PS4 sells 4.2 million units!

DaLad

DaLad wrote: »

Well there's plenty in stock now for most people who want it at the moment:

http://www.checkargos.com/StockCheckPage.php?productId=122%2F2540

http://www.checkargos.com/StockCheckPage.php?productId=144%2F7947

55 miles drive to my nearest one.

MiskyBoyy

Deleted User wrote: »

55 miles drive to my nearest one.

Where are you living?

CiDeRmAn

gaynorvader wrote: »

Who should pay for renting the servers and the bandwidth then in your opinion?

Let me see....
Gamestop!
I gave them enough of my money over the years!

MiskyBoyy

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Let me see....
Gamestop!
I gave them enough of my money over the years!

Lol they're not exactly please with it: Gamestop stock plunges following Playstation Now Announcement

Varik

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You give up your rights to the license when you sell it on.

As Magill pointed out you have a license to play these games, but that isn't what you are paying for with online purchases or streaming services. Their licenses say you are renting a service from them. Some one has to pay for the bandwidth and servers as well. If you look at the licensing agreement with steam you'll find out you technically don't own any of the games you bought or even have a license to use them like with traditional software.

Also you can't equate movie and software copyright law, they are totally different.

Can't remember the game but Steam have already taken a game away from people, it was some MP only game that had it's servers shut down and Steam removed this paid game from everyone's accounts.

CiDeRmAn

Best example was with the Kindle, and people awoke to find, ironically, their copy of 1984 by George Orwell missing.
Amazon decided that the rights to publish the book were in error and so simply went and deleted it from everyone's Kindles overnight.

_Redzer_

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Best example was with the Kindle, and people awoke to find, ironically, their copy of 1984 by George Orwell missing.
Amazon decided that the rights to publish the book were in error and so simply went and deleted it from everyone's Kindles overnight.

I don't get what you're going on about. If you bought a book in a shop would expect to have a free kindle download waiting for you, even if that book was bought 10 years ago?

Same with a CD or DVD you bought, would you expect to get the digital copies for free too since you already bought them?

You say you already have a PS3 and PS2, what are you giving out about? Just play your games on those consoles. It'll also be cheaper to buy physical old games for them anyway.

This is for people who don't have a PS3 or 2 or even 1. I'm keeping my PS3 because I'm not going to rebuy the games, but it's still dead handy to have PS3 games on the vita, so I'd pay for that if I had one.

DaLad

DaLad wrote: »

Where are you living?

Right now the only ones available are Athlone, Castlebar, Clonmel, Cork, Kilkenny, Letterkenny, Limerick, Longford, Tullamore, Waterford, Wexford. Now it's a 2 hour drive to my nearest one, so that should give you a fairly good hint :P

MiskyBoyy

Deleted User wrote: »

Right now the only ones available are Athlone, Castlebar, Clonmel, Cork, Kilkenny, Letterkenny, Limerick, Longford, Tullamore, Waterford, Wexford. Now it's a 2 hour drive to my nearest one, so that should give you a fairly good hint :P

Dublin? Well there's one in Argos right now in Naas, there's also a crap load of them in Argos stores in Dublin reserved by people on boards here to give away to other Boardsies on a different thread and then there's also these 84 available in Powercity: http://www.powercity.ie/index.php?par=20-35&cat=Stereo,%20iPOD,%20Phones,%20Printers,%20SatNav,%20TV%20Stands,Games%20consoles&action=brandstory

Retr0gamer

_Redzer_ wrote: »

I don't get what you're going on about. If you bought a book in a shop would expect to have a free kindle download waiting for you, even if that book was bought 10 years ago?

Same with a CD or DVD you bought, would you expect to get the digital copies for free too since you already bought them?

Software copyright is completely different to other copyright law.

CiDeRmAn

I was just giving an example.
Kindle is completely different from PSN or XBLA.
Don't get so stressed man.

gaynorvader

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Let me see....
Gamestop!
I gave them enough of my money over the years!

I'm guessing this is a joke?

