DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

SamforMayo wrote: »

I did a 10 km two and a half weeks before DCM and I did nt cut the mileage before hand, got a nice Pb which gave me courage! I would say pick your races carefully and early and that way you can incorporate them in your plan!

Fair enough;) I don't think it would have worked for me though and they're not generally included in novice training plans so close to a marathon. Everyone's different obviously:) I'd always error on side of caution!

Firedance

Thanks Ososlo! Energy wise i had more in the tank but physically my legs couldn't have taken another step lol, will take it easy tomorrow for sure.

Shadowless

7.5 miles done this morning. Avoided the rain thankfully. Took about 70 mins which was faster than I'd expected. Fairly comfortable throughout. Not sure how much I should be paying attention to pace. Just running within my comfort zone at the moment. Anyway good to go beyond 10k again. First time since October.

Nicsx

I went over on the outer aspect of my ankle yesterday morning on an uneven bit of pavement while doing a 3.6 mile run so that scuppered my plans for a run today. :-( Hopefully I won't be out of action too long and can get a couple of runs in towards the end of this week.

adrian522

Bad luck on the ankle there Nicx. Look on the bright aside though, better happen now than September/October.

Make sure its healed properly before getting back to it.

For myself, 13.35 Miles today. My longest ever run I do believe.

Firedance

Good for you Adrian, hope it went well.

Bad luck indeed nicx, some rest will hopefully sort that, hope its not too painful.

Nicsx

Just concentrating on the rest & elevation part of RICE at the mo :-)

Ososlo

Some great running going on here over the weekend but sorry Nicsx to hear about that ankle. Sounds like you're going the right way about treating it and as adrian says, better it happens now than a few months down the line. If it's not right in a few days, maybe go see someone about it. If you tell us your location someone can possibly recommend someone to you. Hope we don't have any other casualties although I fear there might be one or two from reading logs:(

So, novices, you are now in your pre-marathon training phase and are building a solid base for your marathon training programme. This phase of training is very important as it will ensure you are all strong enough to keep up with the programme when you start your marathon training in ernest in late June. Use these weeks to safely get to the mileage requirements of the first week of your marathon training plan. You have weeks and weeks to build up to this gradually, safely and slowly. No more than 10% increase in distance per week is what's normally recommended.
Keep logging your runs here, run easy, ask questions, and most of all, enjoy it:D

slingerz

Only managed 7k of a 'long run' yesterday due to not being able. 2 weeks of procrastination coupled with some excessive weekends have had a big effect. Going to do a 6 mile race on Wednesday to try and get things going again

Darren 83

I'm following Hals novice 2 plan and have been for three weeks completed, come 23rd of June should I reset and start the plan again or which weeks will I repeat that will be more beneficial to me. I should also add I will be away for a week in July so I wont be running that week. Will be walking swimming or cycling tho.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Pacing Mule

Darren 83 wrote: »

I'm following Hals novice 2 plan and have been for three weeks completed, come 23rd of June should I reset and start the plan again or which weeks will I repeat that will be more beneficial to me. I should also add I will be away for a week in July so I wont be running that week. Will be walking swimming or cycling tho.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

The idea of the early stages of that plan is to get the body used to increased mileage from a in marathon terms low base mileage. I would be inclined to repeat the previous 2/3 weeks you have been doing (to include a step back on 3rd week) a couple of times if necessary.If you are used to doing 12/14 mile LSRs at that stage there is no point in dropping back to week 1 and an 8 mile LSR base.

Then factor in getting in synch with the plan one week early to allow for the holiday week.

Darren 83

Pacing Mule wrote: »

The idea of the early stages of that plan is to get the body used to increased mileage from a in marathon terms low base mileage. I would be inclined to repeat the previous 2/3 weeks you have been doing (to include a step back on 3rd week) a couple of times if necessary.If you are used to doing 12/14 mile LSRs at that stage there is no point in dropping back to week 1 and an 8 mile LSR base.

Then factor in getting in synch with the plan one week early to allow for the holiday week.

I'll be doing a 11 mile lsr this week and when the plan starts will be up to 14-15 mile lsr

neilthefunkeone

Well hello all.. Really happy to see this thread and great work so far!! DCM '14 will be my first marathon. After completing the race series last year except for the marathon (as i was away) i really want to give it a proper go this year..

I struggled at the end of the half marathon in the park last year so was kinda glad i wasn't going on to the marathon. This year im going to get in the miles and do it properly!


Have you raced before?If so what are your PBs?
10k Samsung 2014 50:21
10m Frank duffy 2013 1:26:32
HM Dublin 2013 2:01:38


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently running 3 days a week.. will up that to 4-5. Will need to up my weekend long runs as they are hovering around 10k distance.


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I keep saying i have no time in mind i just want to enjoy the day and run it all. so 4:00:00!!!!

How many days a week can you train? Clearing the evenings of Astro and other activities so 4-5 days!

Why are you running this marathon? I really enjoy running and previous races have always been great experiences.. Want to push myself forward and hopefully successfully compete this and many more!

