Numbers up Gerry

Howard Juneau

No

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed. I dislike the notion that my views are due to ignorance of the facts, however.

I never mentioned ignorance of the facts.

Rabelais

No

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed. I dislike the notion that my views are due to ignorance of the facts, however.

How did 'disappearing' people contribute to the overarching agenda of the PIRA?

yizorselves

BNMC wrote: »

Gerry has the whitest teeth I've ever seen.

Just his top row, got the regular auld fella teeth going on at the bottom

Untouchable Peasant

Nodin wrote: »

I also supported the PIRA campaign and believed then (and still now) that it was - overall- justified.

Deliberately targeting innocent people in large numbers (such as planting bombs in busy Pubs) can never be justified.

LordSutch

No

My name is URL wrote: »

Little Willem is always by his side

Busted Flat was replying to me, so what does that^ mean?

awec

No

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Id be amazed if there were SF supporters in the north who dient know mary lou or pearse doherty. the type of person who wouldnt know them is probably the type of person who doesnt know, or care, who any politicians are

I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if there are loads of SF voters who haven't a clue who they are.

Nodin

Rabelais wrote: »

How did 'disappearing' people contribute to the overarching agenda of the PIRA?

Because informers undermine operations and lead to PIRA members being beaten, killed and arrested, their families targeted etc and so on. I would have thought that fairly obvious.

Happyman42

Rabelais wrote: »

I'm aware of the whole sordid story. I'm asking you what was shown this evening did for the cause of Irish self-determination?

There where snatches of information about training and recruitment and how they built an organisation free of touts that where quite interesting. The path taken by SF was a dangerous one but ultimately it has proved to have been the correct one. Some of the old guard seem bitter that the guns where put away.

delthedriver

No

BNMC wrote: »

Gerry has the whitest teeth I've ever seen.

Dazzling!!!!!

Crooked Jack

awec wrote: »

Got any proof that she was a tout as you alleged earlier in the thread?

This "where's your proof" is such nonsense. Attempts to completely side step the issues, nothing more.

I didnt allege anything, i merely questioned those who were so adamantly sticking to the word of hughes and price when it suited them but ignoring the bits they didnt like

Tramps Like Us

K-9 wrote: »

So we've an opinion from the ex police ombudsman who would know far more than any of us and have access to information unseen, Jean McConville wasn't a tout.

However she then utterly discredits herself by saying that McConville was killed for being a protestant from east Belfast and not "one of them". McConville was the mother of an IRA prisoner. A "pow". And this was widely known to the IRA (obviously). This does not compute, and is, plainly put, utter nonsense.

We've evidence from an IRA hunger striker who while I didn't like his political beliefs, was always consistent and suffered huge physical pain because of resultant physical damage to his body because of his commitment to Republicanism.

We've a revered Republican Billy McKee, seen as a legendary figure and almost was a one man vigilante force against the RUC and B Specials when IRA stood for "I Ran Away" in 1969 Belfast, with barely a gun in its armoury and any they did have, were relics from the 50's Border Campaign.

Both of whom hate SF. Although I was glad to see McKee looking well, especially for his age. (95 I think?) Last I heard of him was that some (complete and utter morons they'd have to be) burgled his house.

We've journalist interviews with Republican sources who understandably can't go public.

Can these be believed, especially when they say that one of disappeared from Crossmaglen was killed for hanging around a town square? This is south Armagh, Bandit country were the IRA openly operated, they wouldn't have (and didn't) cared if anyone saw them do anything because the vast majority of the
community supported them. Have you ever been there? This "source" seems made up to me especially when they come out with rubbish like that.

I know the case of Nairic, strange character and not a case I'd be highlighting here because well, that would be political spin. You can't wash away what happened just by bringing up Nairic.

But there was no mention of him(which I heard), which was a bit strange but he was a grade A scumbag whose elimination was o loss to society. But he was one of the disappeared (why I don't know that puzzles me).

