What is middle class?

lufties

Candie wrote: »

You can divide middle class into lower middle class, middle and upper middle class.

Guards and skilled non-professionals, nurses, teachers etc. would be (at least) lower middle class. Right in the middle would be barristers, architects, highly specialised scientists etc, and upper middle is what Irish people generally regard as upper class - highly successful businesspeople, barristers, consultants in private practice etc.

Upper class generally refers to people of independent means who are multi generationally very wealthy, royalty and the hereditarily titled, who may or may not be rich.

I'm an Engineer on 50k a year, what would I be?

Tarzana

Trebor176 wrote: »

There are people in less affluent areas, who can be among the nicest of all people, will have decent jobs, and even a third level education. It makes no difference. I don't have time for blatant sobbery,

The sentence before the bolded one is a tad snobby. EVEN a third level education? Nice? Imagine that! :pac:

steamengine

Tarzana wrote: »

What about skilled, non-professional jobs?

Indeed, maybe that's borne out by the old song often heard in factories or the nearby pub when a worker was promoted to foreman/woman.

'The working class can kiss my ass, I've got the foreman's job at last' - sung to the tune of the red flag :-)

lulu1

Upper class Here's me and there's nobody like me, fancy car good job. class house I would think middle and working are much the same but how would you define lower class

Czarcasm

lufties wrote: »

I'm an Engineer on 50k a year, what would I be?

It's impossible to judge like that at an individual level. Dolores McNamara is worth €115m after an overnight euro millions lottery win. Did she suddenly transcend into upper class because she is wealthy enough never to have to work a day in her life again?

No, no she didn't, nor will she ever.

newmug

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's impossible to judge like that at an individual level. Dolores McNamara is worth €115m after an overnight euro millions lottery win. Did she suddenly transcend into upper class because she is wealthy enough never to have to work a day in her life again?

No, no she didn't, nor will she ever.

There's different types of classes. If you're talking about economic class types (which seems to be the main theme of the thread), then yes, she did.


If you're talking about Victorian-English snobbery type classes, then no, she's a commoner. As would most of us be. I'd be a peasant myself.

dd972

Czarcasm wrote: »

No, no she didn't, nor will she ever.

Typical Czarcasm post

I'm sure she's bothered about that, if she had elocution lessons you wouldn't tell the difference.

Galwayguy35

I'd think someone who went to college and has a job that pays 30 k or over as middle class, teachers and Guards etc.

Hotfail.com

Tarzana wrote: »

What about skilled, non-professional jobs?

Hence "in general"

Iwasfrozen

lufties wrote: »

I'm an Engineer on 50k a year, what would I be?

Middle Middle class.

lufties

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Middle Middle class.

Perhaps, but I do shiftwork and get my hands dirty at work. A mate of mine is a building site foreman, on about 800 pound a week..his only qualification is a leaving cert.

jonnny68

I have a "professional job" but do not consider myself middle class a lot of the so called middle classes are plastic and fake who actually think their intelligent and smart but I've come across some right fools who have not got the brains to back up their "social status" they live in their own little bubble.

I'm from a working class area and speak with the same Dublin accent I've always had and don't feel the need to change it like some of these D4 muppets, having said that there are plenty of people I work with who would be deemed as middle class but are not plastic or fake, I suppose it depends on the individual.

Czarcasm

newmug wrote: »

There's different types of classes. If you're talking about economic class types (which seems to be the main theme of the thread), then yes, she did.


If you're talking about Victorian-English snobbery type classes, then no, she's a commoner. As would most of us be. I'd be a peasant myself.

Unfortunately for her, she rather quickly found out that money doesn't buy class. As Candie alluded to earlier, there are more factors involved even in socio-economic classes than just consideration of wealth or income on their own. It's not necessarily a Vicrorian-English "Old Money" snobbery mentality.

dd972 wrote: »

Typical Czarcasm post

I'm sure she's bothered about that, if she had elocution lessons you wouldn't tell the difference.

YOU wouldn't tell the difference. I don't have to see the chips on your shoulders to know they're there either.

newmug

Czarcasm wrote: »

Unfortunately for her, she rather quickly found out that money doesn't buy class.

Why, what happened to her?

DEFTLEFTHAND

How many generations of wealth does it take to be accepted in high society I wonder. Old money vs nouveau riche.

Czarcasm

newmug wrote: »

Why, what happened to her?

She tried rubbing shoulders with the likes of JP and Celia and they were having none of it. A quick google search will give you a better picture of how her life and that of her family has generally turned out since her win.

She was thrust into the limelight overnight and she would tell you herself that it's been swings and roundabouts since. Those who are born into money are usually better able to handle it than those that aren't, and those that have earned their money are better able to handle social mobility.