DaLad

DaLad wrote: »

Dublin? Well there's one in Argos right now in Naas, there's also a crap load of them in Argos stores in Dublin reserved by people on boards here to give away to other Boardsies on a different thread and then there's also these 84 available in Powercity: http://www.powercity.ie/index.php?par=20-35&cat=Stereo,%20iPOD,%20Phones,%20Printers,%20SatNav,%20TV%20Stands,Games%20consoles&action=brandstory

Nope, 50-odd miles north from Dublin. I could always go abroad I guess :P

MiskyBoyy

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, 50-odd miles north from Dublin. I could always go abroad I guess :P

Ok final guess, somewhere near Dundalk? lol You could just go to Powercity in Drogheda or you could just order online on Powercity and have one delivered to you within 2 days, meerkat simples!

DaLad

DaLad wrote: »

Ok final guess, somewhere near Dundalk? lol You could just go to Powercity in Drogheda or you could just order online on Powercity and have one delivered to you within 2 days, meerkat simples!

Close enough :P Yeah I'm not in a mad hurry to get one right now but it's not a case of just walking in to get one is my point. Also each time I check the Argos thing there it's changed, seems like there's a little bit of stock going into different branches all the time, they're not hanging around long.

MiskyBoyy

Deleted User wrote: »

Close enough :P Yeah I'm not in a mad hurry to get one right now but it's not a case of just walking in to get one is my point. Also each time I check the Argos thing there it's changed, seems like there's a little bit of stock going into different branches all the time, they're not hanging around long.

Yeah, true up until yesterday. They seem to be plenty in stock and staying there apart from a few here and there now tho. It's safe to say the drought is well and truely over!

jenjenten

on target to sell 6 plus million by end of march. great for gamers as the console will be well supported going forward.

DaLad

DaLad wrote: »

Yeah, true up until yesterday. They seem to be plenty in stock and staying there apart from a few here and there now tho. It's safe to say the drought is well and truely over!

If we're just talking about Argos I don't think it can be said the drought is over. There's a grand total of 5 of the bundle version according to the stockchecker, there were actually more when I checked the first time yesterday.

MiskyBoyy

Deleted User wrote: »

If we're just talking about Argos I don't think it can be said the drought is over. There's a grand total of 5 of the bundle version according to the stockchecker, there were actually more when I checked the first time yesterday.

In general. Powercity have plenty of the bundles to go around and when I say the drought is over, I mean, there's actually some in stock around the Country, referring to the PS4 on it's own. A lot more than could be said a week ago or a month ago!

FAILSAFE 00

gaynorvader wrote: »

I can't see the logic in owning a game entitling you to streaming it too. I don't expect Netflix to allow me to stream a movie if I own the DVD.

But what if you bought the DVD from Netflix. Would you not expect to be able to stream it for free.

If you buy a movie from iTunes you can stream it to all idevices at no extra cost.

aN.Droid

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

But what if you bought the DVD from Netflix. Would you not expect to be able to stream it for free.

If you buy a movie from iTunes you can stream it to all idevices at no extra cost.

I wouldn't expect an automatic right to stream it for free if I bought it on DVD unless it was stated that you automatically gain streaming rights.

If I buy a movie on the PSN store I can play it on the ps3, vita and ps4.

nesf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Technically you bought a license to use that software not just a disc. It would be nice if they would honour this but when does being nice trump making more money.

I'm pretty damn sure that licence wouldn't include any scenario outside of using it on a PS1 (and maybe an emulation of the PS1 hardware but I'm not sure on the latter). Even if not stated explicitly. I don't think people have any leg to stand on here legally. E.g. none of us would consider it reasonable to think that because we owned a blu-ray that we'd be legally entitled to stream the film on Netflix if we didn't pay for Netflix. There is an example with Steam on the PC where you can enter CD-keys from titles you bought many years ago and register them to your Steam account but (afaik) think was more complicated because 1) the publishers wanted it because it meant easier patching of games with minimal bandwidth costs to themseves and 2) Steam wanted to encourage people to think of their client as "the" PC game launcher so were more than happy to have you registering old games if you'd buy your future games through Steam as time went on (which in fairness did seem to work for them, the patching and launching of older titles you already owned served as a kind of trial period of the service with only some bandwidth costs for Valve involved).

Sorry, off topic.

tok9

This conversation is actually a little interesting even if I do disagree with expecting to stream something for free if I own it on another format.

Just wanted to say that it's better suited to the Playstation Now Thread

Retr0gamer

nesf wrote: »

I'm pretty damn sure that licence wouldn't include any scenario outside of using it on a PS1 (and maybe an emulation of the PS1 hardware but I'm not sure on the latter). Even if not stated explicitly. I don't think people have any leg to stand on here legally.

