Denis O'Brien Irelands Sinister Fringe.

RobertKK

Highflyer13 wrote: »

There is so much wrong with IW its ridiculous. Sure we will just lie down and say nothing and continue being good sheep. These protests are not a waste of time as evidenced by some serious backtracking.

I agree with your point on making things happen for yourself as I strive to do however some of the facts about Denis O'Brien and metering cannot be ignored. Its suspicious when the Government are refusing to answer simple questions that the Irish people are demanding answers to and are shutting down debate. Denis hasn't the cleanest record when it comes to obtaining contracts.

If we want a better Ireland these questions must be answered clearly.

Are the meters going to be removed?

Pocoyo

Jawgap wrote: »

It's funny, earlier this week the OECD published a report noting that income inequality in Ireland was narrower in Ireland compared to the rest of the bloc - unsurprisingly it got practically zero coverage here because it plays against the narrative......

The report worth reading was the governments smoke and mirrors regarding the 2015 budget and how it hit the lower and working class hardest thus increasing the equality gap. How do you believe ireland can repay the debt and grow family incomes and expand the public services to the level they need to be at?

Highflyer13

RobertKK wrote: »

Are the meters going to be removed?

Not for now and works will continue. Although there is the water meter fairy in Mullingar offering his removal services for free. :-)

RobertKK

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Not for now and works will continue. Although there is the water meter fairy in Mullingar offering his removal services for free. :-)

Who owns the water meter, the household or Irish Water?
If IW then a criminal offense is being committed.

Highflyer13

RobertKK wrote: »

Who owns the water meter, the household or Irish Water? IW then a criminal offense is being committed.

Where are you going with this questioning? Your ignoring the substance from my original post which was regarding contracts obtained by Denis O'Brien and a shutdown of questioning in the Dail.

Obviously a criminal offence is being committed. If that wasn't the case everybody would be doing it. Thats only one person.

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

The report worth reading was the governments smoke and mirrors regarding the 2015 budget and how it hit the lower and working class hardest thus increasing the equality gap. How do you believe ireland can repay the debt and grow family incomes and expand the public services to the level they need to be at?

I love it.....when it comes time to bash the PS, OECD data is Gospel!!!

When it shows something else that runs counter to what we're told we should be angry against it's useless!

Pocoyo

Irish Water came out this morning with the unbelievable excuse that Denis O'Brien's companies, Sierra GMC / GMC Sierra were separate companies who were doing a joint venture to win the metering contract... They think we are fools!!

1. On 26th July 2013, Irish Water announced the appointment of GMC/Sierra Ltd – Sierra GMC Ltd as one of the regional contractors engaged by Irish Water to manage the Meter Installation Programme but according to information supplied by the CRO it states that the company was only registered on the 11th of July 2013 which was just 15 days prior to the announcement that your company were awarded the contract.

- Minister Kelly,can you please state how this came to be the case as I am sure that GMC/Sierra would have to had tendered for the contract and furnished a tax clearance certificate, insurance documents etc months prior to the date that the company was incorporated. To tender for an EU contract takes months not two weeks, so can the minister for the Environment, Alan Kelly explain that anomaly?

2 .Where under EU tender rules does it allow two companies that didn't exist at the time of the contract to be counted in one tender document and how did two of Denis O'Brien's companies acquire the necessary documents to be allowed to amalgamate POST tender? Who in the EU or Minister Hogan's /Kelly's office said that this was OK to do without referring the case back to Europe?

(a) There must be individual original documents for both companies and two sets of every tender document and if this is the case which company won the contract and for how much and then why did they amalgamate if they were essentially the same company and for what competitive advantage?

(b) Why did the EU not object to this method of tendering when it goes against their own rules if Minister Kelly believes that there was a joint tender between GMC Sierra and Sierra GMC (Who according to CRO records are still two completely separate legal entities with no accounting or financial crossover regarding the joint tender). How can this be explained?

(c) I fail to understand how these two companies were included in a tender process that required a turnover of at least one million Euro, when these companies were either not trading due to the fact that they (a) Didn't exist and (B) Were in debt and receivership at the same time. So which is it to be, Minister Kelly / Irish Water because neither answer will get you out of the hole you have dug?

3. Where did these companies get the tax clearance considering they were in receivership and under the care of IBRC because they owed millions of Euro to the Irish Taxpayer? How can that be explained away? You CANNOT obtain a tax clearance cert for the following reason:
(a) You owe the taxman money
(b) Your company is in liquidation or receivership
(c) The directors are not tax compliant

- No company or individual can avail of the tax clearance certificate and that applied to GMC Sierra / Sierra GMC and Siteserv... So who won the contract when none of these companies were eligible?

3. Can you also explain how GMC/Sierra managed to lodge the required documents for incorporation and attained said incorporation on the same day when 99.99% of companies have to wait weeks to be allowed to start to trade?

- Was there any ministerial pressure put on the CRO to facilitate GMC/Sierra’s rushed incorporation to your knowledge? Why are Irish Water, Sierra GMC / GMC Sierra, refusing to show the original tender documents citing "commercial sensitivity" everytime?