Glock Lesnar

Middle class = good guys

Lower class = bad guys who all our taxes go to because the can't support themselves

Upper class = other bad guys who don't pay any taxes and who take advantage of the middle class

Iwasfrozen

lufties wrote: »

Perhaps, but I do shiftwork and get my hands dirty at work. A mate of mine is a building site foreman, on about 800 pound a week..his only qualification is a leaving cert.

Getting your hands dirty wouldn't really make you working class. It's more to do with education primarily and social status/net worth secondarily in my view.

The line kind of blurs though when you see people like Lord Leslie who are undeniably upper class driving a ten year old Opel.

groucho marx

I think it should be renamed lidl class,your not poor enough to get help but definately couldnt afford a full shop in some other more expensive super markets.Think that covers it.

passatman86

Middle class - people that still have money left in their pocket come monday

lulu1

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Middle class = good guys

Lower class = bad guys who all our taxes go to because the can't support themselves

Upper class = other bad guys who don't pay any taxes and who take advantage of the middle class

MY friend has a serious medical condition and can no longer care for herself she receives disability allowance. Her husband has to look after her he gets carers allowance. Dont really think you would put a situation like this in with the bad guys

Stovepipe

You are middle-class when going to college is regarded as normal and not going is unthinkable, nor is funding an issue and you expect to go into a non-manual "profession" afterwards and doing a Masters is regarded as pretty normal. You wouldn't consider an apprenticeship to a manual trade but would do an internship because you automatically assume your parents will sub you. Going on a J1 or an Erasmus or getting expensive tuition in Summer is regarded as par for the course.With regard to money, the concept of not having it does not arise, ie; if you want a new phone, you just buy it. If you want to undertake a sport, that involves buying expensive kit or equipment, such as sailing, you'll do it without question, as the concept of not being able to afford to partake of any sporting activity simply does not arise. In effect, you will never have the notion of doubt about finance, transport, clothing, food, travel, education, jobs, whereas working-class people fret about being able to do any of the above and the concept of being without is real. For a working-class person, the notion of automatically going to third-level is unreal and not a given. It's all about maybe and might and how can I afford it and what do I have to give up to be able to go to college......the lines are quite blurred, these days, with regard to what would have been normal identifiers such as accent, dwelling type, address, trade or job or profession and educational level.

regards
Stovepipe

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I've been told I look very unconvincing in a tracksuit, my parents are married and have post-graduate qualifications and well paying jobs that still leave them a bit short at the end of most months, and I'm not likely to inherit any vast amounts of land or fly first-class without making a big deal out of it. I'm not entirely sure what a proper definition of middle class might be but I'm sure it's what I am.

flas

It means nothing these days, a lot of people who would consider themselves middle class are in debt up to their bollox but still have notions about themselves being middle class! I would consider middle class the likes of successful small to medium business, who have people working for them, the working class would work for said people,would have mortages on their houses, would have to save to send their kids to college and the kids would have to work to have money for their college living and education as well where as middle class peoples kids would never have to work through college and would still be able to go on j1's and stuff without having to scrimp and save for a year to have any sort of a holiday or break for themselves!

Basically working class work for a living, middle class have people working for them for a living!

Social welfare class is a different story altogether.

And anyone who gives a crap about any of it is a dik of the highest order!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Speaking properly is often an indicator of class, seen in terms for loved ones, Mammy vs Mum for eg. The MC are often ridiculed for being posh nancyboys who wear nice clothes and can't fight so that evens out the snobbery. Try growing up mc in a wc dominated school.

suicide_circus

If you want to stick to a three tier class system, you now have

Wealth Class
Drone Class
Welfare Class

Drone class includes anyone who works for a living but is not wealthy. They are the ones who keep the place ticking over and get shiit on most often.

Wealth class and wefare class are self explanatory.

FISMA

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Rich Americans think they are better than everyone else Regardless of upbringing schooling.

I have never seen the snobbery or class-ism in the States that I have in Ireland.

Most of the people I know in the States that would be considered rich are also the most humble.

The second someone gets an auld pony in Ireland they look at you like they are suddenly related to the Queen! Start speaking with a British accent too!

alleystar

I never associated working class with dole scroungers. Hint is in the name.

creolebelle

I was just thinking about the class system in Ireland. In America we have this obsession with rich. Our tv shows, magazines, media etc soely focus on them. We also have this societal belief that if your are poor in America there is something wrong with you. That poor people actually chose to be poor. Many of my family members seem to think its a sin to be poor.

Is irish society really status conscious? Is there a lot of societal pressure to become wealthy? Does a large part of irish media focus on the very rich and what they are buying?
Is there a lot of interaction between the classes in Ireland?

creolebelle

Magaggie wrote: »

Similar thing was said by a lecturer to us in college too. It annoyed those who are working class. I can understand their annoyance too - being in college doesn't suddenly wipe out your background.

In the states it does. That is if you have graduated from ivy, esp the "holy trinity": Harvard, Yale and Princeton
Both my parents are Ivy League educated so there was a lot of pressure on me to do the same