Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

emeldc

runawaybishop wrote: »

Nope, they can hand them over.

Are you sure? Has that been confirmed?

runawaybishop

emeldc wrote: »

Are you sure? Has that been confirmed?

Yup, all kosher according to data protection commissioner.

lm01

timmymac11 wrote: »

no the tenants wont be able too see her address that address is only on file for corrospondence

Thanks for the info.

athtrasna wrote: »

The tenants should have gotten a pack as well as the landlord, Allegedly

Not sure if they did or not. Will tell her to ask the agent to follow up on that one.

Sarn wrote: »

No pack here, but the landlord received one and forwarded it on to me. There are no personal details on the website.

Brilliant that's exactly the insight I was looking for. Many thanks.

garhjw

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yup, all kosher according to data protection commissioner.

Yes, I also checked on this as I haven't anything from IW as a ll. None of my tenants received anything either.

ODPC said it is fine to provide names but not PPSNs

Cavey

Today I was paying some rent to my landlord. They asked if I had registered for Irish Water. I said no and that I wasn't planning to. The landlord said they attempted to sign me up themselves (without my knowledge or consent) online but they were not able to. The landlord then strongly advised I rethink my stance on signing up or they would not renew my lease. I am a tenant in this apartment for over 2 years. Are they legally allowed to do this? They claim that if I don't sign up, they will receive my bill and have to pay for it. All I know is that right now would be a terrible time to get evicted. So if these are scare tactics, they are working well...

Anyone that could shed some light on this, would appreciate it greatly thanks.

Chance The Fapper

Cavey wrote: »

Today I was paying some rent to my landlord. They asked if I had registered for Irish Water. I said no and that I wasn't planning to. The landlord said they attempted to sign me up themselves (without my knowledge or consent) online but they were not able to. The landlord then strongly advised I rethink my stance on signing up or they would not renew my lease. I am a tenant in this apartment for over 2 years. Are they legally allowed to do this? They claim that if I don't sign up, they will receive my bill and have to pay for it. All I know is that right now would be a terrible time to get evicted. So if these are scare tactics, they are working well...

Anyone that could shed some light on this, would appreciate it greatly thanks.

If they are registered with the PTRB, then they can prove that it's rented out, and they will not be billed for it. If they are not registered, they will be billed, as they have no proof that they are renting it out. They could in that case register for the unoccupied charge, which is €125 a year iirc.

emeldc

garhjw wrote: »

Yes, I also checked on this as I haven't anything from IW as a ll. None of my tenants received anything either.

ODPC said it is fine to provide names but not PPSNs

So it's ok to provide names of tenants but not PPSN numbers. Is that the official line.

garhjw

emeldc wrote: »

So it's ok to provide names of tenants but not PPSN numbers. Is that the official line.

Yes, I sent a mail to the ODPC and received a response stating name only can be provided.

L1011

You have Part IV rights regardless of lease length with the time you've been there; however I would imagine that if the landlord ends up having even the slightest bit of hassle due to your non-registration (even if they're not liable there is bound to be some level of back and forth paperwork required to prove to IWs satisfaction that its rented; and trouble with the next tenant etc) that they'll absolutely use their ability to terminate without reason after four years.

Seanachai

MYOB wrote: »

You have Part IV rights regardless of lease length with the time you've been there; however I would imagine that if the landlord ends up having even the slightest bit of hassle due to your non-registration (even if they're not liable there is bound to be some level of back and forth paperwork required to prove to IWs satisfaction that its rented; and trouble with the next tenant etc) that they'll absolutely use their ability to terminate without reason after four years.

What do you mean by 'ability to terminate without reason after four years'.

L1011

Seanachai wrote: »

What do you mean by 'ability to terminate without reason after four years'.

The first six months of a second or subsequent Part IV tenancy needs no reason given for termination by the landlord but notice is still required.

Cavey

Thank you for the replies.

I also forgot to mention that I get rent allowance. It's practically a condition that I signup to IW in my scenario.

Just that I expect to not need rent allowance come 1 or 2 years I will be well able to support myself. My main concern is entering into this contract now while I'm somewhat vulnerable. It will be much more difficult to dispute charges in the future if I agree to this now.

So essentially if I do not agree, my landlord may give me notice. How much time do I get to find a new home? I'm aware landlords are making it apart of leases that tenants must sign up to IW so coupled with the lack of places already available. . I may be homeless in a few months time.

Any advice?

L1011

Notice after 2 years is 56 days but I'm not sure that this would be a valid reason - however some leases do have boilerplate sections about ensuring all utilities remain connected and paid for etc.