4. Why are GMC/Sierra –Sierra GMC using several different addresses for the same building? According to the CRO, these companies have three different registered addresses but the actual building is the same building for all three addresses. Once again Minister Kelly, can you explain the anomaly here?

5. What was the total value of the awarded contracts and will you let a team of forensic accountants and a legal specialist in EU tenders see the original documents that were used for the tendering process so as that we know what company actually won, considering none of the companies that supposedly won were legally entitled to even tender, never mind win the metering contract?

When you lie on behalf of someone you need to make sure that the people you are lying too, aren't smarter than you, Minister Kelly... Your call!!

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

Irish Water came out this morning with the unbelievable excuse that Denis O'Brien's companies, Sierra GMC / GMC Sierra were separate companies who were doing a joint venture to win the metering contract... They think we are fools!!

........

Linky?

Pocoyo

Jawgap wrote: »

Linky?

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Firish-news%2Fpolitics%2Firish-water-bill-facing-defeat-in-seanad-revolt-30834158.html&ei=G5KNVOXrLrLZ7QbtoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHE5dd6mXdwXXQVCrsQcvDGf2tQwQ&sig2=ekTvXsnDpoHMR545IrTkYg&bvm=bv.81828268,d.ZGU

Heres another link you may be interested in.

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

Irish Water came out this morning with the unbelievable excuse that Denis O'Brien's companies.....etc

If you are going to quote "Cork says NO to water meters" - maybe have the good grace to acknowledge them as the source......

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cork-says-NO-to-water-meters/877682312257358

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Firish-news%2Fpolitics%2Firish-water-bill-facing-defeat-in-seanad-revolt-30834158.html&ei=G5KNVOXrLrLZ7QbtoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHE5dd6mXdwXXQVCrsQcvDGf2tQwQ&sig2=ekTvXsnDpoHMR545IrTkYg&bvm=bv.81828268,d.ZGU

Heres another link you may be interested in.

Good, that's the way a republic is supposed to work

Pocoyo

Jawgap wrote: »

If you are going to quote "Cork says NO to water meters" - maybe have the good grace to acknowledge them as the source......

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cork-says-NO-to-water-meters/877682312257358

Seanad says no.

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

Seanad says no.

So post #278 didn't come from Cork says NO to water meters? Even though it's word for word the same?

Why are you trying to pass his work off as your own?

Jawgap

Pocoyo wrote: »

Seanad says no.

Again, good. That's way things are supposed to work in parliamentary democracy. I have no great love of IW - as I've explained, the model (both business and charging) is deeply flawed.

I hope enough of our TDs and Senators come to realise that and put in place a better and fairer system - I doubt they will, but you can only hope.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

RobertKK wrote: »

Some people are more concerned with other people and what they do, own or say, rather than doing anything themselves and making things happen for themselves.

I don't care either way about Denis O'Brien. Some people see wealth and think there is something wrong with it, because maybe that person puts it upon themselves to feel an injustice because they are poorer than that person.
I believe you have to make things happen for yourself and not concern oneself with people one has no influence over, in this case Denis O'Brien.
A lot of water protesters are simply wasting time and mental energy getting worked up over who got the meter contract and maybe the methods involved.
It is not going to make one iota of difference. Same when it comes to his media interests, which you don't have to avail of if you don't want to in the case of the media.

Nonsense. And this isn't even a libertarian argument since all of O'Brien's wealth is based on crony capitalism. Of course it affects us, of course it matters. It's not about "seeing wealth" and disliking it, plenty of people who dislike O'Brien like O'Leary.

Crony capitalist states are a disaster. From Russia to Italy, to Zimbabwee and in between.

Zebra3

I hope the Indo goes bust.

lufties

Zebra3 wrote: »

I hope the Indo goes bust.

its a pile of cack, a tabloid masquerading as a broadsheet

Jawgap

Zebra3 wrote: »

I hope the Indo goes bust.

Well, it's a crap newspaper but even though it's become a parody of what it was, I wouldn't wish it to go bust because that means people - real people - losing their jobs.

Autonomous Cowherd

It was a lark today though that front page headline online was Big Freeze Mad Maddens weather forecast as opposed to the IW march....I confess I larfed :P

WinnyThePoo

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

It was a lark today though that front page headline online was Big Freeze Mad Maddens weather forecast as opposed to the IW march....I confess I larfed :P

Wasn't the protest on Wednesday?.

Autonomous Cowherd

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Wasn't the protest on Wednesday?.

uh yeah...but a sunday paper usually goes for the bigger stories of the week...not james Maddens mad freeze forecast

Nodin

Jawgap wrote: »

Well, it's a crap newspaper but even though it's become a parody of what it was, I wouldn't wish it to go bust because that means people - real people - losing their jobs.

Sure now?
https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.251654994880021.60172.126266120752243/812410485471133/?type=1&theater

Jawgap

Nodin wrote: »

Sure now?
https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.251654994880021.60172.126266120752243/812410485471133/?type=1&theater

You think that's the totality of the people working for INM........well done:rolleyes:

Yes, they have their Hunter Thompson wannabes but I'm betting for everyone of those there's 10 regular people working there - are people really wishing the place would close, and people lose their jobs just give DO'B a kick in the arse?