Actually you do. If the code is exactly the same as the game you bought then you are entitled to use that software. So Sony would have had no right to charge me for using my PS1 games in my PS2 or PS3 if they worked.

However these games bought on the store all have been modified slightly and come with an emulation wrapper so it doesn't hold true so they technically aren't the same piece of software.

In a perfect world they'd be nice about it. In reality some one has to pay to develop the emulation wrapper for each game and the servers and bandwidth to host it. That and legally your license doesn't cover the new game.

johnny_ultimate

Also with the Steam upgrade the benefit of CD Keys was that the publishers had a way of keeping track of the copies in circulation. Obviously there were suspect ways around that, but PC gaming has long had a verification system console games haven't. With Steam the cost is nowhere near as significant as persistent streaming would be, and I'm sure Valve's charge for verification and download of a game is very minimal if not absolutely negligible for the publisher.

nesf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Actually you do. If the code is exactly the same as the game you bought then you are entitled to use that software. So Sony would have had no right to charge me for using my PS1 games in my PS2 or PS3 if they worked.

However these games bought on the store all have been modified slightly and come with an emulation wrapper so it doesn't hold true so they technically aren't the same piece of software.

In a perfect world they'd be nice about it. In reality some one has to pay to develop the emulation wrapper for each game and the servers and bandwidth to host it. That and legally your license doesn't cover the new game.

I don't agree at all. With the PS2 and PS3 you were using your disc to do it on your machine with hardware you purchased. Here we're talking about streaming it to your television from a server which constitutes an extra service on top of the game itself. No way your original licence would grant you this for free.

gaynorvader

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Actually you do. If the code is exactly the same as the game you bought then you are entitled to use that software. So Sony would have had no right to charge me for using my PS1 games in my PS2 or PS3 if they worked.

However these games bought on the store all have been modified slightly and come with an emulation wrapper so it doesn't hold true so they technically aren't the same piece of software.

In a perfect world they'd be nice about it. In reality some one has to pay to develop the emulation wrapper for each game and the servers and bandwidth to host it. That and legally your license doesn't cover the new game.

You also don't own the code, you own your copy of the code.

CiDeRmAn

I think we are getting away from the point here.
I was simply stating that if the PS range of software, and lets assume the games on offer will be first party titles, is being streamed from a remote server where they are being run, and if I am signed up for this service, the consumer is going to have another subscription on top of the PSN+ sub they are already paying.
Now, this new sub is going to entitle the user for a certain amount of games to use as they wish, but also there seems to be another wrinkle where the user is going to pay to play individual games for varying degrees of time. When the licence expires you will no longer be entitled to play that game.
My opinion is that, if I sign up to the new service and pay a sub for it, I should be able to access the games I already own by using the genuine disks I own as a key, rather than paying to licence the game for a certain period.
Any time I want to play that game I will have to insert the game disk.
Bear in mind I will be already paying a sub for the service.
I would want that assuming again that I am going to be playing the same game as I bought, without improvements.
If there are improvements then, by all means I'd expect to pay for them.
There is no legal entitlement of mine to have this gifted to me, or anyone else, but it would be a form of goodwill, seeing as I have a rather large collection of games from the history of the PS series of systems.
If you cast your mind back to the launch of the PSP Go we can see a comparable situation, where there was a suggestion that people who were moving from the standard PSP to the diskless Go would not have to buy their game collection all over again via download, but I don't believe the service was supplied due to the unpopularity of the system.

It's not like wanting a Blu because I have the DVD/VHS
It's not that I want the PS4 to emulate anything
It's not that I expect a free upgrade to software
I don't want to have to pay twice for the same game, paying the same company while I'm at it.

