is truly minuscule.

    Yup, and yet somehow people are more concerned about the hypothetical welfare of adoptive children in cases that are never likely to arise than they are about the welfare of actual children living with a parent and that parent's same sex partner. Again, leaving aside that this referendum has zilch to do with adoption.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Of course it is. Have you not noticed all the Sunday.lunchtime stonings. It currently at an all time record high. Most likely to get stoned to death next are ""The Damned" caught asking about it on internet forums.

    Hey, don't blame me because you are a la carte.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Yup, and yet somehow people are more concerned about the hypothetical welfare of adoptive children in cases that are never likely to arise than they are about the welfare of actual children living with a parent and that parent's same sex partner. Again, leaving aside that this referendum has zilch to do with adoption.

    Yeah to be clear my concern was not for the child as I believe that as long as an effort is made to have some socialization of the opposite gender in the childs life, adoption between same sex couples is a completely valid family unit (and arguably they are more likely to be more 'motivated' parents as its long hard highly vetted process that isn't just fallen into).

    It was to do with the idea that it would make the process harder for the birth mother (and its not that out there an idea as I'm sure of the women who choose adoption to handle crisis pregnancy are motivated by religious principles). As I said it was a minor concern that wouldn't have caused me to vote no and looking at the actual rates its not even that

    As you say though this referendum isn't about this adoption as such but I thought part of the reasoning was why this is needed (apart from the obvious equality angle) is that the partnership agreements that exist currently have issues legal issues around a gay couples children (like in terms of death of a partner and so on?)

    Edit: Anyway these issues could have been solved by a softening of the churches stance


  • Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    from my own perspective, the weakness i see in the yes campaign is a presumption that people will vote yes.
    we had a presentation from the LGBT society in college and all they talked about was how to register to vote, not one word on the positive reasons to vote yes or why people should vote yes and to be honest this presumption did annoy me.
    I believe it is important that the supporters of this referendum start trying to reach the undecided, which i believe is what will sway the vote in the yes campaigns favour, just my two cents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    jimboblep wrote: »
    from my own perspective, the weakness i see in the yes campaign is a presumption that people will vote yes.
    we had a presentation from the LGBT society in college and all they talked about was how to register to vote, not one word on the positive reasons to vote yes or why people should vote yes and to be honest this presumption did annoy me.
    I believe it is important that the supporters of this referendum start trying to reach the undecided, which i believe is what will sway the vote in the yes campaigns favour, just my two cents.

    Yeah there should be more put out about how this is to benefit fellow citizens in a practical way in ordering their lives, clearer legal definition of the relationship and the ability to be named next of kin and finally equality. emphasis on the civil nature of the change and how it is not impacting in any the religious marriage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    I have an uncle who would absolutely endorse this leaflet.
    I love having arguments with him but it's amazing how warped people can make themselves.
    He now thinks if he brings me back to religion, he will get a superb seat in heaven.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Hey, don't blame me because you are a la carte.

    Yes . Your right. I really shouldn't be ignoring my religious leaders regular public instructions to commence stoning asap. I mean You hear it announced constantly ,so it's just me?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    When is the gay wedding referendum?


    Do we have to put up with this kind of tripe for the next few months? :(

    May.

    I heard that Enda is actually going to take part in the debate on this referendum. I think we might all be better off if he didn't bother.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Yes . Your right. I really shouldn't be ignoring my religious leaders regular public instructions to commence stoning asap. I mean You hear it announced constantly ,so it's just me?


    Dude, don't get in my face because you are a la carte. I will take any bleating about religious people being described as thick with a massive pinch of salt, as there seems to be a free pass for religions talking **** about everything else.

    that you are picking and choosing which tenants of your faith to believe is beyond the point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭Meangadh


    It will never cease to amaze me why anyone would get themselves in a tizzy about what two consenting adults want do with their genitalia.

    It will also never cease to amaze me why anyone would want to prevent a child from being adopted into a loving home where they will be cared for and given so much more in life than they would if they were left in whatever situation they are currently in.

    I can only assume that the naysayers have f**k all else going on in their lives because I don't know about ye, but I have neither the time nor the energy to be worried about two men or two women wanting to live their lives like any other couple. I couldn't give less of a flip. I will say though that it would mean so much to my gay friends, and by association I would be delighted for them too.