After 4 years it would be 112 days.

Ogham

Cavey wrote: »

Thank you for the replies.

I also forgot to mention that I get rent allowance. It's practically a condition that I signup to IW in my scenario.

Just that I expect to not need rent allowance come 1 or 2 years I will be well able to support myself. My main concern is entering into this contract now while I'm somewhat vulnerable. It will be much more difficult to dispute charges in the future if I agree to this now.

So essentially if I do not agree, my landlord may give me notice. How much time do I get to find a new home? I'm aware landlords are making it apart of leases that tenants must sign up to IW so coupled with the lack of places already available. . I may be homeless in a few months time.

Any advice?

Just fill in theh water form and all will be fine.

Grandpa Hassan

MYOB wrote: »

Notice after 2 years is 56 days but I'm not sure that this would be a valid reason - however some leases do have boilerplate sections about ensuring all utilities remain connected and paid for etc.

After 4 years it would be 112 days.

That is the case with mine. Registration for the water charge is a specific condition. Failure to register would be a breach in the lease and grounds for termination. I still don't believe that LLs will not get somehow sucked into this, and I want it all as clean as possible

The_Conductor

PeteK* wrote: »

How much were we paying?

From central funding- the equivalent of over 700 Euro per household, per annum.
This fell- when the property taxes (LPT and NPPR) were introduced- back towards an average of 460 Euro per annum- with the county averages skewed as high as 1,600 versus a low of 180 Euro per annum for one of the Dublin councils.

The headache in all of this- is this money was to provide for the provision of water, and emergency repairs. It was not to provide for additional sanitation and treatment plants, replacement of decayed pipework, or the new canal treatment plants. All-in-all- capital works of just under 20 billion are necessary to bring our water network to average international levels.

Keep in mind- we have had rolling water blackouts for most of the past decade- alongside reductions in water in pressure- particularly in the East- because we have refused to spend money on our network.

The elephant in the room- is the fact that it costs over 9 times as much in infrastructure and depreciation to supply water in low density rural areas- as it does in the higher density greater Dublin area- yet, once again, akin to the property tax- the greater Dublin area will be cross-subsidising provision of facilities by the back door for other areas- as it always has done. It would be nice to have this simple fact enumerated and recognised.

The_Conductor

Cavey wrote: »

Today I was paying some rent to my landlord. They asked if I had registered for Irish Water. I said no and that I wasn't planning to. The landlord said they attempted to sign me up themselves (without my knowledge or consent) online but they were not able to. The landlord then strongly advised I rethink my stance on signing up or they would not renew my lease. I am a tenant in this apartment for over 2 years. Are they legally allowed to do this? They claim that if I don't sign up, they will receive my bill and have to pay for it. All I know is that right now would be a terrible time to get evicted. So if these are scare tactics, they are working well...

Anyone that could shed some light on this, would appreciate it greatly thanks.

I was told by Irish Water yesterday that they have associated rental properties with my personal account number and I would receive landlord packs for them before the end of November. If they are not returned completed- I will be held personally responsible for them (none are metered- they will all be the assessed charges- however, no children's allowances etc will apply).

So......... I don't know what they're up to- they don't appear to be consistent- they're certainly threatening landlords with their tenant's bills, in the event that the tenant doesn't register or pay..........

Seanachai

MYOB wrote: »

The first six months of a second or subsequent Part IV tenancy needs no reason given for termination by the landlord but notice is still required.

Okay, thanks. My landlord has turned out to be pretty sympathetic about the charges and is hoping that they collapse. He actually used to work for the government and told all the tenants to play it by ear.

SteelyDanJalapeno

As a tenant that has received nothing at all from IW, should I go to there site and sign up? or just keep waiting for a package?

seems a bit ridiculous if I went to there site, what do the people who dont keep up with current affairs and have not received a package do? Are they expected to randomly find the Irish Water site and sign up or face fines?

Ogham

TiltedBrain wrote: »

As a tenant that has received nothing at all from IW, should I go to there site and sign up? or just keep waiting for a package?

seems a bit ridiculous if I went to there site, what do the people who dont keep up with current affairs and have not received a package do? Are they expected to randomly find the Irish Water site and sign up or face fines?

Each property that has been sent a form has a unique application number and PIN number. It is not just a matter of registering online if no form has been sent - you need the form to get the numbers to register online.

There seem to be a large number of houses where no form has been sent. Looks like if you haven't had a form - they think your house doesn't exist - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-and-non-existent-addresses.html

fisher8181

I have a one bed apartment that I am renting out.
My tenant will be moving out soon so I don't want the hassle of making sure he signs up for Irish water and then that the new tenant does so I was just going to register my name for the apartment and my wife's name in our house.

