Numbers up Gerry

Crooked Jack

D1stant wrote: »

So you didn't see the documentary. Then why are you on this thread?

All you ever seem to do is ask questions of people in this smug pseudo-Socratic style

Its not clever. its not nice and it doesn't contribute anything.

Yeah Nodin, stop questioning their grand, sweeping, foundationless statements. you'll be after proof next

Femme_Fatale

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yep when you're an Irish person. Why renounce your nationality? Do you feel insecure? Inferior? Aw...

rockatansky

No

I don't get why people keep bringing up Pearse or Mary Lou as the next leader, would this not be seen as moving the leadership down to Dublin and away from Belfast, this giving dissidents a chance to become more vocal in the north?

Maybe I'm wrong but I would have thought maximising the SF vote in the north would be a priority?

Happyman42

Rabelais wrote: »

Can you elucidate on what was shown in tonight's show that contributed to our evolution as a nation?

There was a whole lot of other stuff going on in NI at the time, to take it all out of that context and focus on the operations of one group in an attempt to assasinate the character of one man 40 years later is not going to give you an understanding of our evolution.

Nodin

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I very much doubt you are aware.

Why is this?

Howard Juneau

No

Nodin wrote: »

Why is this?

I cannot answer to your own particular failings

fasttalkerchat

No

LordSutch wrote: »

If I had been a Northern Nationalist voter during the troubles, I would have voted SDLP. John Hume was da'man with the big kahunas, with not a shot fired or a person murdered by his Nationalist Party movement. Big respect to him (and Mallon).

Adams is tainted.

The SDLP was never going to take on the brits or even protect areas from loyalists. They failed for the same reason the Officials lost ground.
When it came down to it, at least with SF you had a chance of success even if they did grind to today's slow progress short of the mark.

Crooked Jack

There was nothing new on the show tonight and a lot of their "revelations" seemed to be inferred by the the show makers themselves from things that were only half said.

Fred Swanson

No

This post has been deleted.

hotmail.com

rockatansky wrote: »

I don't get why people keep bringing up Pearse or Mary Lou as the next leader, would this not be seen as moving the leadership down to Dublin and away from Belfast, this giving dissidents a chance to become more vocal in the north?

Maybe I'm wrong but I would have thought maximising the SF vote in the north would be a priority?

Having a Southern leader could damage their popularity in the North. I presume very few people in the North has heard of Mary Lou or Pearse Doherty.

Rabelais

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

There was a whole lot of other stuff going on in NI at the time, to take it all out of that context and focus on the operations of one group in an attempt to assasinate the character of one man 40 years later is not going to give you an understanding of our evolution.

I'm aware of the whole sordid story. I'm asking you what was shown this evening did for the cause of Irish self-determination?

Buzz84

No

So people believe Brendan Hughes when he said it was Adams who ordered her death but don't believe him when they say she was a tout.

awec

No

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Yeah Nodin, stop questioning their grand, sweeping, foundationless statements. you'll be after proof next

Got any proof that she was a tout as you alleged earlier in the thread?

This "where's your proof" is such nonsense. Attempts to completely side step the issues, nothing more.

Nodin

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I cannot answer to your own particular failings

I'm fully aware of the "disappeared". I also supported the PIRA campaign and believed then (and still now) that it was - overall- justified.

Happyman42

LordSutch wrote: »

And even if she was, she was informing against the PIRA, which to my way of thinking was a good thing.

Waits for IRA supporter backlash, followed by torrents of abuse accusations of being a west brit, etc etc etc yeah yeah yeah . . .

If I had been a Northern Nationalist voter during the troubles, I would have voted SDLP. John Hume was da'man with the big kahunas, with not a shot fired or a person murdered by his Nationalist Party movement. Big respect to him (and Mallon).

Adams is tainted.

The SDLP where not and never where in a position to solve the conflict because they weren't involved in it. They are now in the position they should be in, now that SF are not shackled by government restraints of one kind or another.

My name is URL

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I say the same whenever some girl asks me about my ginger pubes

cloudatlas

No

So the press have access to the Boston College archives? I thought it was difficult to gain access?

awec

No

Buzz84 wrote: »

So people believe Brendan Hughes when he said it was Adams who ordered her death but don't believe him when they say she was a tout.

I believe both.

Her being a tout (factual or not) makes the incident no less abhorrent in my eyes.

Howard Juneau

No

Nodin wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the "disappeared". I also supported the PIRA campaign and believed then (and still now) that it was - overall- justified.

