Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Denis O'Brien Irelands Sinister Fringe.
Options
Comments
-
Consumerism came from post-war USA. Wants suddenly became needs and corporations made us all insecure so we HAD to buy the new car, house, phone, shirt whatever.
This wasn't evil or a conspiracy. It was and is marketing.
The youngest generations (born after 9/11) are remarkably marketing savvy. Millennial and Gen Xers are too. Brand loyalty is in the toilet for these age groups and corporations don't know what to do about it because more marketing isn't the answer. It might seem like there are brands everywhere but Starbucks and MacDonalds are loosing ground to small groups of college students setting up cafés and burrito joints. They've had a bigger impact on their profits and share price than any protest, injunction or boycott.
So, remarkably, tacking corporations isn't best done through socialism but through capitalism.
And if you think Apple and Samsung aren't scratching their heads at how to tackle this little gem then you're wrong.
Setting up a business and tackling problems for the average person is easier now than it every has been throughout history. And, to balance things out, you can open your laptop and buy Apple shares if you fancy.
I also don't put faith in a trans-human future. The technology exists and is being used. Soldiers with no limbs are having bionic legs hooked up to their brains while a new leg is being grown in Berlin for them. We're sending humans to Mars soon to live there forever.
no, no you misunderstand me..I dont think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy..just because some things ARE. I know it was marketing and i know the age of interruption marketing is over and I know on mobile digital devices the marketers are at their wits end because NOTHING works...
But no, it is still easier to do business if you are wealthy in the first place. That is why there has been a verifiably HUGE transfer of wealth from the middle and lower classes to the richest people on earth since the bank collapse in 2008
And...i do not want to live on Mars. I like it here
0 -
So why is the model in such a mess?All knowledge is contestable - there are no truths. What I do know is there is an act of congress, there is an institution and they file returns. I'm content with accepting what I've read from various sources both supportive and critical of the model. People are obviously free to interrogate other sources and take a different view.
Who do congress report to? Who are congress?
What institution? Where do they file their returns to?
I'm not trying to be pedantic or square up to you or anything.
I'm asking these questions to see if anyone actually knows the answers to these questions. It seems to me that we hear the word 'congress' or 'returns' and we go "oh, okay then". I've certainly been guilty of this in the past. How do we know we can trust these 'returns' or 'congress'? If we can, why all the secrecy? Why all the mess? Why all the corruption and scandal?
What sources for and against have you read that stood out for you? I'm genuinely interested because I really want to learn as much as I can. if you could link me to a few bits, that would be great.
I asked for more information on it because you mentioned it in your post. I thought there was more to the story. My mistake.Well let's see, it was nearly 10 years ago, there were about 200 people in the lecture and I didn't get everyone's name, but it was Durham Uni Business School.
Do you think the protesters should question the interest of the anti water charge leaders? Why?Also, I'm not against or angry at the protesters - I think the priorities are screwed up and they are letting themselves be manipulated. Why not turn some of that skepticism on the leaders of the water protest......
As a protester, i'd like to know how I am being manipulated. Can you be more specific? And how are our priorities screwed up? I ask because I think the movement could do with some tweaking and i'm trying to figure out a way to make it better.
This is the first time in a long time that people have united against a particular agenda. If this movement works, then the people will have faith in themselves once more and think 'what's next to solve'. They'll feel confident that they have the means to change it. But it starts from a single step. And from that step, we generate a feeling of power. And then we can solve more. And we most certainly will......if those leaders were truly interested in social justice, they'd tell people "don't pay, now let's go help some people....."
I think it's definitely an issue of accountability but I also think it's to do with the structure itself. Can you deny that the current structure really benefits a select few only? In my opinion, that is not a non-problematic structure.And you miss the point on the LHGs - the organisational structure is not the problem, it's the lack of accountability. Maybe if people were interested in resolving the problems with the health services, they'd understand the extent of the accountability deficit therein0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »no, no you misunderstand me..I dont think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy..just because some things ARE. I know it was marketing and i know the age of interruption marketing is over and I know on mobile digital devices the marketers are at their wits end because NOTHING works...
But no, it is still easier to do business if you are wealthy in the first place. That is why there has been a verifiably HUGE transfer of wealth from the middle and lower classes to the richest people on earth since the bank collapse in 2008
And...i do not want to live on Mars. I like it here
Who do you think owns Mac Donalds? Some guy in a tower laughing manically while fondling his McNuggets?
