What is middle class?

lufties

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't think we really have the same sort of class system as Marx was talking about and in todays society no where has.. the world of work is changing and we have the welfare system.

I live some where that is considered very middle class and work beside somewhere that is very deprived, all you have to do is go to a supermarket in either area and you would see the difference between different section of Irish society. its a eye opener because we all usually live in a bubble of or own making.

In Ireland middle class is not about money, its more about what newspaper you read, what books you read, where you go on holiday, France instead of Spain, investing a lot in you children, Irish college, the way you dress, Living in an area where almost everyone is living the same life as you are, third level education, careers instead of a job and so on.

I don't read any newspapers really as I find them rubbish. I would holiday where I like, when I like. I live in middle class area of London, but am renting.. I am currently single with no kids, If I had a family there's no way I could afford to buy in the area I live. Guess that makes me a wannabe or someone that is not part of any class system.

mariaalice

lufties wrote: »

I don't read any newspapers really as I find them rubbish. I would holiday where I like, when I like. I live in middle class area of London, but am renting.. I am currently single with no kids, If I had a family there's no way I could afford to buy in the area I live. Guess that makes me a wannabe or someone that is not part of any class system.

Well people can only speak from their own experience, one of mine rents an apartment in a place that is trendy when she could live some where cheaper, her holiday was going to Holland to see a set by some dance music dj, I don't get it probably because I am too old to understand.

lufties

mariaalice wrote: »

Well people can only speak from their own experience, one of mine rents an apartment in a place that is trendy when she could live some where cheaper, her holiday was going to Holland to see a set by some dance music dj, I don't get it probably because I am too old to understand.

Its the same as you going to holland to see the eagles perform, or makem and clancy or whatever music you like.

My point was there is no real class system in Ireland. If you bought a place in Ranelagh or Donnybrook for a steal, it doesn't make you middle class..the same way if you read the Irish times it doesn't.

mariaalice

lufties wrote: »

Its the same as you going to holland to see the eagles perform, or makem and clancy or whatever music you like.

My point was there is no real class system in Ireland. If you bought a place in Ranelagh or Donnybrook for a steal, it doesn't make you middle class..the same way if you read the Irish times it doesn't.

I don't think there is a conventional class system in Ireland as such, however go to a supermarket in an area that considered deprived and then go to area that considered middle class and look around or look at third level education, as more entered it a degree is not enough now you have to have a masters and that costs money and who is most likely to have the money to do a masters.

Aglomerado

Tracey Ullmann pulled the píss out of 'class definitions' many years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6nyJya4mU8

mariaalice

Aglomerado wrote: »

Tracey Ullmann pulled the píss out of 'class definitions' many years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6nyJya4mU8

That's very English we are not like that at all, its much more subtle here. That why I say its not to do with money.

The_Captain

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't think there is a conventional class system in Ireland as such, however go to a supermarket in an area that considered deprived and then go to area that considered middle class and look around or look at third level education, as more entered it a degree is not enough now you have to have a masters and that costs money and who is most likely to have the money to do a masters.

The children of people who made money from property in the 90s. The vast majority of our 'middle class' are people who are only 1st or 2nd generation middle class who have benefitted from free third level, and I would include myself in that bracket.

There's not really a proper class system in Ireland the way there is in the UK, but that could change in generations to come

lufties

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't think there is a conventional class system in Ireland as such, however go to a supermarket in an area that considered deprived and then go to area that considered middle class and look around or look at third level education, as more entered it a degree is not enough now you have to have a masters and that costs money and who is most likely to have the money to do a masters.

Myself and 2 of my brothers could well afford a masters and we are from a working class family in south tipperary.

Middle class in the 80s and 90s was probably a well dressed, well educated civil servant/lawyer/architect who lives in a nice part of southside of Dublin, reads the Irish Times.

Nowadays Jedward and Niall Horan and kim kardashian probably have the means to live like royalty just about.

Maximus Alexander

everdead.ie wrote: »

What is middle class?

Having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter. [1]

Seems to sum it up reasonably well.

KungPao

lufties wrote: »

Myself and 2 of my brothers could well afford a masters and we are from a working class family in south tipperary.

Middle class in the 80s and 90s was probably a well dressed, well educated civil servant/lawyer/architect who lives in a nice part of southside of Dublin, reads the Irish Times.

Nowadays Jedward and Niall Horan and kim kardashian probably have the means to live like royalty just about.

Every time, without fail, I think of this guy when I see that name written down.

steddyeddy

The_Captain wrote: »

The children of people who made money from property in the 90s. The vast majority of our 'middle class' are people who are only 1st or 2nd generation middle class who have benefitted from free third level, and I would include myself in that bracket.

