DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Finnt

My thinking behind maybe replacing recovery runs with cycling is just I can jump on the stationary bike and do an hour or so when the kids are asleep,but preferably I'd do the runs

GOOSEPAUL

Hi Guys,

After hiding in the shadows last year reading (with envy) all the novices experiences leading up to the DCM its now time to throw my name into the mix. I have been running now for a little over a year, started with the staff relay and from that the rest is history.

As a newbie I was a little unsure how to approach my runs and when it came to the Dublin Half my inexperience showed. Finished that in 1:57:59 and the last 3km I had to dig in. From this I was injured and any idea of running the DCM last year went out the window.

When I recovered I continued to do at least 1 10km over the winter period to keep up a little bit of fitness until January. When January arrived I reviewed/decided on what races/events I was going to do as preparation to fitness and hopefully the DCM 2014.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?

2013

• Dublin Half Marathon - 1:57:59

2014

• Urban Trail (8.8km) - 43:48
• Fit Phoenix Park (10km) - 46:45
• Bray Cliff Run (10km) - 48:33
• Great Ireland Run (10km) - 47:22
• Samsung Night Run (10km) - 42:56
• Arc Run (10km) - 43:55
• Dublin Staff Relay (5km) - Not run yet
• Enniscorthy Half Marathon - Not run yet
• Irish Runner (5 mile) - not run yet
• Frank Duffy (10 mile) - not run yet
• Dublin Half Marathon - not run yet

Other training runs include 2 x 10km runs during the week and one LSR 10 miles + every week

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?

No

How much training do you currently do?

I go out running every second night and I'm averaging 30+ km a week

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realisticfinishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I would just like to start and finish running. If I was to think of a dream finishing time then it would be 3:30 - 4 hours

How many days a week can you train?

4 -5 now that mummer is here and there is a night stretch in the evenings

Why are you running this marathon?

This is a bucket list one for me. my friends are always asking me about running and If I could complete a marathon it might inspire them to try it also.

So there you have it. Best of luck to everyone doing this journey, its not going to be easy but sharing our experiences will help each other and I hope to meet you at the start line in October.

Pacing Mule

See you at the FINISH line

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

A couple of weeks ago I decided to work on my speed as its an area I have never worked on and I will still have a few weeks to the start of the plan. Is this a good idea..? I do a fast 5k with 400m sprints 4/5 times over the 5k, I then have a couple of min rest and then do a slower 5/6k to keep the mileage up.

2 weeks ago I went out and did a 5K that will be my base to try an improve on.

23:48

1k 4:25
2K 4:37
3k 4:56
4K 5:00
5k 4:48

My first target is to get them all under 4:30.

Then last Firday after 3 speed sessions I knocked 19 seconds off this. Its not a lot but heading in the right direction. And not bad after only 3 sessions.

1k 4:31 (+6)
2K 4:37 ( 0 )
3k 4:52 (- 4)
4K 4:57 (-3)
5k 4:30 (-18)

I think you’re ok to do a little bit of 5k pacework at the moment (once a week) but ensure you always do a really good warm up and cool down before and after any speed sessions. I’d do a very slow mile at least either side of a speed session. Whatever plan you choose will probably have some kind of tempo or marathon paced session which might serve you better for marathon specific training once you start a plan.
You should also look at slowing down the LSR a bit too. 45 to 90 secs slower than goal marathon pace is what's usually recommended but I know it's hard to work out these paces since you haven't run a marathon so don't know your pace!
If you're running to effort (which I suggest you should), just make sure it's very very comfortable and you should be able to converse easily enough and if you're on your own you could try singing a little song like Happy Birthday every now and again and that should slow you right down if you're running too fast. Try that on the next one and see how you get on. I think running the LSRs by effort is the correct way to approach them at the moment as long as the effort is very comfortable. Read the link again on Page 1 about paces for the LSR.

donnacha

Dub13 wrote: »

I have been doing a bit of reading up on the LSR and yes they seem to be the bread and butter of training plans. The target pace for DCM14 will be 5:20 to 5:30 per KM, this LSR was about 5:40 just because I felt good and did not want to slow down. Am I wrong here...?

I would say you are. Running your LSRs at the right pace is key to you building up your aerobic capacity. Also you will find it harder to maintain the pace you are running your LSRs now once the distances increase.

I do understand the desire when you are feeling good to run at a faster pace. The best advice I can give though is to try to stick to the training paces. If you are feeling good then maybe stitch a couple of miles in at the very end of your LSR when your legs are more tired at your desired MP.

Out of interest do you know what pace you ran your LSRs in your training for your recent HM PB?

drquirky

donnacha wrote: »

I would say you are. Running your LSRs at the right pace is key to you building up your aerobic capacity. Also you will find it harder to maintain the pace you are running your LSRs now once the distances increase.

