DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

frash

Me again.
Thanks for the replies about the 15 miles today.

I was well hydrated before the run and am lucky enough to have two public water taps on the route so was able to drink during the run without the need to carry a drink with me .

It was more after the run that I just couldn't quench the first.
It was like my body needed something else to drink but I didn't know what.

Also without going into detail I now know I need to get some BodyGlide before my next run of that length.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

Me again.
Thanks for the replies about the 15 miles today.

I was well hydrated before the run and am lucky enough to have two public water taps on the route so was able to drink during the run without the need to carry a drink with me .

It was more after the run that I just couldn't quench the first.
It was like my body needed something else to drink but I didn't know what.

Also without going into detail I now know I need to get some BodyGlide before my next run of that length.

Maybe try a little sports drink after the run next time and see if that helps.

I understand where you're coming from with the Bodyglide. I had one horrible experience last year!
Well done again today.

slingerz

Possible first injury of the thread! Have made a mess of my back and now cannot stand up straight or walk unaided!! Had a long run planned for tomorrow but that won't happen. My participation in the cork half will also be in jeopardy I fear

Ososlo

slingerz wrote: »

Possible first injury of the thread! Have made a mess of my back and now cannot stand up straight or walk unaided!! Had a long run planned for tomorrow but that won't happen. My participation in the cork half will also be in jeopardy I fear

Really sorry to hear that. Was it brought on by running or non-running related activity? Will you, or have you seen someone about it?
If DCM is the main goal then it's better happen now than a few months into marathon training.

SeanPuddin

slingerz wrote: »

Possible first injury of the thread! Have made a mess of my back and now cannot stand up straight or walk unaided!! Had a long run planned for tomorrow but that won't happen. My participation in the cork half will also be in jeopardy I fear

In the same boat here with my leg. Sounds like you need to see a professional pronto

Firedance

slingerz wrote: »

Possible first injury of the thread! Have made a mess of my back and now cannot stand up straight or walk unaided!! Had a long run planned for tomorrow but that won't happen. My participation in the cork half will also be in jeopardy I fear

oh no slingerz that's terrible, really hope you can get it sorted and get back on track before too long

Vico1612

Hi Ososlo

Thanks for starting the thread , good to have you in charge

I'm gonna have another shot at DCM so here's my story.

Best of luck everybody ! Enjoy the journey ... It will get tough but it's well worth it.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

DCM 2013 - 4'09'46
Raheny 5 Miles - Jan 2014 - 38'32
10k (2014 )- 49 ish ...

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

No but my brain sometimes plays tricks on me , convincing me that I should stop for a cuppa and cake on my way :-)

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level

Since DCM , have been clocking around 20 miles per week with a mix of speed training , easy and medium runs and a few 10 milers.
Much fitter than I was at the start of DCM2013

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Unfinished business with DCM :-)
I made some rookie mistakes which I wont repeat this year.
( my biggest mistake was to over think everything instead of simply running the distance . Reminder : Garmin watch is a tool , it doesn't actually run the race for you)
Want to improve on 2013 time , haven't got a target in mind yet but sub 4 is the goal.

How many days a week can you train?

I looked back on the 2013 training plan and think that I over trained ( 6 days a week )
My training was 23 weeks and I clocked in 1400km ...
I never got injured but think I was tired on D Day.
This year I'm going for the Hal Higdon Inter 2 program and will include cross training [ swimming ] so 5 days running max.

Why are you running this marathon?

Many reasons :
1 - I want to experience the atmosphere again ! DCM is a fantastic event and I don't want to be a spectator , thinking ' I should be running !! ' .
2- If yer man is out again with his BBQ in Chapelizod , I might just grab a sausage on the way :-)
3- Want to improve on last year
4- LAst year, I ran it to support a friend who was battling leukemia. Sadly, she needs support again this year ...

Shoes on ! Time for a run ! :cool:

wrestlemaniac

Only started running this year but have been looking forward to this thread.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
10km- 48.07-Great Ireland '14
Half- 1.48.11 Killarney May'14

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Approx. 25 miles

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Sub 4hour

How many days a week can you train?
5

Why are you running this marathon?
As a challenge to see what I can actually achieve

JohnDozer

Gonna jump on here as someone who has been running on and off for the last three years, total for each year was about 500 miles and generally in the off season of GAA (at a low enough level) or quiet periods in the season. I had toyed with the idea of my own training log but I don't think I'm quite there yet so we'll see how this works out. I'm a long time reader and admirer of this section of boards, but only a very occasional poster. My GAA career is now over so I've committed to running more frequently and consistently this year, with the endgame being DCM 2014. Most of my PB's were set in 2012 when I was very fit from the GAA, so hope to get back to that level soon and am heading in the right direction but recent times are a good bit off two years ago. Closing in on 500 miles for the year at 25/30 miles per week and just starting to increase that. Not a club member and I have difficulty facing into speedwork on my own so I need to address this.