There's not really a proper class system in Ireland the way there is in the UK, but that could change in generations to come

This. Go back 5 generations and most come from farming labourer stock.

jimgoose

I think it's true enough when they say that in Ireland at least, it's all to do with the view taken of education. But not in quite the way usually presented. To wit:

Working Class: If I get a good education I'm only going to have to go and do something bloody stupid like get a job. Sod that!

Middle Class: I need a good education so I can do something bloody stupid like get a job!

Upper Class: I need a good education so I won't have to do anything bloody stupid like get a job!


:pac:

Pablodreamsofnew

I think this country is getting more like India, Just lower class and extremely rich.

Bog Standard User

in today's ireland there is a few classes

1. Welfare Class - these tend not no want to work, may be poorly educated
2. Forced Welfare Class - these tend to have lost their jobs recently, these usually try to find work asap.
3. Working Class - these tend to be well educated, work hard and get constantly screwed over by the government
4. Rich class - these tend to pay feck all taxes, have their tax affairs dealt with abroad.
5. Politician class - these tend to make up seperate rules for them so they bankrupt countries and get away with a nice big state pension

Everlong1

Candie wrote: »

You can divide middle class into lower middle class, middle and upper middle class.

Guards and skilled non-professionals, nurses, teachers etc. would be (at least) lower middle class. Right in the middle would be barristers, architects, highly specialised scientists etc, and upper middle is what Irish people generally regard as upper class - highly successful businesspeople, barristers, consultants in private practice etc.

Upper class generally refers to people of independent means who are multi generationally very wealthy, royalty and the hereditarily titled, who may or may not be rich.

Damn you for shattering my illusions! Thought I was middle class, but I'm only lower middle class (middle management civil servant). Oh well. I suppose it's better than being one of the "yeah but no but yeah" professional waster class.

WilyCoyote

In my day 'twas 3rd year

nlgbbbblth

everdead.ie wrote: »

It's also rather unfashionable to be middle class these days

My experience of the hard left in Ireland [25+ years].
Lots of well-educated but self-loathing middle class who idolise the working class.

Everlong1

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

My experience of the hard left in Ireland [25+ years].
Lots of well-educated but self-loathing middle class who idolise the working class.

Gas isn't it? Pulp's "Common People" springs to mind.

MS.ing

working class - you work for someone

middle class - people work for you, + you earn say 150,000~

upper class - large companies/money work for you

anyone who thinks otherwise has delusions (of grandeur)

because every other way of measuring is a variable, but thats the cut and thrust of it when you take away all the crap of "Im 'cultured'/CAN buy expensive things........sometimes...........on my credit card!" :rolleyes: )
people mix personality up with class or intelligence. btw having something doesnt give you class, how you behave does

Iwasfrozen

Bog Standard User wrote: »

in today's ireland there is a few classes

1. Welfare Class - these tend not no want to work, may be poorly educated
2. Forced Welfare Class - these tend to have lost their jobs recently, these usually try to find work asap.
3. Working Class - these tend to be well educated, work hard and get constantly screwed over by the government
4. Rich class - these tend to pay feck all taxes, have their tax affairs dealt with abroad.
5. Politician class - these tend to make up seperate rules for them so they bankrupt countries and get away with a nice big state pension

You've left out middle class completely there and the rich pay far more tax than any other group...

MS.ing

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You've left out middle class completely there and the rich pay far more tax than any other group...

and youve missed his point about middle class, ie most who think they are in it are not

also the rich pay proportionally more tax than any other group

ToddyDoody

Middle class... Now would that be upper or lower middle class?

Reindeer

darkpagandeath wrote: »

We are very American here, You just have to have money to think your better than anyone else and do what you want.

As an American, let me tell you - you Irish aren't very American.

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

steddyeddy

Why don't we class people according to genetic make up? It might be a more realistic judge of pedigree than how much money your family currently has?

Maximus Alexander

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why don't we class people according to genetic make up? It might be a more realistic judge of pedigree than how much money your family currently has?

They tried that. The death toll was about 85 million.

steddyeddy

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

They tried that. The death toll was about 85 million.

No that's killing people based on their genetic make up.

steddyeddy

It would also be more scientific and logical than a class system based on opinion.

Iwasfrozen

steddyeddy wrote: »

It would also be more scientific and logical than a class system based on opinion.

Class is nonsense. A person should be paid what they're worth. No more no less.

mariaalice

steddyeddy wrote: »

It would also be more scientific and logical than a class system based on opinion.

I think you might be straying towards eugenics there. I am all for a meritocracy, but that does not seem to always work, remember the bit in Animal farm...all animals are equal but some are more equal than others. In other words people will always find away around a meritocracy.

Iwasfrozen

mariaalice wrote: »

I think you might be straying towards eugenics there. I am all for a meritocracy, but that does not seem to always work, remember the bit in Animal farm...all animals are equal but some are more equal that others.

In the absence of a socialist system of economics that quote isn't nearly as scary.

It's a fact that humans are not equal in terms of intellect or ability to work hard. Nothing sinister about recognising that.