Albert Quay - New Development

lisasimpson

There could be scope of some apartments inthe rental market.think is look at all the potental family homes that are rented by groups of friends in their 20 evem think about parts of douglas wilton etc where this can be seen .if there were apartments available free up theses houses for family room but the problem is who will invest in apartments nowadays they still arent big in the irish mindset

Subpopulus

cgcsb wrote: »

What people want and what is sustainable/practical are two different things. The market will adjust. If high quality apartments with communal space and facilities are available and priced competitively, people will make the switch.

I'm aware that there are actually many people out there who'd be happy to live in that kind of housing, however the trouble is that the developers have little interest in providing that. In order to develop towns and suburbs, planners are reliant on private sector developers to gather together the cash and build and sell the properties. The developers are generally quite conservative and will play it safe, and will build what they know will sell. Michael O'Flynn was in the examiner a few weeks back saying that planners should 'get down out of their high castles', and plan less apartments and more suburban detached houses. It's not a very competitive market - there's only a few players at the upper end, and demand outstrips supply, so there's little incentive for developers to innovate and try new housing types. If an area is zoned with a very high percentage of apartments, then developers will be very reluctant to touch it as apartments are hard to sell outside of the Greater Dublin Area.

In general the GDA is the exception to most of what I'm saying since people are happy to live in apartments in Dublin if it means living closer to the city centre, and having good transport connections. The other Irish cities have a harder time of it since they don't really have enough mass to encourage large amounts of people to live in dense built-up areas.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not being fatalistic - i'm just trying to highlight the reality of the situation. It's easy to say that if the right kind of houses are there then people will buy them, but getting the right kind of housing there in the first place is a difficulty. In general government bodies have made all of the right moves in terms of pushing for higher densities, permeable urban fabric and interconnected transport, etc., but it's difficult to get developers to play ball with this. Especially now that so many of them are super cagey and risk averse following the crash. It would be interesting to see if some of the big multi-national development companies would enter the Irish market with some fresh thinking and shake up the scene a bit.

KCAccidental

namloc1980 wrote: »

Nothing a bit of engineering can't overcome. Having said that unlikely it will happen as a light rail system. The best we could expect is a grade separated BRT.

that would involve moving the sewerage pipes, which would be very hard. The reason the route was chosen was because it doesn't go near housing.

Cant build any transport infrastructure on top of it either, because it would mean disruption of the service every time the pipes would need maintenance or repair. There's a reason why they move service pipes from under the luas and other light rail/brt systems.

cgcsb

Subpopulus wrote: »

I'm aware that there are actually many people out there who'd be happy to live in that kind of housing, however the trouble is that the developers have little interest in providing that. In order to develop towns and suburbs, planners are reliant on private sector developers to gather together the cash and build and sell the properties. The developers are generally quite conservative and will play it safe, and will build what they know will sell. Michael O'Flynn was in the examiner a few weeks back saying that planners should 'get down out of their high castles', and plan less apartments and more suburban detached houses. It's not a very competitive market - there's only a few players at the upper end, and demand outstrips supply, so there's little incentive for developers to innovate and try new housing types. If an area is zoned with a very high percentage of apartments, then developers will be very reluctant to touch it as apartments are hard to sell outside of the Greater Dublin Area.

In general the GDA is the exception to most of what I'm saying since people are happy to live in apartments in Dublin if it means living closer to the city centre, and having good transport connections. The other Irish cities have a harder time of it since they don't really have enough mass to encourage large amounts of people to live in dense built-up areas.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not being fatalistic - i'm just trying to highlight the reality of the situation. It's easy to say that if the right kind of houses are there then people will buy them, but getting the right kind of housing there in the first place is a difficulty. In general government bodies have made all of the right moves in terms of pushing for higher densities, permeable urban fabric and interconnected transport, etc., but it's difficult to get developers to play ball with this. Especially now that so many of them are super cagey and risk averse following the crash. It would be interesting to see if some of the big multi-national development companies would enter the Irish market with some fresh thinking and shake up the scene a bit.