The big joke is that there's a good chance your pension (as opposed to that ****ty state one socialism would give you) is tacked onto big corporate stocks like Apple, Exxon but hopefully not Tesco.
If you want you can buy a little bit of MacDonalds tomorrow instead of buying a Big Mac, and every year you'll get a dividend and maybe you can sell your shares for more than you bought them for. You'll even get to vote on how the company is run. It's mad actually. Corporations are little money orientated democracies where everyone votes in their own self interests.
People get rich by making themselves rich or coming from a wealthy family. To begrudge either might make us feel better about ourselves but it isn't going to do any good.
There was no "transfer of wealth" to the 1%. People panicked, sold their assets to "get out". Some people from individuals right up to corporation went around buying all these assets whether they be houses in Dublin or Junk Bonds knowing that in five years a rebound would come. And here we are.
As for digital marketing - funnily enough the only marketing tactics which seem to work are genuine attempts to engage, create and sell. Corporations haven't a clue how to operate online (bar a few) and KickStarters have propelled technology like the Oculus Rift and 3D printing into our homes. Crowdfunding is like the origins of debt markets (1920s) playing out on the internet in an oh-so capitalistic way that allows the average person to buy in or make something themselves (and if they're smart, they'll incorporate). It's a drop in the ocean but in five years it wont be.0 -
And you miss the point on the LHGs - the organisational structure is not the problem, it's the lack of accountability. Maybe if people were interested in resolving the problems with the health services, they'd understand the extent of the accountability deficit therein
You are looking at a system on a lower level than which it truly operates. So basing your opinions from there will never solve the actual issues. I am not saying that I am sitting on top of the HSE however why do we have a Health Service?
We need one as a nation to look after the sick and injured. How do we do that? We need a building so sick people can come and meet with other people who have expertise in the medical arena. Who pays those nurses and doctors? The people of the country do through a taxation system. Great. Who pays for the medicine that the sick people need? The people of the country do through a taxation system. Who makes the medicine? Medicine companies do. How do they make the medicine? using forward thinking and technology ? Who does the forward thinking and creates the technology? Scientists and other professionals in that arena do, How does that technology and medicine get to my local hospital?
Your local hospital buy from pharmaceutical companies that patent their technology and sell it to hospitals to treat sick people. But a lot of this medicine is not working and has scary side effects why? Because once a patent is involved nobody can infringe on that medicine, so no body can make and develop a better cure otherwise they will get sued.
Has cancer been cured? yes many times over, but it is in the interest of the pharmaceutical industry to not market such technology as it would dissolve the money generated on the current market that continues to pay the wages of the industry.
That is reality.0 -
-
-
So why is the model in such a mess?
Who do congress report to? Who are congress?
What institution? Where do they file their returns to?
I'm not trying to be pedantic or square up to you or anything. I'm asking these questions to see if anyone actually knows the answers to these questions. It seems to me that we hear the word 'congress' or 'returns' and we go "oh, okay then". I've certainly been guilty of this in the past. How do we know we can trust these 'returns' or 'congress'? If we can, why all the secrecy? Why all the mess? Why all the corruption and scandal?
Seriously? You've never heard of the US Congress.......What sources for and against have you read that stood out for you? I'm genuinely interested because I really want to learn as much as I can. if you could link me to a few bits, that would be great.
Again, seriously? Google, Google Scholar and JSTOR are your friend.......I asked for more information on it because you mentioned it in your post. I thought there was more to the story. My mistake.
Do you think the protesters should question the interest of the anti water charge leaders? Why?
because as citizens we are always honour-bound to question our leaders, especially the ones who appoint themselves to that position....As a protester, i'd like to know how I am being manipulated. Can you be more specific? And how are our priorities screwed up? I ask because I think the movement could do with some tweaking and i'm trying to figure out a way to make it better.
Once again, seriously.......take a trip to your local A&E tonight and see what you can see on the way there and back and then see if you agree that popular opinion and those leading the water protests have their priorities right.......and that's before you even get to the grossly unfair and regressive USC.......This is the first time in a long time that people have united against a particular agenda. If this movement works, then the people will have faith in themselves once more and think 'what's next to solve'. They'll feel confident that they have the means to change it. But it starts from a single step. And from that step, we generate a feeling of power. And then we can solve more. And we most certainly will.
I think it's definitely an issue of accountability but I also think it's to do with the structure itself. Can you deny that the current structure really benefits a select few only? In my opinion, that is not a non-problematic structure.