    Apathy aside though- when the referendum day comes, I will absolutely be voting, and anyone else who "doesn't care" should show that very feeling by voting for same sex marriage. Given the presence of people who will go about with leaflets like we're talking about here, it's absolutely of the utmost importance that as many as possible get out and vote. Don't assume this is safe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Dude, don't get in my face because you are a la carte. I will take any bleating about religious people being described as thick with a massive pinch of salt, as there seems to be a free pass for religions talking **** about everything else.

    that you are picking and choosing which tenants of your faith to believe is beyond the point.

    Im not a dude.
    It's a tenet. Tenants rent property.
    Here, read up about the tenets. No stoning.


    http://www.beginningcatholic.com/tenets-of-catholicism.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    in fact after reading through pages of documents so far all studies coming from america have shown a child raised with two same sex parents are indistinguishable from children raised by two heterosexual parents,

    i think the overall consensus was no matter how many parents a child had as long as they were loved and secure they in general did better in life, so a single mother, or a child with two mothers, or two fathers was likely to do better than the child raised by a mother and father who didn't give that child love or security.

    I've heard of these studies but havent yet have time to read them or how they draw conclusions on children of homosexual couples doing just as well as those as hetreosexual couples. Like its one thing to survey adopted kids when they're older and check how they did education wise, career wise, etc and come to the conclusion that everyone does the same. But I'm wondering do these these surveys ever look at minute details like two gay men raising a young girl and how well equipped they are at understanding her perspective as she goes through puberty, chnages in her body, hormone levels, attention from boys and (inevitably) dissappointment from boys, all those things that mothers have been dealing with for years. Thats the part I'm unsure of, I'm not saying that a two male gays can never manage such a child but it does appear to me that they are at a distinct disadvantage over a maternal influence who herself has gone through all the things a teenage girl will and therefore has a unique perspective that two gay males do not. I think psychologists would call it tacit knowledge, i.e. its the things a woman knows from her experience of being a woman.

    Thats the part I'm not sure of. As stated before I'm not against the idea of gay couples adopting, I'm more so interested in being sure that adoption takes place from a child-centric point of view and it is always the childs best interests that are at the heart of it, not the couples, irrespective of their sexuality.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    That leaflet is hilarious, don't know about any of you guys but regardless of sexual orientation hearing your parents having sex is not something and child regardless of age wants to hear.

    Think the only answer is to ban sex, we need to go to a future demolition man type of virtual sex so the kids won't be harmed.

    Artificial insemination for all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    Calhoun wrote: »
    That leaflet is hilarious, don't know about any of you guys but regardless of sexual orientation hearing your parents having sex is not something and child regardless of age wants to hear.

    Think the only answer is to ban sex, we need to go to a future demolition man type of virtual sex so the kids won't be harmed.

    Artificial insemination for all.

    You mean we should all be celibate? Is that the official church line now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I've heard of these studies but havent yet have time to read them or how they draw conclusions on children of homosexual couples doing just as well as those as hetreosexual couples. Like its one thing to survey adopted kids when they're older and check how they did education wise, career wise, etc and come to the conclusion that everyone does the same. But I'm wondering do these these surveys ever look at minute details like two gay men raising a young girl and how well equipped they are at understanding her perspective as she goes through puberty, chnages in her body, hormone levels, attention from boys and (inevitably) dissappointment from boys, all those things that mothers have been dealing with for years. Thats the part I'm unsure of, I'm not saying that a two male gays can never manage such a child but it does appear to me that they are at a distinct disadvantage over a maternal influence who herself has gone through all the things a teenage girl will and therefore has a unique perspective that two gay males do not. I think psychologists would call it tacit knowledge, i.e. its the things a woman knows from her experience of being a woman.

    Thats the part I'm not sure of. As stated before I'm not against the idea of gay couples adopting, I'm more so interested in being sure that adoption takes place from a child-centric point of view and it is always the childs best interests that are at the heart of it, not the couples, irrespective of their sexuality.

    I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Im not a dude.
    It's a tenet. Tenants rent property.
    Here, read up about the tenets. No stoning.


    http://www.beginningcatholic.com/tenets-of-catholicism.html

    Dude is an all purpose term as far as I am concerned. And you will have to blame auto correct for tenants.

    And I was basing what I said on the Bible.