Finnt

I've been reading "advanced marathoning" in it they talk about replacing recovery runs with cross training. Just wondering what people think of this and what are peoples experiences of it?

Ososlo

Finnt wrote: »

I've been reading "advanced marathoning" in it they talk about replacing recovery runs with cross training. Just wondering what people think of this and what are peoples experiences of it?

Good question! Lots of marathon programmes include cross training on a recovery day. Personally I'd always favour a very short recovery run to anything else but I know some people like to swim, cycle etc and like the variation of doing something completely different. As long as it's not going to leave you fatigued or cause injury I don't see anything wrong with doing another sport. Main thing is you want to be fresh for your next run.
The recovery run would win for me hands down every time:D

adrian522

to be honest I'd always rather an extra run than an hour cross training. Unless you are already running 6 days a week and you need to give the body a break I'd prefer the additional miles.

If you are only running 3 or 4 times per week is it really worth sacrificing one of those runs for a day of Cross training?

This is all just my own personal opinion though I haven't read the book. I would say Cross training should not replace an existing run but should be in addition to your planned runs.

If I have extra time I'll spend it doing strength or core work rather than swimming or cycling.

AuldManKing

Regarding recovery runs v cross training, if you are a new runner training for your 1st marathon, running 5-6 days a week can be the road to injury. Cross training help this while maintaining and enhancing you aerobicly.

Swimming and cycling are great training for recovery, done in place of a run .

AuldManKing

adrian522 wrote: »

to be honest I'd always rather an extra run than an hour cross training. Unless you are already running 6 days a week and you need to give the body a break I'd prefer the additional miles.

If you are only running 3 or 4 times per week is it really worth sacrificing one of those runs for a day of Cross training?

This is all just my own personal opinion though I haven't read the book. I would say Cross training should not replace an existing run but should be in addition to your planned runs.

If I have extra time I'll spend it doing strength or core work rather than swimming or cycling.

It's worthwhile reading the book and getting the context behind the advice.

Ososlo

AuldManKing wrote: »

Regarding recovery runs v cross training, if you are a new runner training for your 1st marathon, running 5-6 days a week can be the road to injury. Cross training help this while maintaining and enhancing you aerobicly.

Swimming and cycling are great training for recovery, done in place of a run .

I really do believe that if recovery runs are done at the correct effort - extremely comfortably - then they are not going to lead to injury, quite the opposite actually! People in general run them too fast and too long and they're not really recovery runs then and end up getting injured. I included recovery runs and ran 6 days a week for my first marathon and was very new to the sport and these runs always assisted in my recovery as I did them at the correct effort and never longer than 35-40 mins. Run them too fast and too long and yes I agree you'd definitely be better off not doing them!

adrian522

AuldManKing wrote: »

It's worthwhile reading the book and getting the context behind the advice.

Wow that was your 1000 post

Yeah, I do intend on reading it at some point, I'm just afraid on information overload if I jump into it right now.

I may read it later in the summer alright, but would probably not follow his plan until my next marathon!

RedRunner

The point here I think is that both AMK and Ososlo are correct here. I tend to do what the body tells me to do. Sometimes it's a recovery run. Sometimes it's some bike work. Sometimes it's complete rest. Some people prefer to be doing something but I found when I started building the mileage to numbers I had never hit before that a day of complete rest was essential. So I would recommend that you try different approaches over the first few weeks of your plan and see how you feel and what you are most comfortable with.

drquirky

No need to over complicate/ over think. Good advise from both AMK and Ososlo. Newbies- if you run 5 days a week, listen to your body (as mentioned by RR above), get your LSR's in and most of all be CONSISTENT I assure you DCM will be a great experience for you.

Don't stress about running, its supposed to be fun. Run easy days easy, hard days hard, build slowly but steadily, race every few weeks(not as much in the 10-12 weeks before the marathon) and most of all rest/ recover as this is where gains are realised from your hard work!

drquirky

Nicsx wrote: »

I went over on the outer aspect of my ankle yesterday morning on an uneven bit of pavement while doing a 3.6 mile run so that scuppered my plans for a run today. :-( Hopefully I won't be out of action too long and can get a couple of runs in towards the end of this week.

Have struggled in the past w/ dodgy ankles. Good way to strengthen is to balance on one foot at a time for as long as you can. When you get good at this, close your eyes while doing it. Is really good for building stabilisers.

Firedance

drquirky wrote: »

No need to over complicate/ over think. Good advise from both AMK and Ososlo. Newbies- if you run 5 days a week, listen to your body (as mentioned by RR above), get your LSR's in and most of all be CONSISTENT I assure you DCM will be a great experience for you.

Don't stress about running, its supposed to be fun. Run easy days easy, hard days hard, build slowly but steadily, race every few weeks(not as much in the 10-12 weeks before the marathon) and most of all rest/ recover as this is where gains are realised from your hard work!

yep I think that's key, we need to listen to our bodies, everyone is different, I know when I was training for the half I did no recovery runs and I definitely should have, I do like swimming as a cross training activity, it works for me as my feet enjoy the rest!

slingerz

What are the thoughts on the do's and dont's of the LSR? For example I have an 11 mile LSR pencilled in for Saturday however I fear that i may need to take a walk break or two in this time is that ok or should i be looking to keep going until the end?

