Saorview Connect

FreudianSlippers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thanks .... but that seems to say it is easy to disprove a false claim of copyright ownership, yet the owner is not generally known/registered?

If you create something, you know you created it. I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make here - that if you can't identify the owner of copyright that there is no copyright? Copyright is automatic - if you see it in public, it's covered by copyright regardless of whether you can identify the owner or not.

How then does a company ensure they are not leaving themselves open to a copyright infringement suit before they go to market with a new product?

Physical products are not covered by copyright. You're thinking of Patents which are registered.

In the case of copyright, if a company is doing its due diligence they will know if their copyrightable product is infringing on something else that pre-dates it.

:rolleyes: We could have done without the ad homimen attack!
Maybe I should not have asked questions.

There was no ad hominem

Johnboy1951

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

.....

Physical products are not covered by copyright. You're thinking of Patents which are registered.

No, I am thinking of data, not hardware and not some specifically written software either.

I am failing to understand how such data, in raw form (not including any proprietary/copyrighted method of display of that data etc), can be copyrighted.

It is the data for display in the EPG which is under discussion.
Is that data copyrightable?

icdg

Look, I appreciate this is an interesting point, and the lack of the seven day EPG is a major flaw in the Saorview Connect product, which is why I’ve let this tangent roll on a bit. But it’s now in danger of derailing the thread completely. It’s suffice to say that it’s well established that TV listings can be and are copyright (see the ECJ judgement in RTE v. Commission Case 241/91) In fact johnboy1951 started a thread about it a few months ago in which we discussed it throughly at the time.

I’m not saying it’s off topic but maybe one for a seperate thread

lsjmhar

You might as well close the thread completely then as this is simply a Saorview box with two player apps. The player apps regularly stall (I am using ethernet connection using FTTH!!!!). The box crashes regularly when trying to populate sat channels. Putting it in simple language, they have made a dogs b----x of this box!!!

Johnboy1951

icdg wrote: »

Look, I appreciate this is an interesting point, and the lack of the seven day EPG is a major flaw in the Saorview Connect product, which is why I’ve let this tangent roll on a bit. But it’s now in danger of derailing the thread completely. It’s suffice to say that it’s well established that TV listings can be and are copyright (see the ECJ judgement in RTE v. Commission Case 241/91) In fact johnboy1951 started a thread about it a few months ago in which we discussed it throughly at the time.

I’m not saying it’s off topic but maybe one for a seperate thread

You might consider moving the somewhat OT posts to their own thread?

STB.

Sam Russell wrote: »

This thread is being dragged off topic.

I have it on good authority that RTE have said they will not implement 7 day epg for satellite channels. They state that it is because it would be seen as copyright infringement - or could be- and cannot be seen to be involved in a rights issue of any complexion as they are the state broadcaster.

They are not going down that road.

Well you may have it on good authority, that does not mean its true. I'd strongly suspect this is as something as petty as someone within rte making the decision to avoid organised competition. Again it was not meant to be an RTEcentric box for pushing RTE playback services, it was meant to be a Saorview product in Free to Air land. Free to Air as an alternative to pay is not viable unless there is plenty of content. Thats why basic supported combination boxes is vital to the non pay tv market.

There is no copyright infringement, the IEPG data (like the signal!) is broadcast unencrypted into another jurisdiction. Using a closed software system on a FTA box was a stupid idea. The development costs came from where ?? The Humax community in the UK have access to the software on those boxes and many tweaked versions exist.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is the data for display in the EPG which is under discussion.
Is that data copyrightable?

No, especially when its not even meant to be in the jurisdiction. The data and signals blanket cover Ireland, that's not overspill. The epg data is available just like the signal free to air.

Tigerandahalf

I have the boxing recorded on tg4 tonight.
I notice I am able to watch the recording from the start despite it still recording. Quite handy.
I don't think you can do that on freesat.

Gerry Wicklow

You can also do that on a linux box. You can even watch a recording as it's being made, stop watching it and the box will resume playback of the recording from where you left.

tsue921i8wljb3

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I have the boxing recorded on tg4 tonight.
I notice I am able to watch the recording from tje start despite it still recording. Quite handy.
I don't think you can do that on freesat.

Yes you can. At least on the HDR-1000S that I have.

tsue921i8wljb3

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

You can also do that on a linux box. You can even watch a recording as it's being made, stop watching it and the box will resume playback of the recording from where you left.

Humax Freesat boxes do this also.

