Saorview Connect

The Cush

A new service proposed by RTÉ in its 5 year strategy published today

Description

The SAORVIEW DTT service was successfully launched in 2011. Following the completion of digital switchover, there are high levels of awareness of the SAORVIEW brand, and as of the end of December 2012, there were 558,000 SAORVIEW homes.

There are opportunities for SAORVIEW to grow as a DTT only platform, particularly with the launch of new services and the inclusion of new functionality in set-top boxes, such as personal video recorders.

But the growth of broadband and the ability to access on demand and linear video content over the internet has resulted in some free-to-air broadcast platforms launching hybrid services, such as You View and Freesat (Freetime) in the UK. These hybrid services combine access to linear content delivered over broadcast, and on-demand and linear content streamed over the nternet. And all are presented within the electronic programme guide, providing the consumer with a seamless integrated service.

There is an opportunity to capitalise on the growth of IP and the SAORVIEW brand equity to create a service called SAORVIEW Anywhere that is an extension and development of the DTT service.

SAORVIEW Anywhere will provide quality content, including existing and new SAORVIEW channels and services, on-demand and catchup services, accessed through an easy-to-use and intuitive interface.

The service will be free to access (over and above broadband network access charges) and minimal investment will be required by consumers, as the stand-alone broadband service will be designed to be accessed on existing broadband devices. Existing SAORVIEW homes who wish to take up the service will require a new set-top box and a broadband connection.

RTÉ will not be able to deliver SAORVIEW Anywhere on its own, and will need to work with a number of partners to deliver both the stand-alone broadband service and the hybrid set-top box. RTÉ will seek appropriate industry partners to deliver SAORVIEW Anywhere, to enable both the stand-alone broadband service and the hybrid set-top box.

The service supports the growth and take-up of broadband, and supports free access to public-service content. RTÉ will encourage new channel development and new market entrants to be part of the service.

Financial Implications
The detailed business case for SOARVIEW Anywhere is being prepared.

excollier

This to help justify the migration from tv licence to a charge for every household....regardless of whether it contains a tv.

whitebriar

Brand equity is a nice phrase.
so is this going to be a saorview version of sky go?
Good luck with Tv3 putting anything into it...

I already have a saorview go service anyway and with no extra adds,its called slingbox

excollier

"Saorview Anywhere Lite" anyone?

The Cush

Article on this in the Sunday Business Post today.

Originally referred to as Saorview Anywhere in the strategy document but now Saorview Connected.

New plans in the pipline at Saorview

Saorview is planning to launch a service called Saorview Connected, currently in procurement and under development, which will allow it to work with a broadband provider to offer a "hybrid-type" service.

"It's early days, but that's the kind of direction we're taking," said Jim Higgins, the platform's brand compliance and business development manager.

The RTÉ tender to develop Saorview Connected was published last June

Detailed description

RTÉ is seeking companies that can provide the technology specification for developing SAORVIEW Connected that can work with DTT, and specifically the DTT specification used in Ireland. RTÉ is looking for companies to possibly license the specification to manufacturers and to provide the necessary interface and platform management services to SAORVIEW.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=77656&B=&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

From the tender

RTÉ is seeking to evolve the SAORVIEW platform to incorporate open internet IP connectivity, developing a DTT/open internet IP hybrid platform called SAORVIEW Connected. SAORVIEW Connected is a next generation of SAORVIEW and the intention is to offer SAORVIEW consumers with SAORVIEW Connected equipment access to online media players and linear services delivered over the top to complement the existing DTT services.