Darren 83

slingerz wrote: »

What are the thoughts on the do's and dont's of the LSR? For example I have an 11 mile LSR pencilled in for Saturday however I fear that i may need to take a walk break or two in this time is that ok or should i be looking to keep going until the end?

If you need to take a walking rest take it, or just go even slower pace. It will do you no harm at all.

frash

Darren 83 wrote: »

If you need to take a walking rest take it, or just go even slower pace. It will do you no harm at all.

I take a minute's break for a water stop & that's usually is enough but it'll depend on yourself really.

john kinsella

Going to throw my hat in with this....

Got semi-serious about running for a few months earlier this year with a view to doing the DCM but have had a break of just over a month until now to get my legs right. (popped my calf muscle about 5 weeks ago, was good to go a few weeks back but decided not to push it)




Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?

Only ever participated in one orgainised race before which was Carlingford HM 01/03/14 in 1:59:01

Other training runs....

5k 25.28

10k 59.13

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?

Not at the distances I am currently going


How much training do you currently do ?

4/5 days a week, distances vary but minimum of 5ks up to longest of 15k so far


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I just want to finish the marathon and in a respectable time, I would love to do around the 4 hr mark but not sure how realistic that is

How many days a week can you train?

4 or 5


Why are you running this marathon?

Turning 30 this year and its been a dream of mine to complete it after my MOTHER did the DCM two years ago.

Ososlo

slingerz wrote: »

What are the thoughts on the do's and dont's of the LSR? For example I have an 11 mile LSR pencilled in for Saturday however I fear that i may need to take a walk break or two in this time is that ok or should i be looking to keep going until the end?

Yeah like the others say, if you need to walk then walk of course, but if you start out slowly enough you mightn't have to walk at all. I wouldn't think it's any big problem to take little walking breaks if you need to. I know the thoughts of the longer distance runs can be quite daunting when you're new to them so do whatever it takes in the beginning to cover the distance but get the pacing efforts right from the start and you might find you can complete the full distance jogging. Good luck with it and make sure to report back!

Dub13

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, I was in Liverpool Sat & Sun night for the football.

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi Dub13 and you're very welcome to the thread! Did you feel fairly comfortable for most of the run this morning? Well done. Great to be up to those distances at this stage in the year. It'll stand to ya!
Going back to your first post and your quandary about the run Ireland training plans, I was looking at the Intermediate one and there seems to be a fairly hefty speedwork session each Wednesday. Would you be doing much in the way of speedwork at the moment? If not I'd say it might be a recipe for injury. Also, I've just seen the long run set-up. Every second week you have either a race or a race-pace session and a 10k race 2 weeks before the marathon :eek: It seems like a fairly advanced plan to me. I know some people on this forum would do similar in a marathon build up but they'd be fairly advanced runners.
Here's the plan if anyone cares to jump in with their advice. Maybe someone here has done it and they can let you know how they found it:

http://www.runireland.com/sites/www.runireland.com/files/Training_for_marathon.pdf
Another option would be to do the Beginner one and tweak it a bit so that you're not stepping back on your current mileage. I definitely wouldn't advise going backwards at this stage. Nice run again this morning

I felt good after the run, a couple of KM before the end I got caught at a dart crossing for maybe 3/4 min and it was hard to get going again. So brings home how important it is to not stop.

On the run Ireland plan I think you are right, I will look at modifying the beginner one and maybe doing week 3/4 a few times and take it from there. On the speed work, funny you should ask I am only working on that the last couple of weeks and was going to ask about that here. See my question below.

I have not seen much talk on this forum of the run Ireland plans, be interested to here from anybody who has done one.

donnacha wrote: »

Looks like you have a good base and great to see you getting good mileage in now.

If your target time for a DCM finish is just under 4hrs then my read of your LSR pace is that its way too fast. I'd be dialling it back at least 35/40 seconds.

I have been doing a bit of reading up on the LSR and yes they seem to be the bread and butter of training plans. The target pace for DCM14 will be 5:20 to 5:30 per KM, this LSR was about 5:40 just because I felt good and did not want to slow down. Am I wrong here...?

A couple of weeks ago I decided to work on my speed as its an area I have never worked on and I will still have a few weeks to the start of the plan. Is this a good idea..? I do a fast 5k with 400m sprints 4/5 times over the 5k, I then have a couple of min rest and then do a slower 5/6k to keep the mileage up.

2 weeks ago I went out and did a 5K that will be my base to try an improve on.

23:48

1k 4:25
2K 4:37
3k 4:56
4K 5:00
5k 4:48

My first target is to get them all under 4:30.

Then last Firday after 3 speed sessions I knocked 19 seconds off this. Its not a lot but heading in the right direction. And not bad after only 3 sessions.

1k 4:31 (+6)
2K 4:37 ( 0 )
3k 4:52 (- 4)
4K 4:57 (-3)
5k 4:30 (-18)