I somehow doubt if that happens you'll be seeing him down the social welfare office.

Nodin

Jawgap wrote: »

You think that's the totality of the people working for INM........well done:rolleyes:

Yes, they have their Hunter Thompson wannabes but I'm betting for everyone of those there's 10 regular people working there - are people really wishing the place would close, and people lose their jobs just give DO'B a kick in the arse?

I somehow doubt if that happens you'll be seeing him down the social welfare office.

They do? Where the jaysus have they been hidin them?

Jawgap

Nodin wrote: »

They do? Where the jaysus have they been hidin them?

Well there's Barry Egan and that weapon who wrote about Irish women's rugby.

Tbh, I don't read it, and having looked at the link you posted I really don't feel like I'm missing out. I occasionally skim it in work, but I wouldn't buy it to wipe the cat's arse.

And as I said, it's not nice losing your job, but if you'd like to see the place close and people turfed out of their jobs just because of who is running the shop, then that's your right - I'm not sure it's a terribly charitable attitude to have.

Nodin

Jawgap wrote: »

Well there's Barry Egan and that weapon who wrote about Irish women's rugby.
............

If that's trying to be Hunter S., they've not only failed to take off, they went on fire in the hangar.

Jawgap

Nodin wrote: »

If that's trying to be Hunter S., they've not only failed to take off, they went on fire in the hangar.

Hence me describing them as 'wannabes'......which according to the Urban Dictionary......

Wannabe
Poser, follower, a charlatan of sorts. One who copies or immitates all or most of the aspects dealing with their idol. They may wish to have certain clothing, skills, vocabulary, etc., of their idols instead of their own. Most likely a wannabe is lacking in self confidence and is looking for guidance.

Muahahaha

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

Nonsense. And this isn't even a libertarian argument since all of O'Brien's wealth is based on crony capitalism. Of course it affects us, of course it matters. It's not about "seeing wealth" and disliking it, plenty of people who dislike O'Brien like O'Leary.

Crony capitalist states are a disaster. From Russia to Italy, to Zimbabwee and in between.

I'm in that grouping. Though I'm not O'Learys biggest fan because of his modus operandi I have enormous respect for him for bucking the trend of the mega rich in Ireland and staying here and paying his taxes here. I've no such respect for O'Brien or any of our other tax exiles and personally I believe we need legislation to reign them in. In that hotbed of capitalism the USA the Inland Revenue Service can tax US citizens on their worldwide income. So if the US are taxing their mega rich then I don't see why we're not to be honest.

But so long as Fine Gael are in power people like Denis O'Brien will get off scott free. It is pretty obvious to anyone with a brain at this stage is that the quid pro quo for Fine Gael is favourable coverage in the Indo, Newstalk, Herald, Today FM, etc. Eamon Dunphy resigned from Today FM because an order had come from above that during the recession there were to create "happy clappy radio" and pretend that everything was a-okay.

O'Brien is seeking to influence politics here whilst not even living here or paying taxes. I say piss on the pot or get off it, he shouldn't be allowed to have his cake and eat it. Only getting Fine Gael out of power will help to change that, I think Sinn Fein have policies targetting tax exiles which goes a long way to explaining why O'Briens media is constantly attacking them, he must be scared sh1tless of Sinn Fein in government and his media organisation will likely go to extraordinary measures to try to stop it happening.

yipeeeee

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm in that grouping. Though I'm not O'Learys biggest fan because of his modus operandi I have enormous respect for him for bucking the trend of the mega rich in Ireland and staying here and paying his taxes here. I've no such respect for O'Brien or any of our other tax exiles and personally I believe we need legislation to reign them in. In that hotbed of capitalism the USA the Inland Revenue Service can tax US citizens on their worldwide income. So if the US are taxing their mega rich then I don't see why we're not to be honest.

But so long as Fine Gael are in power people like Denis O'Brien will get off scott free. It is pretty obvious to anyone with a brain at this stage is that the quid pro quo for Fine Gael is favourable coverage in the Indo, Newstalk, Herald, Today FM, etc. Eamon Dunphy resigned from Today FM because an order had come from above that during the recession there were to create "happy clappy radio" and pretend that everything was a-okay.

O'Brien is seeking to influence politics here whilst not even living here or paying taxes. I say piss on the pot or get off it, he shouldn't be allowed to have his cake and eat it. Only getting Fine Gael out of power will help to change that, I think Sinn Fein have policies targetting tax exiles which goes a long way to explaining why O'Briens media is constantly attacking them, he must be scared sh1tless of Sinn Fein in government and his media organisation will likely go to extraordinary measures to try to stop it happening.

How come Obama was giving out about Apples affairs in Ireland?

Didn't he say they are avoiding paying huge taxes back home.

Tinkersbell

yipeeeee wrote: »

How come Obama was giving out about Apples affairs in Ireland?

Didn't he say they are avoiding paying huge taxes back home.

Apple are here because successive FFail/FG/Labour governments have cemented our standing in the world as a tax haven for MNC's.