SF is in Government in N.I., could well be here soon, senior members are coming under intense scrutiny exactly because of that, that's normal politics, not the shadow world of no go areas, IRA court marshals and keeping people quiet through intimidation. I can't see Adams lasting much longer as leader, this maybe old news for those interested in N.I. issues but along with questions he has to answer about his brother, I could see Pearse or Mary Lou leading them into the next election.

This is all old news simply recycled, Adams, unless he has health trouble will lead SF into the next election and probably halfway towards the next before stepping back.

We have to come to the conclusion that people either think Adams was in the IRA and don't care, or think he was and are horrified to some degree by the whole thing and wont vote. However there is not one person who would suddenly stop voting for SF or Adams if he said tomorrow that he was in the IRA.

As a republican leader he along with others have a collective responsibility for everything the IRA did so whether or not he specifically ordered x or y doesnt really make a difference unless it was a solo run. However if he was the Belfast commander I find it very doubtful that he was in charge of any independent counter intelligence unit of unknowns. It would be a conflict.

This is all old news, people can see SF moving beyond violence for years now. The outrage about the IRA is getting quieter and quieter and is coming from less and less people

Nodin

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I never mentioned ignorance of the facts.

Then what did you mean by
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87348549&postcount=391

Sunnyisland

No

BNMC wrote: »

Gerry has the whitest teeth I've ever seen.

There shergars

fasttalkerchat

No

K-9 wrote: »

They were a police/army force in no go areas that sectarian security forces couldn't go into.

That doesn't mean they don't have questions to answer over decisions they made.

I recently made the point in another thread that state forces bear a higher responsibilty level when it comes to shoot to kill, stuff like that. John Stalker wrote an excellent book about his experience of the RUC in early 80's N.I., he was an English Chief constable sent over to N.I. to investigate a series of suspected murders by security forces

The intimidation he received was unbelievable, was eventually taken of the case but he always admired the RUC officers who touted on what went on, at great personal risk from other RUC special branch officers.

Must be 20 years since I read that book, I never thought then that I'd be reminded of the same tactics about the IRA and SF, never mind how far we've come in those 2 decades. As they say power corrupts, very few politicians resist it at some level, John Hume the stand out individual in the last 45 years of fighting for Nationalism, Adams is starting to look Bertieesque.

I don't see where character assassination of Adams will get us. If it turns out that he is lying about everything... **** it... if it turns out that he's a British agent so what?? Where do we go from there? Do we go back to war?
Personally I'd rather not know.
We all have followed the Adams route this far and there is no going back now.

Howard Juneau

No

Nodin wrote: »

Then what did you mean by
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87348549&postcount=391

There is more that one meaning to the word aware, and your dismissive tone in your post leads me to believe I am correct.

Rabelais

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

There where snatches of information about training and recruitment and how they built an organisation free of touts that where quite interesting. The path taken by SF was a dangerous one but ultimately it has proved to have been the correct one. Some of the old guard seem bitter that the guns where put away.

The correct one, how? How does taking someone from their home, torturing them and killing them further the course of their cause? How did Kingsmill further the cause of this project?

K-9

My name is URL wrote: »

Go on so.. outline the accusations made directly against Adams in relation to the disappearance of anyone..

I'm pretty sure the premise of the 'documentary', and certainly of this thread; was to show him to be directly responsible for their disappearance. So what new, actually admissible evidence has been put forward to support that?

In your own time, now.

You're area asking for evidence about the most successful secretive private army in 1970/80's Europe, and there was a few. The programme tonight had a few ex IRA sources, you're looking for the impossible, the Holy Grail.

Nodin

Howard Juneau wrote: »

There is more that one meaning to the word aware, and your dismissive tone in your post leads me to believe I am correct.

It was a war. Harsh things were required, mistakes made, crimes committed. If you don't believe the war was justified, then you won't believe what occurred in it was justified.

awec

No

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I didnt allege anything, i merely questioned those who were so adamantly sticking to the word of hughes and price when it suited them but ignoring the bits they didnt like

Like you? :pac:

Nodin

Rabelais wrote: »

The correct one, how? How does taking someone from their home, torturing them and killing them further the course of their cause? ,..............