I know that's not what your supposed to do but are there any pros and cons to doing it that way?

Ogham

fisher8181 wrote: »

I have a one bed apartment that I am renting out.
My tenant will be moving out soon so I don't want the hassle of making sure he signs up for Irish water and then that the new tenant does so I was just going to register my name for the apartment and my wife's name in our house.

I know that's not what your supposed to do but are there any pros and cons to doing it that way?

Cons -
You will pay for the tenant's water bill
You will have to declare that the apt is your main residence (not true)
Your wife will have to declare she is the only adult in the house (not true) and will pay less water charge because of that (if unmetered)


Pros - ??

Seanachai

If a tenant or a landlord even registers for the water charges and it turns out that they collapse early next year would they get a refund on the money that they would have paid already?.

Grandpa Hassan

Seanachai wrote: »

If a tenant or a landlord even registers for the water charges and it turns out that they collapse early next year would they get a refund on the money that they would have paid already?.

Unlikely. But equally unlikely is that water charges disappear. IW might be abolished, or at least get significantly restructured. But the charges won't be going anywhere.

moxin

Ogham wrote: »

Each property that has been sent a form has a unique application number and PIN number. It is not just a matter of registering online if no form has been sent - you need the form to get the numbers to register online.

There seem to be a large number of houses where no form has been sent. Looks like if you haven't had a form - they think your house doesn't exist - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-and-non-existent-addresses.html

That's only half of it. They sent out forms to the wrong addresses using out of date info. In my case after phoning them as to where my pack is, it was sent to one of my previous 5 addresses(they don't know which one!)

Due to the scale of the mishap, you have loads of people ringing jamming the lines looking for that application number and PIN number.

pwurple

Era, I've given up.

I actaully think water charges are fair and should be implemented... in fact they should have never been taken away in that election buying stunt previously.

However, my tenants haven't received a pack. I haven't received one for my own home. My husbands parents don't have one, my brothers didn't receive one. I've spent a few hours on hold, only to be told, call back in another few weeks if it doesn't arrive.

The thing is, I don't think any of the properties I mention above are going to be on their databases. The tenants are above businesses whch pays rates already. My own house was built in the garden of a bigger house, and we share the main feed off the road, so I don't think that's going to be on the grid either. The others all also live above businesses, except for one, where their address is Their Name, townland, county... ie non-unique.


It's going to be almost impossible to implement something like this, without a national set of postcodes or a database of addresses. That should have been done first. We are like a developing country in regards to maps and addressing. It's nuts, and affects so much of what we do. Getting a phone line into my house when we moved in was torture, let alone getting anything delivered. And it's not like I live in the sticks, this is city center.

Gah, I dunno. I'll let Irish water settle down a bit, and try again next year maybe. It's a right mess at the moment.

Seanachai

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Unlikely. But equally unlikely is that water charges disappear. IW might be abolished, or at least get significantly restructured. But the charges won't be going anywhere.

So you actually think that they'd get rid of IW thinking ( falsely ) that this is the main issue that people are pissed off about and then try to keep the charges?. I hope they do try that if only it means that they'll have gotten rid of themselves!. I think that some of these guys are either seriously misreading the public mood or they know what the crux of the issue is and are just ignoring it. Like that odious Alex White guy framing the issue as if the problem is we weren't given a spoonful of sugar with the medicine!. I know people who I never thought in a million years I would see using civil disobedience refusing to register or pay for the water charges. It's a really promising sign imo.

The way in which IW have behaved is disgraceful but leaving aside the money wastage, bonuses etc I still think the same amount of people would have turned up to the recent march even without the controversy. This is about an intense rage towards a government that is bleeding people dry and the water charge is just the straw that broke the camels back. If IW top brass were paid €30 k and did an excellent job in rolling out the 'project' as Alex White calls it I still wouldn't register.

fisher8181

will irish water be able to liaise with revenue or the PRTB so check if an individual is renting out a house and liable to pay tax on the rent?

Paulw

fisher8181 wrote: »

will irish water be able to liaise with revenue or the PRTB so check if an individual is renting out a house and liable to pay tax on the rent?

No, there is nothing in place for IW to communicate with the Revenue nor PRTB.

monkey8

Paulw wrote: »

No, there is nothing in place for IW to communicate with the Revenue nor PRTB.

Nothing in place, but that doesn't mean that its not going to happen.
Would not trust them to not share that info