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Marathon - Cork 2012 4.09.59 no recent, just the one!
Half Marathon- Clonakilty 2011 1.40.xx recent GLR Half - 1.46.33
10 Mile- Castleisland 2012 1.16.40 recent Kilnaboy 10 - 1.19.20
10k - Clare 10k 45.32 (very short course) recent Tralee 10k 47.33
5k - Killarney 2012 21.02 no recent - did Raheen 6k in 27 flat

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

Nope - thankfully

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

5 days a week, maybe 6. 30 -40 miles at present. Play squash once a week. Occasional soccer games

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I just want to achieve executing a plan, learning to pace properly and get a time reflecting the effort put in by not making silly mistakes. Dream time is 3.30, realistic for DCM is 3.45 to 3.50 which I would take. I can push on then for Tralee 2015 for the 3.30.

How many days a week can you train?

6/7 preferably, prefer short easy runs to rest day!

Why are you running this marathon?

I know 4.09.59 is not the best time I can achieve, so I've a score to settle with the distance. Didn't stick to the plan for that one due to other commitments, so need to fix that..

slingerz

Ososlo wrote: »

Really sorry to hear that. Was it brought on by running or non-running related activity? Will you, or have you seen someone about it?
If DCM is the main goal then it's better happen now than a few months into marathon training.

Cheers Ososlo and the others for your well wishes.

It's a recurring problem really hurt it in the first hole golfing today in a match play comp and had to keep it going for 18 holes. Very sore still this morning.

Had seen many physios about it but doesn't seem as if they can fix it really. It could not reoccur for a few months again.

GAA brought it on, a road race has brought it in before and now golf. I think it hasn't much to do with those sports rather something I'm doing in everyday life.

Must look into some yoga and Pilates classes for myself to try and strengthen things up

RedRunner

slingerz wrote: »

Cheers Ososlo and the others for your well wishes.

It's a recurring problem really hurt it in the first hole golfing today in a match play comp and had to keep it going for 18 holes. Very sore still this morning.

Had seen many physios about it but doesn't seem as if they can fix it really. It could not reoccur for a few months again.

GAA brought it on, a road race has brought it in before and now golf. I think it hasn't much to do with those sports rather something I'm doing in everyday life.

Must look into some yoga and Pilates classes for myself to try and strengthen things up

Back problems....oh yes I know them well. I've always had issues with my back and last year had a prolapsed disc. Be very very careful with this.

Get professional medical opinion of course but here's some things that helped me last year.

1. Took a break from golf (haven't played since) as it tended to aggravate the back at that time. Funnily enough I come from GAA background too, but retired.

2. Core work, core work and more core work. I took some core classes aimed at runners and without doubt this helped immensely.

3. Got a special chair in work and this helps keep good posture when sitting at desk.(Of this depends on your employer and the type of work you do)

4.If it's not feeling 100% coming up to a scheduled race, forget the race, it can only make the situation worse and you could ended up being sidelined for weeks.

Hope you get it sorted, follow the professional advice you get, be patient, and be disciplined in your rehab and you'll be good to go again.

Firedance

Very happy with my 10k race today, 56.30 so the times really are coming down, those super tough club sessions must be paying off, great motivation to keep working hard until marathon training starts in earnest. Love the runners high!

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

Very happy with my 10k race today, 56.30 so the times really are coming down, those super tough club sessions must be paying off, great motivation to keep working hard until marathon training starts in earnest. Love the runners high!

3 min pb:D Woo hoo! Well done Firedance! Long may that high last!

slingerz

RedRunner wrote: »

Back problems....oh yes I know them well. I've always had issues with my back and last year had a prolapsed disc. Be very very careful with this.

Get professional medical opinion of course but here's some things that helped me last year.

1. Took a break from golf (haven't played since) as it tended to aggravate the back at that time. Funnily enough I come from GAA background too, but retired.

2. Core work, core work and more core work. I took some core classes aimed at runners and without doubt this helped immensely.

