Lamela - Our record signing

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

I was told it's too soon to judge him???
I was told I don't get it???
I was told he's world class???

Approaching Xmas in his 2nd season and has still done nothing in a Spurs jersey. How long do I have to wait??

Gives the ball away constantly, pulls out of tackles, no heart....30m????

You were told all that about two weeks ago. You have to wait a LOT longer than that.

Forget about him being a 30m player. He's not. It's hoped he will be in the future, like in about two seasons. So far it's not looking good. He definitely shouldn't have started tonight. Gives the ball away too much with bad decision making.

Dublin Spur

lets be honest here - he's a bit of a muppet:
he seems to have only one trick (rolling the ball under his foot)
he gives the ball away a lot
he gives away needless fouls all the time and will see red very soon

I think its fair to have expected a lot more by now given the transfer fee and the fact thet he was somewhat of a star player at Roma.

I would love him to prove me wrong - I think this season is make or break for him

mickman

Dublin Spur wrote: »

lets be honest here - he's a bit of a muppet:
he seems to have only one trick (rolling the ball under his foot)
he gives the ball away a lot
he gives away needless fouls all the time and will see red very soon

I think its fair to have expected a lot more by now given the transfer fee and the fact thet he was somewhat of a star player at Roma.

I would love him to prove me wrong - I think this season is make or break for him

its a lot easier to cut in from the wing in seria a and score then it is in the EPL. He is getting found out now and i agree, he is not making the grade at all

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

its a lot easier to cut in from the wing in seria a and score then it is in the EPL. He is getting found out now and i agree, he is not making the grade at all

Why is that? Defences are generally better organised in Serie A than the Premiership.

Sugarlumps

I knew nowt about him before joining. Never watch those glorified youtube videos. He over elaborates when he should be going for the simpler pass. Tackling and tracking back needs improving vastly.

He is trying though, needs a few assists/goals, then you might see a different player. I'd give him till the end of the season, seems there would be plenty of suitors back in Italy that would take him.

Townsend should be breathing down his neck.

mickman

Ormus wrote: »

Why is that? Defences are generally better organised in Serie A than the Premiership.

I would have terry / cahill any day of the week instead of a seria a defense

positivenote

Ormus wrote: »

Why is that? Defences are generally better organised in Serie A than the Premiership.

all aspects of Seria A has been in decline for years mate. The best defenders in world football are playing in EPL, Germany and La Legia (or at PSG). The overall standard of defending is not at a great level, but to say Seria A defences are more organized may have been true a few years ago, but not today.
imho

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

I would have terry / cahill any day of the week instead of a seria a defense

Ok...

That is two defenders, instead of a whole league.

Maybe what you're trying to say is that Terry and Cahill are better than any defender in Serie A?

But what I was saying is that defences are generally better organised in Serie A than in the Premiership. I'd fully agree that Chelsea's defence would be one of the best in Serie A, if that's what you mean?

Ormus

positivenote wrote: »

all aspects of Seria A has been in decline for years mate. The best defenders in world football are playing in EPL, Germany and La Legia (or at PSG). The overall standard of defending is not at a great level, but to say Seria A defences are more organized may have been true a few years ago, but not today.
imho

Ok. It's just my opinion. Obviously Serie A has gone way down in quality in the last 20 years, but I still think the Italians are great defensively. Even if they lack quality, I think a mid table Italian defence will be more stingy than a Premiership one, often because they just play way more defensively. It's a lower scoring league. I'm not talking so much about quality as about defensive attitude. It's harder to score goals in Italy than the Premiership.

Glebee

Surely if hes getting some game time with Argentina he cant be that bad..Dont know anything about him previous but he must have shown some talent.. A Wednesday night in December is probally not to his liking though.
Sell him to our Real Madrid partners:)

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

You were told all that about two weeks ago. You have to wait a LOT longer than that.

Forget about him being a 30m player. He's not. It's hoped he will be in the future, like in about two seasons. So far it's not looking good. He definitely shouldn't have started tonight. Gives the ball away too much with bad decision making.

So you buy a lad for 30m and hope he'll be good after 3 seasons, give it over....

SeaDaily

Hatch99 wrote: »

So you buy a lad for 30m and hope he'll be good after 3 seasons, give it over....

Why do you keep harping back to the €30 million price tag as if people in this thread are trying to justify his price? Not one person here has said he was worth that.

Sugarlumps

Perhaps a poll would be beneficial, as to whether people believe he'll be a hit or miss?

jobeenfitz

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Perhaps a poll would be beneficial, as to whether people believe he'll be a hit or miss?

I believe he will be a top player in two or three seasons time, when he matures and cops himself on. I don't think he will be with us past next August unless he starts showing more improvement pronto.

Dublin Spur

SeaDaily wrote: »

Why do you keep harping back to the €30 million price tag as if people in this thread are trying to justify his price? Not one person here has said he was worth that.