Tigerandahalf

Lincoln Important Syllable wrote: »

Yes you can. At least on the HDR-1000S that I have.

Ok maybe so. I must check it out again sometime.

Johnboy1951

Sam Russell wrote:


This thread is being dragged off topic.

I have it on good authority that RTE have said they will not implement 7 day epg for satellite channels. They state that it is because it would be seen as copyright infringement - or could be- and cannot be seen to be involved in a rights issue of any complexion as they are the state broadcaster.

They are not going down that road.

STB. wrote: »

Well you may have it on good authority, that does not mean its true. I'd strongly suspect this is as something as petty as someone within rte making the decision to avoid organised competition. Again it was not meant to be an RTEcentric box for pushing RTE playback services, it was meant to be a Saorview product in Free to Air land. Free to Air as an alternative to pay is not viable unless there is plenty of content. Thats why basic supported combination boxes is vital to the non pay tv market.

There is no copyright infringement, the IEPG data (like the signal!) is broadcast unencrypted into another jurisdiction. Using a closed software system on a FTA box was a stupid idea. The development costs came from where ?? The Humax community in the UK have access to the software on those boxes and many tweaked versions exist.

Maybe it is historical. RTÉ have been bed-fellows with BBC & ITV in controlling the TV listings, so it might be as simple as not wanting 'to upset the apple cart'.

Johnboy1951 wrote:

It is the data for display in the EPG which is under discussion.
Is that data copyrightable?

No, especially when its not even meant to be in the jurisdiction. The data and signals blanket cover Ireland, that's not overspill. The epg data is available just like the signal free to air.

I suspect you are correct (even believe it) but I have not had a really definitive statement on the matter from a legal professional which might help assure me.

I have also wondered what effect a 'hard Brexit' might have on the situation.

This all really raises the question why have we not seen a combo box that does 7-day EPG on Satellite?
I see posts about a Sat receiver designed in Ireland (Borc I think) so it is not as if similar has never been done.

STB.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suspect you are correct (even believe it) but I have not had a really definitive statement on the matter from a legal professional which might help assure me.

I have also wondered what effect a 'hard Brexit' might have on the situation.

This all really raises the question why have we not seen a combo box that does 7-day EPG on Satellite?

I see posts about a Sat receiver designed in Ireland (Borc I think) so it is not as if similar has never been done.

I also suspect I may be right too. Did RTE not want to be in a combined channel list with the UK stations ? Why ? Ratings slip perhaps ?

RTE were simply were not interested in satellite whatsoever. This box was all about Metaphor's freetime design.

There was a time that the only limitation to 7 day epg was the flash memory available on boxes which is why the off the shelf Technomate boxes downloaded it to a usb stick. Now every E2 box does it from OTA or hard coded online scraper sources like Rytec .

If 7 day epg was incorporated from the open broadcast source, nothing would happen. Grabbing the 7 day epg being openly broadcast is nothing compared with swamping the country with these services.

FRIENDO

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I have the boxing recorded on tg4 tonight.
I notice I am able to watch the recording from the start despite it still recording. Quite handy.
I don't think you can do that on freesat.

Yes you can, no problem on my humax foxsat Freesat hdr from 2009, let's you pause, rewind, forward and catch up on live play

Tigerandahalf

This is what may be coming to the saorview connect platform with the embedded player..... when it eventually happens.
.....
NEW RTÉ PLAYER
Your destination for great TV and Video – Live and on-demand
Discover something great to watch every time you use RTÉ Player. Explore Box Sets, RTÉ Player Originals and all your RTÉ TV favourites on the fully reloaded RTÉ Player app for Android

DISCOVER BRAND NEW CONTENT
You asked, and we listened. Browse brand new shows on RTÉ Player including hit US dramas Boss, Graves and Swedish Dicks. Or in the mood for some nostalgia, check out cult classics Dawson’s Creek, Bachelor’s Walk and Raw.

Stuck in commuter traffic, discover our playlists and relive the best bits of your favourite shows. From the 20 greatest moments from Love/Hate to those magical moments where Dermot Bannon turns people’s houses into dream homes in Room to Improve.

RTÉ Player Originals are our brand new shorts, ranging on average from 3-12 minutes, these little gems are perfect for watching on your mobile, on your lunchbreak or before bed.

LIVE STREAMING & LIVE RE-START
Watch RTÉ One, RTÉ2 and RTÉ News Now live wherever and whenever you want
We’ve added RTÉjr live streaming. Your kids can now enjoy fun shows in a safe space
Two new exclusive channels streaming RTÉ Archives and RTÉ Food
Live restart - A great new feature that allows you to rewind back to the goal and rewatch the celebrations.