And that is where you & I disagree.

Busted Flat.

No

LordSutch wrote: »

And even if she was, she was informing against the PIRA, which to my way of thinking was a good thing.

Waits for IRA supporter backlash, followed by torrents of abuse accusations of being a west brit, etc etc etc yeah yeah yeah . . .

If I had been a Northern Nationalist voter during the troubles, I would have voted SDLP. John Hume was da'man with the big kahunas, with not a shot fired or a person murdered by his Nationalist Party movement. Big respect to him (and Mallon).

Adams is tainted.

Obviously you have a major problem with reality. But then again you are not on your own.

Lapin

No

The closing question for Adams tonight should have been -

"Are you willing to undergo a lie detector test to quell the rumours surrounding your involvement once and for all"?

His response should then have been the final scene before the closing credits.

Cienciano

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

There is nothing new in this program - Gerry aint going anywhere and SF are going up in the polls.

And we're supposed to think you have SFs and republicans best interest in mind when you say get rid of Adams?

Of course. You seriously are that reluctant to say anything negative about Adams and Sinn Fein that you think it's Gerry Adams charm and ledership skills that are giving Sinn Fein a boost in the polls?
It's nothing to do with Fianna Fail destroying the country, Fianna Gael taxing us till we can't take it any more, then taxing us more and not seeming to give a shít about us, and Labour selling it's soul? Nah, it's not that, it's Gerrys leadership skills and amazing economic policies :rolleyes:

Nodin

Howard Juneau wrote: »

And that is where you & I disagree.

Indeed. I dislike the notion that my views are due to ignorance of the facts, however.

rockatansky

No

hotmail.com wrote: »

Having a Southern leader could damage their popularity in the North. I presume very few people in the North has heard of Mary Lou or Pearse Doherty.

I would have thought that myself. Gerry Kelly?

BNMC

Gerry has the whitest teeth I've ever seen.

K-9

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I answered yes to the poll. It was well known that Mrs. McConville had come up against the republican movement in the past and given Adams' position within the movement he could well have known immediately before she was lifted.

I think the hysteria around this one woman is too much. After all if it was a single man, most would accept that he would be dealt with like all touts.

We should be looking at the wider issue of how the IRA took it upon themselves to lay down the law in republican areas. The problem for some is that West Belfast would have really gone to ****e without them. Look at the growing drugs problem, joy-riders anti-social behaviour etc. I suppose its easy to criticise looking back but some forget to see that there was no law and order. The local provos dealt with problems for the people.

They were a police/army force in no go areas that sectarian security forces couldn't go into.

That doesn't mean they don't have questions to answer over decisions they made.

I recently made the point in another thread that state forces bear a higher responsibilty level when it comes to shoot to kill, stuff like that. John Stalker wrote an excellent book about his experience of the RUC in early 80's N.I., he was an English Chief constable sent over to N.I. to investigate a series of suspected murders by security forces

The intimidation he received was unbelievable, was eventually taken of the case but he always admired the RUC officers who touted on what went on, at great personal risk from other RUC special branch officers.

Must be 20 years since I read that book, I never thought then that I'd be reminded of the same tactics about the IRA and SF, never mind how far we've come in those 2 decades. As they say power corrupts, very few politicians resist it at some level, John Hume the stand out individual in the last 45 years of fighting for Nationalism, Adams is starting to look Bertieesque.

awec

No

Lapin wrote: »

The closing question for Adams tonight should have been -

"Are you willing to undergo a lie detector test to quell the rumours surrounding your involvement once and for all"?

His response should then have been the final scene before the closing credits.

With the Eastenders soundtrack? :pac:

Dum dum dum, dum dum dum dum dum...

Nodin

Lapin wrote: »

The closing question for Adams tonight should have been -

"Are you willing to undergo a lie detector test to quell the rumours surrounding your involvement once and for all"?

His response should then have been the final scene before the closing credits.

Followed by a brief montage of scenes from next weeks show.....

My name is URL

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Obviously you have a major problem with reality. But then again you are not on your own.

Little Willem is always by his side

Crooked Jack

hotmail.com wrote: »

Having a Southern leader could damage their popularity in the North. I presume very few people in the North has heard of Mary Lou or Pearse Doherty.

Id be amazed if there were SF supporters in the north who dient know mary lou or pearse doherty. the type of person who wouldnt know them is probably the type of person who doesnt know, or care, who any politicians are