Not actually 100 percent correct there. A slow LSR is not a key to aerobic capacity its merely the way to train the body to efficiently burn glycogen. Aerobic capacity building is negated at too slow a pace. The key to building aerobic capacity is actually in consistent steady runs. That said I'd advocate a nice slow LSR as the dreaded "wall" has everything to do with glycogen depletion which being out on your feet for a while will help you to overcome.

So the short answer is yes running your LSR at 10sec slower than marathon pace is too fast!

Dub13

Cheers folks, some super advice in here I am sure this thread will be a great help to me going forward. Up to now I have not really used plans or thought about things to much, I just ran a lot and got the miles on the clock. For example for my first HM I ran the distance 2/3 times in training, the idea been you can do the distance no bother on race day worry about the time.

I know its not a great way to do things but it just worked to an extent for me, but there is no way I would have this lackluster attitude to a full marathon. That's why I am here.

donnacha wrote: »

Out of interest do you know what pace you ran your LSRs in your training for your recent HM PB?

I just checked my stats, my last LSR was ran at 5:58 (12.5 mile) but that was over the Hill of Howth which is a decent climb elevation Gain: 676 ft . My last couple of LSR before that were over the hill of Howth at the same pace, one was actually at 5:31. The idea was if you can run 10 plus miles over the hill it will be a lot easier on a relatively flat course.

adrian522

Bad run today, hopefully just a blip. Not feeling the love for running this evening.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Bad run today, hopefully just a blip. Not feeling the love for running this evening.

I'd say you were just having a bad day. We all have them every now and again. Read any of the logs and you'll hear people saying the same thing. Don't read too much into it. Just get back on the saddle road again tomorrow or the next day. No harm to take a day or two off if you're not feeling the love. You're well ahead of where you need to be at this point so better approach it with a good positive mindset in a few days than slog it out again tomorrow if you're still not feeling it.

adrian522

Ososlo wrote: »

I'd say you were just having a bad day. We all have them every now and again. Read any of the logs and you'll hear people saying the same thing. Don't read too much into it. Just get back on the saddle road again tomorrow or the next day. No harm to take a day or two off if you're not feeling the love. You're well ahead of where you need to be at this point so better approach it with a good positive mindset in a few days than slog it out again tomorrow if you're still not feeling it.

Thanks yeah, probably just need to take it easy for a day or 2...

AuldManKing

Just general comment here - not aimed at Adrian522.

A bad run every now and then can be a good thing - it reminds you to listen to your body.

Seriously - I didn't make the startline of DCM '13 due to my own stupidity - didn't listen to my body and was out for 5-6 weeks, so the biggest thing you will all hear from me over the next few months is about being sensible, watching out for warning signs and the importance of making it to the start line.

RedRunner

AuldManKing wrote: »

Just general comment here - not aimed at Adrian522.

A bad run every now and then can be a good thing - it reminds you to listen to your body.

Seriously - I didn't make the startline of DCM '13 due to my own stupidity - didn't listen to my body and was out for 5-6 weeks, so the biggest thing you will all hear from me over the next few months is about being sensible, watching out for warning signs and the importance of making it to the start line.

Here Here!

...from another who didn't make the start line due to injury

crisco10

Interesting week...

Did a few 800m intervals, aiming to maintain 3:50/km pace on Monday. It was okay, although I did the first few quicker than target, the middle 2 pretty much on target but the last 2 (and particularly the last one) were off target. To me this shows that I need to work on endurance (and pacing)!

Went to go for recovery run on Tuesday morning but bailed as had a bit of a niggle in my leg. Played tag with no pain last night so hopefully will be the end of that. Had planned a 21km tomorrow which may be put off, no need to push myself this early in the year. Especially with a 5km staff relay next week which I cant really bail on.

It's funny, almost as soon as I decide that marathon is on, I pick up a niggle. lol

rebel hoop

Hi All,
I’m going to join you on this journey. I ran a bit in the past but only getting back into it again this year. I enjoy running longer distances so I will have another crack off DCM this year.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) Yes 2009/2010
DCM 09 - 3hrs 57min
Cork Half 1hr 43min (2009)
Mallow 10 Mile 75 min (2010)
5 Mile – 34:56
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) Thankfully No
How much training do you currently do? 5 days a week currently doing 30 miles a week
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
If I can come in under 3hrs 57 min I will be delighted
How many days a week can you train? 5-6 days
Why are you running this marathon? Because thankfully for the first time in 4 years I have the health to do so

Ososlo

rebel hoop wrote: »

Hi All,
I’m going to join you on this journey. I ran a bit in the past but only getting back into it again this year. I enjoy running longer distances so I will have another crack off DCM this year.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) Yes 2009/2010
DCM 09 - 3hrs 57min
Cork Half 1hr 43min (2009)
Mallow 10 Mile 75 min (2010)
5 Mile – 34:56
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) Thankfully No
How much training do you currently do? 5 days a week currently doing 30 miles a week
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
If I can come in under 3hrs 57 min I will be delighted
How many days a week can you train? 5-6 days
Why are you running this marathon? Because thankfully for the first time in 4 years I have the health to do so

Hi there and delighted you're joining us. Nice solid base you have built up there and good to have someone else around who can share their marathon experiences.
Continued good health to you!