3. Got a special chair in work and this helps keep good posture when sitting at desk.(Of this depends on your employer and the type of work you do)

4.If it's not feeling 100% coming up to a scheduled race, forget the race, it can only make the situation worse and you could ended up being sidelined for weeks.

Hope you get it sorted, follow the professional advice you get, be patient, and be disciplined in your rehab and you'll be good to go again.

Very similar story to mine alright although I reckon mine is a trapped nerve problem or a disc affecting a nerve. Trip to doctors surgery for me tomorrow me thinks

Dub13

Just in from a 27.5 k run (17.1 mile) LSR, I too the advice giving here that my LSR were way to fast so today I slowed it right down. It was difficult at the start to actually go that slow but once I got into a grove it was grand.

The pace per kilometre was 6:08 (9:53 per mile).My goal marathon pace will be around 5:30 per kilometre so todays run was perfect.

One thing I need to watch is the distance, I keep adding on a bit each weekend, my training plan does not start for another 4 weeks at this rate I will be up near enough marathon distance when I start the plan. So need to do something different. Any advice on that..?

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Just in from a 27.5 k run (17.1 mile) LSR, I too the advice giving here that my LSR were way to fast so today I slowed it right down. It was difficult at the start to actually go that slow but once I got into a grove it was grand.

The pace per kilometre was 6:08 (9:53 per mile).My goal marathon pace will be around 5:30 per kilometre so todays run was perfect.

One thing I need to watch is the distance, I keep adding on a bit each weekend, my training plan does not start for another 4 weeks at this rate I will be up near enough marathon distance when I start the plan. So need to do something different. Any advice on that..?

Great running this morning and good on ya for slowing it down.
I think you could scale things back a bit next week. Most plans have a step-back week every 3 or 4 weeks so maybe cut the long run next week back to 13 or 14 and build it slow back up again over the following weeks. You need to be very careful you're not going to over-do things and become fatigued or a bit over-trained. You need to keep it fresh. It's a long way to DCM and you're very far ahead of any schedule already. Even more experienced runners wouldn't necessarily be doing that long of a long run at this point. Nice running though:D

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Great running this morning and good on ya for slowing it down.
I think you could scale things back a bit next week. Most plans have a step-back week every 3 or 4 weeks so maybe cut the long run next week back to 13 or 14 and build it slow back up again over the following weeks. You need to be very careful you're not going to over-do things and become fatigued or a bit over-trained. You need to keep it fresh. It's a long way to DCM and you're very far ahead of any schedule already. Even more experienced runners wouldn't necessarily be doing that long of a long run at this point. Nice running though:D

+1.......big risk of overtraining here

adrian522

Terenure 5 mile ... 38:30

30 seconds faster than the BHAA 2 weeks ago and 6 and half mins faster than this race last year!

Ososlo

RedRunner wrote: »

+1.......big risk of overtraining here

And just to add, it's ever so slightly possible that I may have done a little too much for a novice last year;). I think I was up to 45-miles per week at the start of the plan when I didn't need to be. In my heart of hearts I knew I was doing too much but I'll be very honest here, I was a bit addicted to getting the miles in. Yes it did mean I had a very big aerobic base for a novice on the start line, but I could have done a bit (lot?) less and got the same result if not better. I got such a high for all the miles and it made me want to do more and more and more... like most addictions.

So from experience, everyone should be really careful they're not just running miles for the sake of it (not directed at you Dub13 at all just a general comment). The two plans posted here, along with any other plan you'll choose to follow will be set up with a good structure which will ensure you're not doing to much. By all means add on a 35 min really easy recovery run on the rest days, but no more.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Terenure 5 mile ... 38:30

30 seconds faster than the BHAA 2 weeks ago and 6 and half mins faster than this race last year!

Fantastic adrian!!! And very well deserved. Great to knock off half a minute in 2 weeks! That's some going!

adrian522

Ososlo wrote: »

Fantastic adrian!!! And very well deserved. Great to knock off half a minute in 2 weeks! That's some going!

I'm giving the lighter shoes some credit there. Have to be worth 5 or 6 seconds per mile.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm giving the lighter shoes some credit there. Have to be worth 5 or 6 seconds per mile.

ha ha! I always feel they give me a great boost too!

SamforMayo

adrian522 wrote: »

Terenure 5 mile ... 38:30

30 seconds faster than the BHAA 2 weeks ago and 6 and half mins faster than this race last year!

Great result, well played!

donnacha

Dub13 wrote: »

Just in from a 27.5 k run (17.1 mile) LSR, I too the advice giving here that my LSR were way to fast so today I slowed it right down. It was difficult at the start to actually go that slow but once I got into a grove it was grand.