But I have to accept that, if I do sign up to the service when I get a PS4 later this year, that I will not have the option I desire.
I will sign up anyway, as a collector of games across the history of the hobby I won't be able to help myself.
It's not a PS4 killer to me, nor am I directly criticising the company of some conspiracy.
They are in it to make money, same as everyone else, and this service is another way to develop a further revenue stream from users, and lets be very clear and honest about that.

gaynorvader

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I think we are getting away from the point here.
I was simply stating that if the PS range of software, and lets assume the games on offer will be first party titles, is being streamed from a remote server where they are being run, and if I am signed up for this service, the consumer is going to have another subscription on top of the PSN+ sub they are already paying.
Now, this new sub is going to entitle the user for a certain amount of games to use as they wish, but also there seems to be another wrinkle where the user is going to pay to play individual games for varying degrees of time. When the licence expires you will no longer be entitled to play that game.
My opinion is that, if I sign up to the new service and pay a sub for it, I should be able to access the games I already own by using the genuine disks I own as a key, rather than paying to licence the game for a certain period.
Any time I want to play that game I will have to insert the game disk.
Bear in mind I will be already paying a sub for the service.
I would want that assuming again that I am going to be playing the same game as I bought, without improvements.
If there are improvements then, by all means I'd expect to pay for them.
There is no legal entitlement of mine to have this gifted to me, or anyone else, but it would be a form of goodwill, seeing as I have a rather large collection of games from the history of the PS series of systems.
If you cast your mind back to the launch of the PSP Go we can see a comparable situation, where there was a suggestion that people who were moving from the standard PSP to the diskless Go would not have to buy their game collection all over again via download, but I don't believe the service was supplied due to the unpopularity of the system.

It's not like wanting a Blu because I have the DVD/VHS
It's not that I want the PS4 to emulate anything
It's not that I expect a free upgrade to software
I don't want to have to pay twice for the same game, paying the same company while I'm at it.

But I have to accept that, if I do sign up to the service when I get a PS4 later this year, that I will not have the option I desire.
I will sign up anyway, as a collector of games across the history of the hobby I won't be able to help myself.
It's not a PS4 killer to me, nor am I directly criticising the company of some conspiracy.
They are in it to make money, same as everyone else, and this service is another way to develop a further revenue stream from users, and lets be very clear and honest about that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you seem to be saying is:
"I own some games. I will be paying to stream a set pool of games. I should be allowed to stream the games I'm not paying to stream for free because I already own them."
Is this correct?

aN.Droid

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I think we are getting away from the point here.
I was simply stating that if the PS range of software, and lets assume the games on offer will be first party titles, is being streamed from a remote server where they are being run, and if I am signed up for this service, the consumer is going to have another subscription on top of the PSN+ sub they are already paying.
Now, this new sub is going to entitle the user for a certain amount of games to use as they wish, but also there seems to be another wrinkle where the user is going to pay to play individual games for varying degrees of time. When the licence expires you will no longer be entitled to play that game.
My opinion is that, if I sign up to the new service and pay a sub for it, I should be able to access the games I already own by using the genuine disks I own as a key, rather than paying to licence the game for a certain period.
Any time I want to play that game I will have to insert the game disk.
Bear in mind I will be already paying a sub for the service.
I would want that assuming again that I am going to be playing the same game as I bought, without improvements.
If there are improvements then, by all means I'd expect to pay for them.
There is no legal entitlement of mine to have this gifted to me, or anyone else, but it would be a form of goodwill, seeing as I have a rather large collection of games from the history of the PS series of systems.
If you cast your mind back to the launch of the PSP Go we can see a comparable situation, where there was a suggestion that people who were moving from the standard PSP to the diskless Go would not have to buy their game collection all over again via download, but I don't believe the service was supplied due to the unpopularity of the system.

It's not like wanting a Blu because I have the DVD/VHS
It's not that I want the PS4 to emulate anything
It's not that I expect a free upgrade to software
I don't want to have to pay twice for the same game, paying the same company while I'm at it.

But I have to accept that, if I do sign up to the service when I get a PS4 later this year, that I will not have the option I desire.
I will sign up anyway, as a collector of games across the history of the hobby I won't be able to help myself.
It's not a PS4 killer to me, nor am I directly criticising the company of some conspiracy.
They are in it to make money, same as everyone else, and this service is another way to develop a further revenue stream from users, and lets be very clear and honest about that.

Can I make a friendly suggestion before I make my reply to the above post. Please format your posts better. It is very hard to read a long post in your posting style.

As for your post contents itself. You say it is not like wanting a dvd when you have a vhs but it is exactly like that.

Your last statement lets us know that this is a business making new profit streams. That is exactly what it is. They have paid millions in R&D and equipment to make a profit eventually. They will not give you something for free when it costs them just by you opening the game in bandwidth.

Again, nothing is stopping you play on your older consoles.