Levy obviously thought he was worth it - he has final say on all signings
Yet another disasterous decision

Some will say we should blame Baldini, but who brought this clown into the club ?

You know who !

KingdomYid

SeaDaily wrote: »

Why do you keep harping back to the €30 million price tag as if people in this thread are trying to justify his price? Not one person here has said he was worth that.

I think what Hatch highlights mentioning the 30 million is the incompetence of our DOF who paid this much for Lamela. If you spend 30 million you should be getting the finished product, you don't pay that much for potential. Lamela may come good and he may not but no way is he a top player and does not even look like becoming one at this point in time.

slegs

Was at the Palace game and he was embarrassingly bad. I cant see how this is going to turn around. Hope it does but have a feeling we will sell him for £8m and watch him set the world alight in Spain.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

So you buy a lad for 30m and hope he'll be good after 3 seasons, give it over....

Not exactly no, it's more that you hope he'll be good immediately, but being realistic you think he's more likely to reach full potential at the age of 24 than 21.

It's fairly simple really. Cristiano Ronaldo is a really good example.

Ormus

KingdomYid wrote: »

I think what Hatch highlights mentioning the 30 million is the incompetence of our DOF who paid this much for Lamela. If you spend 30 million you should be getting the finished product, you don't pay that much for potential. Lamela may come good and he may not but no way is he a top player and does not even look like becoming one at this point in time.

Finished products do not join Spurs. They join top clubs.

The only way Spurs can get top players is by speculating and buying them before they become top players.

That's a trial and error, hit n miss business, and always will be.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Finished products do not join Spurs. They join top clubs.

The only way Spurs can get top players is by speculating and buying them before they become top players.

We used to get ready made top players when we had ambition, anyone remember Ossie and Ricky, Gazza, Lineker, Sheringham, Gough, Popescu, Klinsmann, Ginola ?

we're still a big club, we just don't act like one

it's not that we can't buy big - its that we choose not to

there are no risks - our parent company is worth billions - we're very secure

KingdomYid

Ormus wrote: »

Finished products do not join Spurs. They join top clubs.

The only way Spurs can get top players is by speculating and buying them before they become top players.

That's a trial and error, hit n miss business, and always will be.

I agree with what you are saying, therefore we should not have paid 30 million for him

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

We used to get ready made top players when we had ambition, anyone remember Ossie and Ricky, Gazza, Lineker, Sheringham, Gough, Popescu, Klinsmann, Ginola ?

we're still a big club, we just don't act like one

it's not that we can't buy big - its that we choose not to

there are no risks - our parent company is worth billions - we're very secure

Haha, ambition. hilarious. Spurs ambition in the 90s was to be a laughing stock of a club with a few very entertaining players. And they succeeded very well.

I'll grant you there were some very exciting signings, but they were like hanging a chandelier in a prefab.

Sugarlumps

Decent read...

Hopefully though, there’s less of an even split over the treatment of Erik Lamela. The Argentinian’s substitution was sarcastically cheered at half-time and, although the 22 year-old continues to struggle with his maturation, it’s baffling that anyone truly believes that audible derision is any way productive.

Lamela is frustrating. He takes too many touches. He doesn’t release the ball quickly enough. He doesn’t judge attacking situations particularly well. He’s a liability in defence.

Nobody disputes any of that.

But he’s learning the game. Young players improve by making mistakes or giving poor performances and every minute he spends on the pitch is analysed, dissected and then used by the Tottenham technical staff to coach him in a positive direction.

Lamela is not a high-percentage player and he never will be. If Spurs are ever to see a £33m return on their investment, it will because they’re able to find a compromise between his raw ability and their collective philosophy. Their aim here is not to mould him into a formulaic footballer who passes the buck in possession, but a player upon whose shoulders results ultimately sit. Those kind of players are very special and those kind of players take time to build.

It’s a tough balance. So much of Lamela’s game is based on instinct, that not only do Mauricio Pochettino and his staff have to teach him a new set of tactical instructions, but they also have to break-down and rebuild the set of traits which the player’s game has, until now, been built on.

Translate that into a real-life comparable: think about how long it takes to abandon a habit and replace it with something new. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an exercise regime, brushing your teeth with your right hand instead of your left, or the tendency to hold onto a football longer than you should.

It takes time to become embedded.

Maybe there’s some validity to the expectation that his progress would be quicker, but this isn’t as simple as sitting him down in a classroom, telling him what he should be doing, and then assuming that he will follow those instructions to the letter the next time he steps onto the pitch.

Neither, really, is this is a change which can be enacted solely on the training-ground. Part of any player’s development occurs in live situations and in front of fans and, as such, a talent has to be allowed the latitude to make mistakes, to play badly, and to learn from the experience.

Pochettino cannot just hide him away on a practice pitch until he’s ‘ready’, because if he does then that point will never be reached. Development is about learning, but it’s also about exposure.