The pace per kilometre was 6:08 (9:53 per mile).My goal marathon pace will be around 5:30 per kilometre so todays run was perfect.

One thing I need to watch is the distance, I keep adding on a bit each weekend, my training plan does not start for another 4 weeks at this rate I will be up near enough marathon distance when I start the plan. So need to do something different. Any advice on that..?

Well done on pulling back the pace - it'll stand to you come Oct.

IMO there is nothing wrong with being able to do 17m LSRs right now - what I'd be cautious off is both ensuring you are having a step back week every 4 weeks and that your LSR isn't taking too high a percentage of your weekly running miles. I got injured last year a couple of months before DCM and missed 4 weeks of training - looking back on it I realised my LSR was making up 35-45% of my weekly running. Really it should be back in the 20-25% zone.

Dub13

Cheers for the advice folks, super stuff as always. Ososlo you could be right about been addicted to getting the miles up, I have about a 2 hour break each day in work and tend to do at least 10k to 14k on my break maybe 4/5 times a week. So the aerobic base is there and over the last few weekends I have just been getting up bring and early with the weather and pushing on a bit each run.

I agree looking at it now there is a risk of overtraining, it just hits you more when its a third part telling you. So I will ease back a bit for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.

GOOSEPAUL

Good weekend of running. Friday went for a work run. Ran 8.8km in 40 minutes. Good run but heat did not help. Saturday I signed up for the Marley Park park run. Could not believe the turnout for this. Ran 5km in 20.26 struggled a little doing this and I put this down to Fridays run.

Sunday is my lsr. Took on board about slowing it down and ran a very comfortable 11miles. Could have run more but remembered the 10% rule. So far so good distance wise. Will take a rest day tomorrow and go out for a 10km run on Tuesday. Thursday is the staff relay and then its some prep runs for the Enniscorthy half marathon.

Well done everyone keep up the good work.

adrian522

Are you pretty much going flat out on all your runs?

Friday 40 mile 8k
Saturday 20 min 5k
Sunday LSR 11 miles

Seems like a lot of hard sessions back to back. Though I don't know what your flat out pace would be.

Ideally you would have a day or 2 easy running or resting between hard workouts.

Ososlo

GOOSEPAUL wrote: »

Good weekend of running. Friday went for a work run. Ran 8.8km in 40 minutes. Good run but heat did not help. Saturday I signed up for the Marley Park park run. Could not believe the turnout for this. Ran 5km in 20.26 struggled a little doing this and I put this down to Fridays run.

Sunday is my lsr. Took on board about slowing it down and ran a very comfortable 11miles. Could have run more but remembered the 10% rule. So far so good distance wise. Will take a rest day tomorrow and go out for a 10km run on Tuesday. Thursday is the staff relay and then its some prep runs for the Enniscorthy half marathon.

Well done everyone keep up the good work.

And well done to you too, especially that fantastic Parkrun!
I'd go along with adrian though. Unless this Parkrun was jogging pace for you (which I doubt it was as you said you struggled so I'm guessing you were racing it?), then there's no way as a novice I'd/or anyone else would recommend doing an 11 mile long run the day after a race:eek: That's putting a lot of stress on your body and no recovery in between. One would almost always have a recovery or rest day after a race/hard session/long run.

GOOSEPAUL

adrian522 wrote: »

Are you pretty much going flat out on all your runs?

Friday 40 mile 8k
Saturday 20 min 5k
Sunday LSR 11 miles

Seems like a lot of hard sessions back to back. Though I don't know what your flat out pace would be.

Ideally you would have a day or 2 easy running or resting between hard workouts.

Friday and Saturday were flat runs. I average a 4 main km but going forward I will be doing most my runs at a slower pace. Its all about increasing my distances now not how quickly I finish.

GOOSEPAUL

Ososlo wrote: »

And well done to you too, especially that fantastic Parkrun!
I'd go along with adrian though. Unless this Parkrun was jogging pace for you (which I doubt it was as you said you struggled so I'm guessing you were racing it?), then there's no way as a novice I'd/or anyone else would recommend doing an 11 mile long run the day after a race:eek: That's putting a lot of stress on your body and no recovery in between. One would almost always have a recovery or rest day after a race/hard session/long run.

Cheers Ososlo and Adrian. I appreciate your input on my runs. Marley I did race it and was flat out on the Friday too. Going forward all my runs will be a lot slower. Thanks again lads.