This was explained to you earlier.

Rabelais

No

Nodin wrote: »

It was a war. Harsh things were required, mistakes made, crimes committed. If you don't believe the war was justified, then you won't believe what occurred in it was justified.

Rabelais wrote: »

How did 'disappearing' people contribute to the overarching agenda of the PIRA?

Can you get back to me on this one? Cheers.

technocrat

awec wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if there are loads of SF voters who haven't a clue who they are.

+1

There not really a political party with feasible policies but more a reactionary movement that mobilise against water charges, property tax etc.

Sunnyisland

No

comewatmay wrote: »

Whether Gerry is involved or not will probably never be truly revealed. The most important issue this documentry raised was the fact that the organisation in question are evil callous scum

Do you think there related to the founding fathers of this state ?

In August 1919 the I.R.A.’s East Clare Brigade, issued a proclamation against spies which warned:

“Whereas – It has come to our notice that certain persons have been acting as spies for the enemy and giving information to enemy police … Any person found guilty of infringing this order will be tried by courts-martial and shot at sight.” [20]




Tom Barry’s 3rd West Cork Brigade of the I.R.A. executed fifteen suspected spies during the War of Independence, of whom a majority of nine were Catholic and a minority of six were Protestant. The three suspected spies executed by the I.R.A. during the War of Independence in Galway were all Catholics; as were all seven suspected spies executed by the I.R.A.

In an old cemetery outside the village of Knockraha, where the IRA used a medieval vault, nicknamed Sing Sing, as a holding cell. Most of those held there were later marched to a nearby bog, known as The Rea, where they were shot and buried. O’Halpin estimates there could be anywhere from 30 to 90 people buried in the bog.

People when it suits have very short memories, including Gerry Adams.

rockatansky

No

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Id be amazed if there were SF supporters in the north who dient know mary lou or pearse doherty. the type of person who wouldnt know them is probably the type of person who doesnt know, or care, who any politicians are

More so Pearse Doherty I would assume if anything just from being from Donegal. If Gerry Adams was to step down in the near future (which I don't believe he will) I would imagine that whoever replaced him would need to be someone who has come through the struggle. I can't exactly see mainstream Irish Republicanism united under the leadership of Mary Lou McDonald.

Crooked Jack

Rabelais wrote: »

The correct one, how? How does taking someone from their home, torturing them and killing them further the course of their cause? How did Kingsmill further the cause of this project?

This is just going to descend into the same old sh1te. kingsmill? Why is that relevant? Kingsmill was carried out without army council authority at a time when south armagh lived in fear of the glenanne gang. As for jean mcconville, Wether she was or she wasnt, the fact is the IRA believed she was a tout. pretty clear how killing a tout would further the IRA cause

Nodin

Rabelais wrote: »

Can you get back to me on this one? Cheers.

It would be nice if you tried to follow the thread.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87348758&postcount=430

fasttalkerchat

No

Rabelais wrote: »

The correct one, how? How does taking someone from their home, torturing them and killing them further the course of their cause? How did Kingsmill further the cause of this project?

Touts were punished severely to make sure no one would do it again lightly.

What happened at Kingsmill was a tit for tat killing that did nothing to further the political cause.

Rabelais

No

Nodin wrote: »

This was explained to you earlier.

I must have missed it. Can you quote it?

Busted Flat.

No

K-9 wrote: »

You're area asking for evidence about the most successful secretive private army in 1970/80's Europe, and there was a few. The programme tonight had a few ex IRA sources, you're looking for the impossible, the Holy Grail.

It does not bode well for a Moderator on Boards to have such a bigoted view on such a crucial subject, where does any poster stand with a contradictory point of view.

Nodin

Rabelais wrote: »

I must have missed it. Can you quote it?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87348758&postcount=430