KIDS MODE
Set parental pins to protect your children from shows aimed at a Mature Audience (MA)

IRISH SIGN LANGUAGE (ISL)
Set your preferences so you can watch shows with in-vision Irish Sign Language (ISL)

AUDIO DESCRIPTION
Set your preferences so you can watch shows with an audio description (AD)

SEARCH
Search for the title you want to watch in our Find Section.

CHROMECAST
The RTÉ Player App supports Chromecast so you can cast to your big screen using your Smart TV.

SOCIAL SHARING
Social sharing features allow you to share programmes. You can browse programmes by name, category, date and latest. You can save programmes as a favourite and pick up on a programme where you last viewed.

The RTÉ Player App uses streaming technology which means that you must be connected to the Internet in order to watch programmes. The app will automatically adjust video quality based on the speed of your WiFi connection.

We hope you enjoy using RTÉ Player.
......

Tigerandahalf

The restart live tv is a feature of the iplayer on the humax freesat, a very handy feature.

It won't be on virgin as they don't have their player on the Connect box yet.

I'd be surprised if they don't add their player. They'd be losing out on a lot of potential virgin player viewers.


With the new player app available and allowing one to stream rte 1 and 2 some people may be tempted not to bother with a saorview box, especially if they only view a small amount of stuff.

I do notice though that many tg4 live sport events are not live on the app, e.g. the pro14. Though the boxing was live on the tg4 playerthe last night.

AngryLips

Does anyone know a retailer in the Dublin area or online that have the Connect box in stock? Everywhere I’ve tried is sold out or not appearing to stock them even though they’re listed as an official retailer

decor58

AngryLips wrote:

Does anyone know a retailer in the Dublin area or online that have the Connect box in stock? Everywhere I’ve tried is sold out or not appearing to stock them even though they’re listed as an official retailer

Power city appear to have them in stock.

The Cush

AngryLips wrote: »

Does anyone know a retailer in the Dublin area or online that have the Connect box in stock? Everywhere I’ve tried is sold out or not appearing to stock them even though they’re listed as an official retailer

50+ in stock -
https://powercity.ie/product/DXD7025

AngryLips

Just bought one of these ...does anyone know how long it takes to boot up for the first time? It's been stuck on boot for nearly 30 minutes now and there's no feed to my telly. Sorry if this has been asked before, I wasn't able to find something about it in the thread.

clfy39tzve8njq

AngryLips wrote:

Just bought one of these ...does anyone know how long it takes to boot up for the first time? It's been stuck on boot for nearly 30 minutes now and there's no feed to my telly. Sorry if this has been asked before, I wasn't able to find something about it in the thread.

I don't have one but it shouldn't take anything like that time to boot up.

Sam Russell

AngryLips wrote: »

Just bought one of these ...does anyone know how long it takes to boot up for the first time? It's been stuck on boot for nearly 30 minutes now and there's no feed to my telly. Sorry if this has been asked before, I wasn't able to find something about it in the thread.

I do not have one but are you connected to the TV via HDMI, a satellite, Saorview antenna and broadband?

It should show on you TV. If it is not, then maybe it is not selected as an input.

AngryLips

Actually it worked when I rebooted with a wired connection to broadband

clfy39tzve8njq

AngryLips wrote:

Actually it worked when I rebooted with a wired connection to broadband

Good stuff

thatwilldopig

Any sign of the recording update being released before Christmas?

donegal.

thatwilldopig wrote: »

Any sign of the recording update being released before Christmas?

christmas 2020

galtee boy

thatwilldopig wrote: »

Any sign of the recording update being released before Christmas?

When you think that Sky+ was launched in 2001 and main stream pvrs in general like Freesat launched a few years later, here we are, 18 years later, waiting for Saorview/RTE to add a recording facility to box, so that it can record to an EXTERNAL HDD, sweet Jesus is all I can say.

JDxtra

What a joke.

But of course there will be no accountability in RTE for this fiasco.

byte

JDxtra wrote: »

What a joke.

But of course there will be no accountability in RTE for this fiasco.

Of course, they can shift that blame on Powerpoint.

I wonder do Vestel have any set-top boxes that work with Freesat/Metaphor software? I'm a bit surprised the likes of Walker weren't on the ball here.

Bella Doyle

Does anybody have any figures of how many of these boxes actually sold ? My guess is very few