Except they won't - 2011 was the highwater mark of Irish democracy.
It's like the PAYE marches of the 1980s, which I participated in, during the era of 'fiscal rectitude' - Irish people will protest when it hurts financially, but they won't for their fellow citizens in the same numbers.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
post up some of those links and we'll have a laugh read......
Wait what do you believe the conspiracy is exactly?
Im so dumbfounded by your lack of knowledge im assuming its going to be way off the mark.
in your head what is the conspiracy is it that uncle denis is an alien or controller of the NWO??0 -
-
Agreed.Well to be honest I don't read d'Indo - because it's become a comic.........Newstalk is tabloid radio......and Today FM don't really do objective news......
Well, I was asking for specific info that helped you form your belief. I'm doing that so that I can understand your opinion better. I wouldn't climb into the attic either. I just thought you might have some interesting articles for me to read.Well I did point to Google Scholar and JSTOR - but if you want me to dig out my stuff from uni, well sorry - I'm not climbing into the attic to dig out that stuff.But if you want a source for the Fed - Meltzer's "A History of the Federal Reserve" would be a good start.......
That's more like it. Thanks, i'll have a read of that now. 0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Wait what do you believe the conspiracy is exactly?
That O'Brien is something more than a mediocre businessman who has done well out his political contacts.
People seem to think he's a cross between Rupert Murdoch, Roman Abramovich & Ernst Stavro Blofeld!!Im so dumbfounded by your lack of knowledge im assuming its going to be way off the mark.
in your head what is the conspiracy is it that uncle denis is an alien or controller of the NWO??
Well enlighten us - post up the info that shows he's the bogeyman everyone seems to think he is.0 -
-
Where are you running with this?
Who are congress? Effectively, they're the US version of the Oireachtas. I'm sure you could find a list of names fairly handy online...
My point was made a few posts back. But to reiterate - when we hear words like 'congress', 'senate', 'federal reserve', 'bondholders' - very few of us do our research to see who is behind those things.
Only from seeing who makes up 'congress' or the 'senate', can we really ascertain their motives. But we don't do this.
The word 'congress', sounds very 'official' and 'proper' so we don't question them. I'd wager that very very few people know who these people are, their histories, where they have shareholdings, what boards they sit on, and so on.
It is a problem in this country too. You listen to any politician being interviewed on radio for instance and he/she will say things like - 'restructuring' and 'adjustments' and then they'll say a load of figures with percentage signs. What the f*ck does any of it actually mean? The language is deliberately vague, to make us feel like we're not actually intelligent enough to understand it. And so, we'd better leave the lads in the Dáil to make all the hard decisions. They know all about the figures, unlike us.
The system is apparently all about democracy and we can do what we like etc etc. But that's not true is it. Big business and conglomerates are in control of our food supply, our water, our housing and so on. It may happen more in some countries than others at the moment. But eventually it will be a norm in most countries.
For instance. I used to buy my vitamins in cuddly ol' Holland and Barrett. You know, the shop that sells you vitamins so that you're healthier, yeah? Well, I did a bit of research and discovered that Holland and Barrett are now owned by the Carlyle Group. The Carlyle Group are a private equity asset management firm in the US with an estimated revenue of 35.622 billion dollars in 2013.
Do you not find it scary that a massive financial conglomerate owns the biggest health store chain in the world?
And this is the problem. We get blindsided by words that sound official and we stop questioning. We don't take the time to study who controls what. And it's our ignorance that's ultimately destroying us.
Any counter argument that deviates whatsoever from mainstream media's information is dismissed as a conspiracy theory.
So where do we go from here?0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
The Corporation is the creation of people, though government via legislation.
Just as I said.There's no big conspiracy. If we got rid of corporation every limited company in this country with debt would become the debt of investors - ordinary people whose pensions are derived from stocks or direct investors.
Who said there was a conspiracy? Who is asking that we get rid of corporations? You're building your own strawman and then setting fire to it.I've answered your post re technological development
No you didn't. You came back with a weak rebuttal that because the government money was used by 'private' companies any technological development wasn't attributable to the use of public money. You completely ignored that public Universities funded by public money are responsible for enormous advances.and you came back at me with some hilarious half truth that "the government make corporation".
No it's an indisputable fact that Corporations are creations of governments. Drop the conspiracy stuff - nobody is saying that it's a conspiracy.0
Advertisement