I understand developers are reluctant, however if there's one thing that will make the private sector behave in a way that society wants it to behave, it's legislative force. Supermarkets didn't volunteer to but a levy on plastic bags, they were forced. Similarly, developers can be forced to only build quality high density housing in urban areas by force, simply ban them from building car dependent semi-d's.

who_me

Pitcairn wrote: »

They were working away on the site on Saturday lowering sections onto it. I think they put in the elevator shafts first and then build the rest around them. That's what they did with the Elysian if I remember correctly.

Yeah, elevator shafts and stairwells first. They're flying up, about 3 floors already.

Subpopulus

cgcsb wrote: »

Supermarkets didn't volunteer to but a levy on plastic bags, they were forced. Similarly, developers can be forced to only build quality high density housing in urban areas by force, simply ban them from building car dependent semi-d's.

Houses are not like plastic bags. Arguments like "ban them from building semi-d's" are simplistic and don't really take into account the nuances of the situation. Government agencies already do about as much as they can to encourage developers to build the sort of housing projects that they want without veering into totalitarian territory.

FrStone

Subpopulus wrote: »

Houses are not like plastic bags. Arguments like "ban them from building semi-d's" are simplistic and don't really take into account the nuances of the situation. Government agencies already do about as much as they can to encourage developers to build the sort of housing projects that they want without veering into totalitarian territory.

Thank you. You can't just force people to live in flats. People seem to dream about moving to the suburbs when they style down and have children.

This idea that we follow all European norms regarding planning and transport is mad! We never look to the US, we should aim to take the best ideas from both Europe and the US. People seem to think Cork is not far off London at times.

Corkblowin

FrStone wrote: »

Thank you. You can't just force people to live in flats. People seem to dream about moving to the suburbs when they style down and have children.

This idea that we follow all European norms regarding planning and transport is mad! We never look to the US, we should aim to take the best ideas from both Europe and the US. People seem to think Cork is not far off London at times.

Not all Europeans want to live in the cities either - its a universal desire to live in a rural / semi-rural area, but also have all the facilities of a city close by!! Its all to do with controlling your environment, and its easier to do that in a detached house than a mid-floor apartment.

Peter Hall tells an anecdote in one of his books about an American sociologist enthralled with the quality of life in Vällingby, Stockholm. High city centre population, good size apartments, public transport and facilities. However on carrying out a survey he discovered most residents would prefer a house in their suburbs to their apartment, whereupon his conclusion was that the result must reflect a flaw in the poll!

It is unfortunate that many policy makers seem to believe that people, given a choice, will inevitably make the ‘wrong’ one - they skip the process of analysing how urban areas actually work to get onto the stage of telling people how they ought to work.

We cannot force people to live in higher density areas, but we can create the environment to encourage them to do so. The old days are gone and no matter what people like Mr O'Flynn say the country cannot continue to be carpeted with semi-d's. But it needs the local authorities to work with the same developers to ensure new areas have buses, parks, drainage etc in place before people move in. It will be a slow process, but we'll get there.

Lambofdave

Mr O Flynn is probably thinking about his land bank at dunkettle house

zetalambda

Lambofdave wrote: »

Mr O Flynn is probably thinking about his land bank at dunkettle house

He has planning permission granted for that, just can't go ahead with it until the Dunkettle interchange is upgraded say ABP.

AugustusMinimus

Could someone roughly point out where the Dunkettle housing development will be ?

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Could someone roughly point out where the Dunkettle housing development will be ?

AugustusMinimus

That is substantial. Dad to see the woods opposite Vienna Woods to go.

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That is substantial. Dad to see the woods opposite Vienna Woods to go.

I know it doesn't look like it but the woods along the river are being retained. It's a long way off anyway as it can't be developed until the Dunkettle interchange is upgraded and the Dunkettle rail P&R is built. Both of those are some way off yet.

Going Strong

One hell of a concrete pouring going on at Albert Quay today. I've passed by twice and it's been cement lorries queued up 6-8 at a time.

thomil

Noticed that myself, and the core is up to the fourth floor from the looks of it. They sure are not letting anything get in the way of the project, it seems.

