What is middle class?

everdead.ie

I'm just wondering about what peoples thoughts are on this, following on from the education thread I find it difficult to actually identify myself in any class.

It's also rather unfashionable to be middle class these days it seems people are either working class or ruling class with no one identifying with the one in the middle?

Anyway what do you think makes someone middle class?
Education, earning ability, job security, accent, your social network?

darkpagandeath

No real class's anymore You either have money or you don't. Rich Americans think they are better than everyone else Regardless of upbringing schooling.

Arthur Beesley

We're the ones that pay most of the income tax.

Have never understood why anyone would aspire to be working class.

hjkl

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No real class's anymore You either have money or you don't. Rich Americans think they are better than everyone else Regardless of upbringing schooling.

But this isn't America, this is Ireland.

darkpagandeath

frimpong wrote: »

But this isn't America, this is Ireland.

We are very American here, You just have to have money to think your better than anyone else and do what you want.

Shakespeare's Sister

At a superficial level:

Not rich but comfortable - not struggling. Educated to third level. Homeowner.

briany

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

We're the ones that pay most of the income tax.

Have never understood why anyone would aspire to be working class.

The term 'working class' has slowly come to mean a whole class of people, a good proportion of whom exist on state benefits.

Donkey Oaty

everdead.ie wrote: »

Anyway what do you think makes someone middle class?
Education, earning ability, job security, accent, your social network?

Pine nuts and sun-dried tomatoes in a salad.

V-neck sweater draped around the shoulders.

Tennis/squash/golf club membership.

A Brown Thomas loyalty card.

A slight feeling of belonging when one's letter is published in The Irish Times.

wazky

I never understood the term working class, it is usually used to describe people who are not working?

Agricola

Middle class - handy number, plenty of perks, status.

Working class - losing the will to live everyday and/or breaking your back.

Hotfail.com

Magaggie wrote: »

At a superficial level:

Not rich but comfortable - not struggling. Educated to third level. Homeowner.

I'd agree with this.

I was thinking middle class = having professional jobs, whilst working class = unskilled jobs, in general of course, but I think you summed it up better.

Arthur Beesley

Agricola wrote: »

Middle class - handy number, plenty of perks, status.

Working class - losing the will to live everyday and/or breaking your back.

Breaking your back on the dole while receiving rent allowance...

Usually used to describe people educated to 3rd level+ who hold professional qualifications, are usually home owners, belong to an easily identifiable group sharing the same accent and manners, are culturally aware, and have reasonable amounts of disposable income.

The definition changes from place to place and from time to time, but the above generally holds true in the West.

Working class is often used to describe a growing underclass, and as such is a misnomer.

Arthur Beesley

Hotfail.com wrote: »

I'd agree with this.

I was thinking middle class = having professional jobs, whilst working class = unskilled jobs, in general of course, but I think you summed it up better.

You don't think there is anything in the middle?

What is a software developer?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Magaggie wrote: »

At a superficial level:

Not rich but comfortable - not struggling. Educated to third level. Homeowner.

This sums it up pretty well, although of course in Ireland at least many mc families are struggling.

The government relies heavily on them because of their tax and the fact that many are not entitled to things like medical cards etc. When it comes to down it some are probably worse off than working class families in the current climate.

darkpagandeath

Hotfail.com wrote: »

I'd agree with this.

I was thinking middle class = having professional jobs, whilst working class = unskilled jobs, in general of course, but I think you summed it up better.

Nah, It's changed now. Middle class now is having money. Working class now is anyone below middle class. from People on the dole to working in Tesco or similar. Odd that people working in the Civil service would usually think of themselves as middle class.

Donkey Oaty

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

What is a software developer?

Nerds/dorks/geeks have their own special classification, and as such, deserve their own thread, which will be incomprehensible to most of us normal people.

Arthur Beesley

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Nerds/dorks/geeks have their own special classification, and as such, deserve their own thread, which will be incomprehensible to most of us normal people.

And for us software developers that are not Nerds/dorks/geeks...

darkpagandeath

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

You don't think there is anything in the middle?

What is a software developer?

If they wear a fedora, A hipster :pac:

Donkey Oaty

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

And for us software developers that are not Nerds/dorks/geeks...

You're in denial - embrace your geekiness with pride!

Hotfail.com

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

You don't think there is anything in the middle?

What is a software developer?

Is that not a professional job?

I'd have considered a professional job anything that involved having a third level degree, or anything administrative. I suppose the lack of manual labour would also be a characteristic of a professional job.

Arthur Beesley

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nah, It's changed now. Middle class now is having money. Working class now is anyone below middle class. from People on the dole to working in Tesco or similar. Odd that people working in the Civil service would usually think of themselves as middle class.

How is that odd? Given that it seems to meet your definition. Despite their protests, most civil servants are well paid.

Plus 'having money' is pretty ambiguous. Does having €50 count as having money?

Trebor176

I know it's going back to the sixties, but I'm reminded of this Monty Python sketch:

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I don't think anyone is really referred to as upper or lower class now.

fleet_admiral

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If they wear a fedora, A Weirdo:pac:

fyp

Brian?

The term middle class means nothing anymore. Middle class used to be associated with professional land owners. But there are plenty of working clas people who own homes.

The distinction between middle and working class has become so blurred it may as well be dismissed. The problem is a stigma now exists about being "working class", a stigma fueled by snobbery. It gets even more ridiculous when I hear people refer to lower and upper middle class.

The sooner we dismiss the idea of class the better.

ian87

In one of my 1st lectures in college the lecturer proclaimed "it doesn't matter what your parents do or didn't do for a living, where you came from, you all now have one thing in common. You are now middle class." I found it so odd at the time and it still perplexes me to this day why he felt the need to tell us that.

Donkey Oaty

Trebor176 wrote: »

I know it's going back to the sixties, but I'm reminded of this Monty Python sketch:

Link didn't work for me, but if it's the "I look up to him and down on him" one, then it's actually from "The Frost Report".

My God...maybe I'm a bit of a geek myself!

Hotfail.com

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Is that not a professional job?

I'd have considered a professional job anything that involved having a third level degree, or anything administrative. I suppose the lack of manual labour would also be a characteristic of a professional job.

You can divide middle class into lower middle class, middle and upper middle class.

Guards and skilled non-professionals, nurses, teachers etc. would be (at least) lower middle class. Right in the middle would be barristers, architects, highly specialised scientists etc, and upper middle is what Irish people generally regard as upper class - highly successful businesspeople, barristers, consultants in private practice etc.

Upper class generally refers to people of independent means who are multi generationally very wealthy, royalty and the hereditarily titled, who may or may not be rich.

Hotfail.com

ian87 wrote: »

In one of my 1st lectures in college the lecturer proclaimed "it doesn't matter what your parents do or didn't do for a living, where you came from, you all now have one thing in common. You are now middle class." I found it so odd at the time and it still perplexes me to this day why he felt the need to tell us that.

That would have pissed me off no end.

Shakespeare's Sister

ian87 wrote: »

In one of my 1st lectures in college the lecturer proclaimed "it doesn't matter what your parents do or didn't do for a living, where you came from, you all now have one thing in common. You are now middle class." I found it so odd at the time and it still perplexes me to this day why he felt the need to tell us that.

Similar thing was said by a lecturer to us in college too. It annoyed those who are working class. I can understand their annoyance too - being in college doesn't suddenly wipe out your background.

Trebor176

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Link didn't work for me, but if it's the "I look up to him and down on him" one, then it's actually from "The Frost Report".

My God...maybe I'm a bit of a geek myself!

It didn't work for me when I checked back, but I've rectified it, so it should work And yes, you're right about the sketch