This is tougher for a Lamela-type than it would be for a more orthodox player. Tottenham paid what they did for him because of his potential to be a match-winner. He’s an expressive talent who is theoretically at his most effective when doing things which are high-risk. This isn’t a central-midfield whose job it is to simply retrieve and recycle the ball, this is a luxury item with whom the margins between brilliant and wasteful are always likely to be minute.

Inevitably, the development phase with someone like that is always likely to be more difficult to tolerate. Lamela is an easy target for fans because he gives the ball away a lot and his inefficiencies are that much more glaring than those of his teammates, but this is a process which he, the fans, and his manager all have to suffer through if they want the long-term pay-off.

Ormus

KingdomYid wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying, therefore we should not have paid 30 million for him

You mean because he looks muck, or because we shouldn't speculate?

I think Spurs have to make risky signings sometimes. When they don't work out they're damaging, but when they do they give us the chance to progress as a club.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Haha, ambition. hilarious. Spurs ambition in the 90s was to be a laughing stock of a club with a few very entertaining players. And they succeeded very well.

I'll grant you there were some very exciting signings, but they were like hanging a chandelier in a prefab.

The 90's wasn't great but we had some great moments, some great individual players and we won 2 cups

What have we got to show for ENIC's time ? 1 cup and one CL qualification

Now we find ourselves back to where we were in 03/04 with a shíte squad and shíte results every week - how can you defend ENIC in the face of the facts ?

Under thier watch they squanderd 120mil on shíte and wouldn't spend a penny on building upon CL qulaification when we had a chance to finally kick on. Everytime it goes títs up we get a new fall guy in the dugout (and / or the boardroom) and yet nothing seems to change on the pitch. All this whilst fans are expected to pay around £50 per game for the previlidge of seeing this embarressment every week.

But I guess we should all be over the moon that the club is a solvent and our average league position is higer than it was under the previous owner (although that won't last if current trend continues)

KingdomYid

Ormus wrote: »

You mean because he looks muck, or because we shouldn't speculate?

I think Spurs have to make risky signings sometimes. When they don't work out they're damaging, but when they do they give us the chance to progress as a club.

I don't think that much money should ever be speculated with, if he was signed for even half that it would be a valid piece of speculation. I hold my hands up and say I never even heard of him before he signed for us but was excited as I thought the price we were paying meant we were getting a top player.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

The 90's wasn't great but we had some great moments, some great individual players and we won 2 cups

What have we got to show for ENIC's time ? 1 cup and one CL qualification

Now we find ourselves back to where we were in 03/04 with a shíte squad and shíte results every week - how can you defend ENIC in the face of the facts ?

Under thier watch they squanderd 120mil on shíte and wouldn't spend a penny on building upon CL qulaification when we had a chance to finally kick on. Everytime it goes títs up we get a new fall guy in the dugout (and / or the boardroom) and yet nothing seems to change on the pitch. All this whilst fans are expected to pay around £50 per game for the previlidge of seeing this embarressment every week.

But I guess we should all be over the moon that the club is a solvent and our average league position is higer than it was under the previous owner (although that won't last if current trend continues)

I simply find it hard to believe you were alive in the 90s if you can't remember what it was like to support Spurs.

You just don't remember.

pleasant Co.

It's a bit of a case that you're damned if you do and damned it you don't with some spurs fans.

Levy, why didn't you spend that extra €5mil instead of letting saviour player X go elsewhere. (Moutinho is probably a good recent example)
Levy, how dare you spend so much money on this player that appears to be a flop.

Ormus

KingdomYid wrote: »

I don't think that much money should ever be speculated with, if he was signed for even half that it would be a valid piece of speculation. I hold my hands up and say I never even heard of him before he signed for us but was excited as I thought the price we were paying meant we were getting a top player.

Fair enough. I believe in speculate to accumulate. We will always stand still if we don't. Kinda like I think Aston Villa have done.

We did the same with Modric, Berbatov and Bale. And we've had some stinkers, such as Bentley and Paulinho.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

I simply find it hard to believe you were alive in the 90s if you can't remember what it was like to support Spurs.

You just don't remember.

I remember alright:

1990 - 3rd
1991 - 8th and FA cup
1992 - 16th
1993 - 8th
1994 - 18th
1995 - 6th
1996 - 7th
1997 - 9th
1998 - 15th
1999 - 10th and League Cup

So that's:
2 cups
3 relegation battles
1 top 4
7 mid-table finishes


ENIC's years:
2001 - 10th
2002 - 10th
2003 - 13th
2004 - 15th
2005 - 10th
2006 - 5th
2007 - 5th
2008 - 12th and League Cup
2009 - 8th
2010 - 4th
2011 - 5th
2012 - 4th
2013 - 5th
2014 - 6th

So that's:
1 trophy
2 relegation battles
2 4ths
3 5ths
the rest are meaningless top half finishes

we peaked under ENIC in 2010/11 and we're now on the slippery slope back to where we started.

genuine question: do you see ENIC turning this around and taking us back into the CL or winning us a cup ?