Douglas Eegit

Can someone grab a few pictures the next time they are going past this development for all the non cork residents out there! Still keen to see Cork develop from far away

who_me

thomil wrote: »

Noticed that myself, and the core is up to the fourth floor from the looks of it. They sure are not letting anything get in the way of the project, it seems.

Sixth floor now by the looks of things (think the elevator shaft is up to the 6th floor, the stairwell is a floor behind). They seem to be working late/through the night some days. Maybe it's a "build it quick before someone post-objects!" thing..

who_me

Corkblowin wrote: »

We cannot force people to live in higher density areas, but we can create the environment to encourage them to do so. The old days are gone and no matter what people like Mr O'Flynn say the country cannot continue to be carpeted with semi-d's. But it needs the local authorities to work with the same developers to ensure new areas have buses, parks, drainage etc in place before people move in. It will be a slow process, but we'll get there.

Also - suitable properties. All the buses, parks, drainage etc. won't count for much if developers keep building poky 2 bedroom apartments, sometimes without lifts, certainly without service lifts, no communal storage areas, often no in-apartment storage, little or no private outdoor space, little or no secure communal outdoor space, etc..

Compare and contrast with "urbanizaciónes" in Spain, where high density developments have secure parking and shared activity areas (gardens/terraces, outdoor tennis / football courts). As long as developers here keep trying to squeeze the last cent out of the available space by building as many small apartments as possible and with minimal or no facilities, then the calls for higher density living - particularly for families - will continue to be ignored. As well they should.

IMO, there are only two acceptable choices here - either regulate (via planning permission) new developments to ensure suitable accommodation for sustainable, long-term, high-density family living is made available. Or else don't regulate the development of detached / semi-detached houses so families can build suitable accommodation where none is available. Regulating one but not the other is a bit hypocritical and ineffective.

Rhys Essien

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Can someone grab a few pictures the next time they are going past this development for all the non cork residents out there! Still keen to see Cork develop from far away

Courtesy of Twitterers.

D'Agger

Fair play Rhys - took a snap on the phone in passing yesterday to put here but it was shocking - rear view mirror taking up half the shot!

Coming along nicely though!

Geogregor

Do I see correctly? The core is being constructed from prefabricates?
I've never seen it before.

xabi

Geogregor wrote: »

Do I see correctly? The core is being constructed from prefabricates?
I've never seen it before.

Thats how they did the Elysian.

Rhys Essien

xabi wrote: »

Thats how they did the Elysian.

You're wrong.

The core/liftshaft of the Elysian was a continuous pour lasting 18 days.It was done by a moving mould known as a slipform.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/hats-off-city-tower-scales-new-heights-20381.html

Rhys Essien

Pic here of Elysian core.

http://www.theelysian.ie/news_articles/lift_shaft.pdf

Milex

I took some new pictures "One Albert Quay" 24.03.2015

I am not allowed to post Links, you have to c/p this into your browsers URL bar:
plus.google.com/photos/115047598269642042222/albums/6129844324792586449?authkey=CLjP5om31rm0Xg

Going Strong

€58m deal to buy unfinished One Albert Quay in Cork

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/euro58m-deal-to-buy-unfinished-one-albert-quay-in-cork-330805.html

parkerpen

Good to hear of confidence in our city. I am just hoping the overheating of the property market is not starting all over again.

Subpopulus

parkerpen wrote: »

I am just hoping the overheating of the property market is not starting all over again.

I don't think it is. In many respects it's still very stagnant, especially for the residential market. There's little or no new residential projects starting, so it looks like it'll be two years or more before there's any new builds coming onto the market in reasonable numbers. Meanwhile, people are holding onto their property in the expectation that they'll get a better price for it in six months or a year, so there's a lot of pent up demand with no outlet. I'd imagine that residential prices will only increase modestly for the next two years...

Milex

New Pictures from the Albert Quay Development:

//goo.gl/photos/bNtQ5izkVucFkZnK8

As I am still below 25 posts, I can't post links, therefore you need to c/p the link, sorry.