Vico1612

The 2014 Route is now online !
http://dublinmarathon.ie/s/SSE-AT-DM14-ROUTE-MAP.pdf

Pacing Mule

Vico1612 wrote: »

The 2014 Route is now online !
http://dublinmarathon.ie/s/SSE-AT-DM14-ROUTE-MAP.pdf

That's quite a bit different !

Edit for initial thoughts:

It's a little hillier than previous years for sure and along with the extra drag up the park the other hills / drags are now further in and on more tired legs. Roebuck hill and Clonskeagh area will more than likely claim more scalps than normal. But one over that it's a shorter distance to hang on for the finish.

neilthefunkeone

Vico1612 wrote: »

The 2014 Route is now online !
http://dublinmarathon.ie/s/SSE-AT-DM14-ROUTE-MAP.pdf

Just ran part of it there: closkeagh rd, roebuck hill, fosters av and N11 back to clonskeagh.. Good little 4 mile lunch run!

Ososlo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

That's quite a bit different !

Edit for initial thoughts:

It's a little hillier than previous years for sure and along with the extra drag up the park the other hills / drags are now further in and on more tired legs. Roebuck hill and Clonskeagh area will more than likely claim more scalps than normal. But one over that it's a shorter distance to hang on for the finish.

Which route do you prefer? This or usual one?

Vico1612

Ososlo wrote: »

Which route do you prefer? This or usual one?

Think I'll miss the Trinity college part ! It was epic last year !
But looking forward to the new challenges ahead :-)

Ososlo

Vico1612 wrote: »

Think I'll miss the Trinity college part ! It was epic last year !
But looking forward to the new challenges ahead :-)

Yeah I'd tend to agree. That last mile was fanbloomintastic! I relive it regularly.
Is that the established route from now on do you know or just for this year? Want to start planning for 2015:D

Pacing Mule

Ososlo wrote: »

Yeah I'd tend to agree. That last mile was fanbloomintastic! I relive it regularly.
Is that the established route from now on do you know or just for this year? Want to start planning for 2015:D

Not too sure about the long term but speculation is that the old route / finish is no longer viable once the cross city Luas goes in.

Ososlo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Not too sure about the long term but speculation is that the old route / finish is no longer viable once the cross city Luas goes in.

Damn shame if that's the case

PaulieC

I like the fact that the finish is closer to the top of Roebuck hill than it was. Not mad about 3 mile straight line through the park though.

adrian522

What the hell is a renault pit stop?

yaboya1

adrian522 wrote: »

What the hell is a renault pit stop?

Portaloos?

adrian522

I quite like the run down merrion road through ballsbridge as opposed to down the stillorgin dualcarriageway, or was that always the way?

LaHaine

Right ill throw my lot in here. 31 yrs old, plenty of time to run, no excuses!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

- Raced distances from marathon to 5km. Not great with remembering pbs. But roughly 22.19 for 5km, 48ish for ten k, 1.22 for ten mile, 1.47 for half marathon and 4.39 for marathon.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

- Nope, not any more luckily

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

- 4-5 days depending on the week. Not major mileage, up to 25 miles a week.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

- Dream finishing time - sub 3.30. Realistic sub 4 but I have harsh memories of my last marathon and how it kicked my ass so ill set a realistic time based on training.

How many days a week can you train?

- Can train up to 5 days. More if needed.

Why are you running this marathon?

- Have to set the wrongs of my past marathon attempt right. I was definitely in shape for close to 4hrs and i paced it horribly. Resulting in a horrible race experience towards the end.

Thinking about doing P&Ds up to 55 mile plan for my training having completed Hal Higdon novice 1 the last time.

Im not sure what kinda times that plan is aimed for though?

Ive always followed all these threads and would like to start to contribute a bit more! i have a training log a few years now. Bit sporadic at times but it shows a decent indicator of my training.

Cheers to Ososlo and all the regulars in advance for the advice and help!!

Firedance

Pacing Mule wrote: »

That's quite a bit different !

Edit for initial thoughts:

It's a little hillier than previous years for sure and along with the extra drag up the park the other hills / drags are now further in and on more tired legs. Roebuck hill and Clonskeagh area will more than likely claim more scalps than normal. But one over that it's a shorter distance to hang on for the finish.

Hillier!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: nooooooo......

thoroughly enjoyed the 200m & 400m sprint races held in the club last night - might switch to those distances and forget about this 26.2 mile milarkey

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

I quite like the run down merrion road through ballsbridge as opposed to down the stillorgin dualcarriageway, or was that always the way?

Yes, that part was always that way. You just run on the N11 between fosters Av and UCD.