    So no, I won't be crying salt tears for some religious nuts (no, not all of them are nuts, but a sizeable chunk, including the authors of the leaflet being discussed) being described as thick. For **** sake, you can still fire someone for being gay if you have a religious ethos here! The butthurtedness over the word thick is hilarious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I've heard of these studies but havent yet have time to read them or how they draw conclusions on children of homosexual couples doing just as well as those as hetreosexual couples. Like its one thing to survey adopted kids when they're older and check how they did education wise, career wise, etc and come to the conclusion that everyone does the same. But I'm wondering do these these surveys ever look at minute details like two gay men raising a young girl and how well equipped they are at understanding her perspective as she goes through puberty, chnages in her body, hormone levels, attention from boys and (inevitably) dissappointment from boys, all those things that mothers have been dealing with for years. Thats the part I'm unsure of, I'm not saying that a two male gays can never manage such a child but it does appear to me that they are at a distinct disadvantage over a maternal influence who herself has gone through all the things a teenage girl will and therefore has a unique perspective that two gay males do not. I think psychologists would call it tacit knowledge, i.e. its the things a woman knows from her experience of being a woman.

    Thats the part I'm not sure of. As stated before I'm not against the idea of gay couples adopting, I'm more so interested in being sure that adoption takes place from a child-centric point of view and it is always the childs best interests that are at the heart of it, not the couples, irrespective of their sexuality.


    I think there are lots of single mums raising sons, and single dads raising daughters out there. I've never heard of children being negatively affected because their parent is of the opposite gender.

    As far as being able to understand what the daughter is going through during puberty/teenage years... I think two people who are likely to have had a harder than normal puberty are probably quite well placed to be sympathetic!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭Pwindedd


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role

    Totally agree with this, but you put it way more succinctly than I could have. I've a daughter and I raised her myself for the first 6 years. Lots of male influence though, dad, brother, male friends, teachers etc. very similar circumstances in fact to a lesbian couple raising a child.

    The Beatles had it right. All you need is love.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    Pwindedd wrote: »
    The Beatles had it right. All you need is love.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    is it still ok for the wife my special birthday treat or is that bad aswell now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Evidence?????

    GOOD CHRISTIAN
    CHRIST
    LUKE 12:12
    HOLY SPIRIT
    CHRISTIANS
    CONSIENCE
    SACRAMENT
    OUR LORD
    GODS WORD
    UNHOLY
    CHRISTIAN

    there you go with your evidence! Blind faith ftw :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I'm not 100% convinced either way. Mainly because I haven't heard any debate on gay adoption, none has occured whatsoever so I'm not fully informed.

    However a family member made the point that when it comes to adoption the only consideration should be that of the best interests of the child, the interests of the couple trying to adopt are secondary to the equation, be that couple homosexual or hetreosexual. If it is the case that children are better served by having a male and a female influence in their life then it is in the childs best interests that they have both a male and a female influence. For my sibling this isn't about denying gay couples rights, its about doing whats best for children who are up for adoption. I guess its not that much different to a single parent trying to adopt- the parent might be the perfect parent but most people would agree that its in the childs best interests to have two parents where possible. In the case of adoption demand outweighs supply so it should always be possible to find two parents for an adoptee.

    Anyway I just think there has been a total lack of debate on the issue. Gay marriage brings rights for gay adoption yet I haven't heard any pro or anti arguments to this in advance of the referendum thus far. I'm sure there are many voters who are pro-SSM but might have differing opinions on adoption.

    Thats interesting.

    Theres a few things that need to be cleared up firstly though.

    Single people can adopt under current law as can gay people. There is no current ban on gay people adopting.

    Secondly the government has already made it clear that it will bring in laws to enable civil partnered or cohabiting couples to be eligible jointly to adopt a
    child before the referendum so regardless of the referendum result adoption for gay couples will be legal anyway.

    Firstly I think your relative is correct. The best interests of the child should always come first.

    The thing is the OVERWHELMING evidence on parenting has been positive.

    The American Paediatric Association has said

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/e1374.short
    Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children's well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents' sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents. Lack of opportunity for same-gender couples to marry adds to families’ stress, which affects the health and welfare of all household members. Because marriage strengthens families and, in so doing, benefits children’s development, children should not be deprived of the opportunity for their parents to be married.

    I believe they are right. I believe Conor Prendergast and Christine Irwin Murphy should have grown up and had rights to legal relationships with BOTH of their parents

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Dude is an all purpose term as far as I am concerned. And you will have to blame auto correct for tenants.

    And I was basing what I said on the Bible.

