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Anglo Trial - Read Mod Warning in First post

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    #182
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Link?

    You want a link to something saying Fitzpatrick didn't bankrupt Ireland :confused:

    One would think it's pretty obvious that our economic downturn wasn't down to the actions of one man


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    #183
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    comewatmay wrote: »
    He gave loans to people to buy shares in a bank which inflated the share price. People purchased shares in this bank thinking it was more liquid than it was.

    That is what he did wrong. Not illegal but wrong.


    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.


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    #184
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Why do people throw this self-important ****e around?

    We're not the only country in the world that bad things happen in

    I don't care about your fantasy "rest of the world". I care about the bit I live in with my family and judge it on the standards I see being applied. White collar - be grand. Blue collar - be damned. I lol at your "self important" bit too.


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    #185
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Shoot them?

    Frankly that's pretty disgusting and barbaric

    Imagine being that guys child and seeing that headline


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    #186
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Nodin wrote: »
    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.

    Jurors thought different


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    #187
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    comewatmay wrote: »
    Watching him on 6ome there. Absolutly sickening.

    Wants curtesy? F*uck sake. He should be hounded out of the country by the media.

    He broke no law but he did very wrong.

    The jury judged him on legislation from 1963!!!!

    Makes my blood boil this.


    The man has no shame. If I was in his position I would be embarrassed that I cost the state billions but he thinks its all a big joke.

    I hope the media hound him for rest of his life.


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    #188
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,602 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    But he didn't.

    well he certainly played his part , along with about 10 other senior figures , or should i say bastions of Irish industry or captains of the banking world.


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    #189
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    The DOJ decided they were too big to jail. Compare with the Junk bond traders in the 80's or Enron. You are right though.

    ps...the regulatory regime permitted a lot of things to happen that were not legal in the 80s and 90s. Human greed on an institutional level facilitated a lot of this.

    In Ireland the regulatory regime reduced to being as powerful as a wet fart. Again, greed bought elections, success helped turn a blind eye.


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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If it was so hard to prove that he was guilty of anything, even ONE of the ten charges, why bring the case in the first place?

    How much is this going to cost the state now in Lawyers' fees? And for what?


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    #191
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    Jurors thought different


    No, they found him not guilty. Rather a different thing.


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    #192
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    I don't care about your fantasy "rest of the world". I care about the bit I live in with my family and judge it on the standards I see being applied. White collar - be grand. Blue collar - be damned. I lol at your "self important" bit too.

    maybe don't say "only in Ireland" in future so


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    #193
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.


    The jury were presented all the evidence, we weren't.

    And FYI, someone has been arrested for the Omagh bombing.


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    #194
    comewatmay
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭comewatmay


    Nodin wrote: »
    "FORMER Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Sean Fitzpatrick is to go on trial accused of unlawfully helping to back a group of investors – including members of Sean Quinn's family – to buy shares in the financial institution in 2008."
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tanned-fitzpatrick-bailed-after-facing-bank-fraud-charges-26879303.html

    It IS illegal, for jaysus sake.

    The jury just found him not guilty?


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    #195
    Spring Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    what's your own take on the matter? Can you explain it?

    You're....angry :D


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    #196
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.

    It's laughable to say the least. There are no laws in little old Ireland for what happened at Anglo. In reality corruption or fraud does not exist for the well connected. Good luck to him.


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    #197
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    Spring Onion wrote: »
    You're....angry :D

    Am I?


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    #198
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Link?

    What?!? Why not provide me a link proving that he did bankrupt the state.


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    #199
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    that's def not true. As much as you probably want to believe it. Majority of the population wouldn't even recognise him

    It is Ugo, I work there!


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    #200
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    It is Ugo, I work there!

    what restaurant out of interest?


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    #201
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Thank God for the jury system.


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    #202
    BazPM
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭BazPM


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    why don't you tell me why he should have been convicted and what crimes he committed then?

    I was following the trial and found it very hard to grasp. If anything I'm ignorant myself. Hence why I'm wondering where all the outrage stems from

    I haven't even followed the trial myself but to assume that anyone against his aquittal are just ignorant of the charges is not fair. Just because you can't grasp the trial doesn't mean there are no posters here who could and who would be genuinely disgusted at the aquittal.


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    #203
    omnishambles
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭omnishambles


    Most of the posts in this thread are probably in one or more forms of contempt of court...


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    #204
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It won't, it will be a matter of weeks before his pals like 'Mammy' in RTE have Seanie on their shows to complete his rehabilitation. The financial meltdown was like the Omagh bombing, and Monaghan and Dublin bombings, the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder etc.etc. nobody was responsible... what a country.

    Given the attitude of some on this thread about the verdict - while admitting that they don't themselves fully understand the case (I don't either) - did the jury? It took them 13.5 hours - hardly a sign that they were of a single mind. There would have been more chance of a conviction if the trial had taken place in front of a judge or panel of judges.

    Would you be saying that if you got a guilty verdict?

    I didn't keep up with the trial much, but my reading when it started out was that it would be difficult to get a conviction, especially when the stuff about the Regulator knowing about the loans came out.

    Given what we know about lack of regulation and a general laissez faire attitude during the bubble, it isn't surprising we had no laws to deal with what happened at that bank.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #205
    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    BazPM wrote: »
    I haven't even followed the trial myself but to assume that anyone against his aquittal are just ignorant of the charges is not fair. Just because you can't grasp the trial doesn't mean there are no posters here who could and who would be genuinely disgusted at the aquittal.

    I didn't do that. You seem to be just making up things.


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    #206
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    What?!? Why not provide me a link proving that he did bankrupt the state.

    Have you been in hibernation for the last few years?


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    #207
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    what restaurant out of interest?

    There's a very hungry monk in Greystones!


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    #208
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »
    maybe don't say "only in Ireland" in future so

    Naah, I'll say whatever I like. The day you're in charge, I'll do your bidding.

    Getting a conviction in white-collar cases is notoriously almost impossible as even the prosecution struggle to tie the seams of a case together in a manner that can be understood by lay-people. Fraud cases are very hard to get a conviction on in Jury trials as the complexity is often baffling even for forensic accountants. Trying to spell it out, in plain language, with no shadow of doubt, even if, to an expert it is black and white(which it seldom is, grey prevails) with no room for the Defence to cast in "reasonable doubt" must be very frustrating.

    Try explaining a contract for difference transaction to someone, even a straightforward one, and you will at some point lose the audience. You'd need a jury of accountants to sit on financial trials - which would be a bit tricky to do. But even still, you'd wonder why this was not a slam dunk. I think the dogs in the street grasped what occurred.


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    #209
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    K-9 wrote: »
    Would you be saying that if you got a guilty verdict?

    I didn't keep up with the trial much, but my reading when it started out was that it would be difficult to get a conviction, especially when the stuff about the Regulator knowing about the loans came out.

    Given what we know about lack of regulation and a general laissez faire attitude during the bubble, it isn't surprising we had no laws to deal with what happened at that bank.

    He was never going to be found guilty and the others will walk too - the 'golden circle' is alive and well. Personally, I wouldn't have given him a trial and you can read that whatever way you want.


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    #210
    Specialun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    I never knew there was so my solicitors in After hours


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    #211
    kevohmsford
    Registered Users Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭kevohmsford


    What a disgrace. :mad:


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