    So no, I won't be crying salt tears for some religious nuts (no, not all of them are nuts, but a sizeable chunk, including the authors of the leaflet being discussed) being described as thick. For **** sake, you can still fire someone for being gay if you have a religious ethos here! The butthurtedness over the word thick is hilarious.

    It's not my fault that you didn't know the the difference between the tenets of RCC and the Bible.if you set out to mock and scorn you really should be sure of your main points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I know where your coming from but millions of girls are raised by single dads because for whatever reason the mam is totally off the scene. There always some Aunt cousin neighbour around to deal with the "ladies only" stuff. I cant imagine a male gay couple without a whole posse of galpals to fulfill this role

    The Church was great on telling girls about periods and sex.

    But seriously, knowledge of these "ladies only" stuff as you put it and how to deal with it with your daughters, depends on the person, not the gender. Some mothers/fathers won't talk about sex with their children still for example. Two gay men might actually be better, dare I say it, with dealing with these matters with their daughters and their sons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    Who is distributing these leaflets?

    Did we get an answer to this question? You'd have to imagine they are the most gullible people in Ireland. I wonder are they getting paid to distribute this stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    That shower should fire their graphic designer. The leaflet implies that sodomy sounds like a big bell.

    Now, where's the only place I hear big bells on a twice daily basis...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    endacl wrote: »
    That shower should fire their graphic designer. The leaflet implies that sodomy sounds like a big bell.

    Now, where's the only place I hear big bells on a twice daily basis...?

    I thought it was a bell too but I see now it's a lampshade.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,945 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    I've yet to hear an argument against marriage equality that does not come from a place of ignorance. This nonsense belongs in the past and not in our bleedin mailbox.

    Trending on reddit. And Twitter. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2req2t/this_is_exactly_why_i_have_been_dreading_the/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    I've yet to hear an argument against marriage equality that does not come from a place of ignorance. This nonsense belongs in the past and not in our bleedin mailbox.

    Trending on reddit. And Twitter. http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/2req2t/this_is_exactly_why_i_have_been_dreading_the/

    To be honest it's probably a good thing. It will galvanise a yes vote and prevent apathy about what some see is foregone conclusion. Remember Enda is debating for a Yes vote ;).

    I work with old people (65+) in a voluntary capacity and you'd be surprised how many of them would be "behind the times" on issues like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    The Church was great on telling girls about periods and sex.

    But seriously, knowledge of these "ladies only" stuff as you put it and how to deal with it with your daughters, depends on the person, not the gender. Some mothers/fathers won't talk about sex with their children still for example. Two gay men might actually be better, dare I say it, with dealing with these matters with their daughters and their sons.

    Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
    Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    It's not my fault that you didn't know the the difference between the tenets of RCC and the Bible.if you set out to mock and scorn you really should be sure of your main points.

    I didn't think catholic tenets superseded the Bible. That would make the religion even harder to take seriously.


    What I am out to mock and scorn? My grandmother is a staunch catholic, and I worship the very ground she walks on. But even she knows that some ultra-religious people are ****ing thick. The people who are distributing this leaflet are ****ing thick. We are talking about the people who wrote this leaflet. These religious people are thick.

    And speaking as someone subjected to the rather charming things nuns/teachers/priests have had to say about people like me when I was growing up, it is very hard to take religious people seriously when they complain about name calling.

    It's not the pro-ssm side dragging catholicism into the debate - the church is doing that by sticking its oar in. I assure you, the yes side would prefer religion didn't come into it at all...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
    Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

    Who the **** ever needed a physical demonstration of that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
    Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

    I've never had to demonstrate to my daughter how to insert a tampon. No one showed me either. It's only a tampon, hardly rocket science.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Who the **** ever needed a physical demonstration of that?

    One great girl gave my daughter and all her pals a demo. These girls these days are no shrinking violets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭Deenie123


    I'd have died of mortification if my mother gave a demonstration of how to insert a tampon! Cripes!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Firstly you seem to have a thing about the Church?! Whats that about?
    Secondly I would safely say that the periods tampons towels mooncup heavy flow light flow disposal of sanitary .protection, pain management PMT chat would definitely be more authentic coming from a woman as men, even gay men, simply cannot claim to have any personal experience in this matter, no?For example a man cannot physically demonstrate tampon insertion.

    A priest knows **** all about marraige but try getting married without going to marriage classes run by them.

    http://www.together.ie/speakers.php


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    One great girl gave my daughter and all her pals a demo. These girls these days are no shrinking violets.

    Ok but is it specifically needed?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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