It is envisaged that SAORVIEW Connected will offer:

(i) A single user interface with a consistent design, look and feel providing access to the DTT and over the top delivered services
(ii) A backwards EPG providing easy click through access to catch-up content from media players

http://www.mulley.net/2014/06/21/rte-tenders-their-ad-system-specs-saorview-goes-all-ip/

It was briefly discussed at an Oireachtas Communications Committee debate with RTÉ last March

Strategic Plan 2012-17 and Other Issues: RTE

Wednesday, 26 March 2014

Mr. Noel Curran: ... Saorview has been much more successful for us than we ever anticipated, particularly in second homes. The latest figures are above 700,000. Although a significant portion relates to second televisions, we really did not expect to be in 700,000 homes at this stage. That success has led us to consider what the next innovation should be in regard to Saorview, an issue that was discussed only a few weeks ago at the executive board. I cannot go into too much detail at this stage other than to say that we are developing the proposal in our strategy document, Saorview Connected. It is about growing Saorview as a brand and a proposition and positioning ourselves for what we expect is going to happen in terms of broadband penetration. Saorview is a national brand which could well become the largest platform in the country in the next 12 months. We have started to look at how we can position and utilise that brand to best effect.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2014032600010

kooga

kind of like youview in the uk?

JTMan

Has anyone heard any recent news about Saorview Connected? It was due to go live in late 2015.

brick man

JTMan wrote:

Has anyone heard any recent news about Saorview Connected? It was due to go live in late 2015.

Not a word on that yet, though I seen a piece in the mirror today that saorview is in 646000 homes and sky is in 645000 though I would imagine some people have saorview as second option after sky upc.

ftakeith

brick man wrote: »

Not a word on that yet, though I seen a piece in the mirror today that saorview is in 646000 homes and sky is in 645000 though I would imagine some people have saorview as second option after sky upc.

http://www.saorview.ie/news/saorview-now-the-largest-tv-platform-in-ireland/

Yes I agree

I have Sky in my main tv room with saorview

but I have freesat/saorview in 2 other rooms

Freesat dish and sky dish are the same with saorview

I am amazed Saorview has not gone to international news channels like CNN, euronews, Al jazeera English, france 24 and even CCtv Chinese for putting them on the platform

The Cush

Saorview is in talks with Freesat to partner with them for its planned Saorview Connected service according to an article in today's Sunday Times.

Details are to be announced before the end of the year with a planned launch next year. Freesat would design and develop the boxes.

JTMan

The story is here.

Why are Saorview partnering with Freesat for an IPTV service? It is an IPTV service and not a satellite service ... right?

The new box will include Freesat’s 200 TV and radio stations, on-demand and catch-up services. It will have internet protocol television capability, which means customers would be able to access services over the internet. This would include services such as Netflix, although there is no agreement with a movie streaming service at this stage.

Sources said it would be a significantly enhanced service and would be promoted heavily by the broadcaster as a free alternative to its pay-TV rivals. “This will bring Saorview into a whole new sphere,” said an industry source.

icdg

It'd be a big development - effectively we're talking the introduction of a Saorview/Freesat combo box and presumably would mean it would be "open season" for manufacturers to start marketing Freesat boxes in Ireland. Previously we've worked on the assumption that rights issued prevented direct marketing of Freesat in Ireland (though at least one high street retailer, Maplin, does stock Freesat boxes).

The Cush

JTMan wrote: »

The story is here.

Why are Saorview partnering with Freesat for an IPTV service? It is an IPTV service and not a satellite service ... right?

A true Saorview Freesat combi would be my guess.

A move towards the UK's D-Book STB spec?
Will D-Book series linking return to our Freeview spec PVRs for Saorview?

Gerry Wicklow

icdg wrote: »

It'd be a big development - effectively we're talking the introduction of a Saorview/Freesat combo box and presumably would mean it would be "open season" for manufacturers to start marketing Freesat boxes in Ireland. Previously we've worked on the assumption that rights issued prevented direct marketing of Freesat in Ireland (though at least one high street retailer, Maplin, does stock Freesat boxes).

Maybe it's the old legal grey area. It's ok to sell them but the offence is when the user switches it on.

JTMan

The Cush wrote: »

A true Saorview Freesat combi would be my guess.

Makes sense but wasnt the original idea to build an IPTV service?

icdg

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Maybe it's the old legal grey area. It's ok to sell them but the offence is when the user switches it on.

To be clear, there are no legal issues with using a Freesat box in Ireland. That's why there's no problem discussing them here (or in the Satellite forum anyway!),

Any legal issues are between the broadcasters and their content providers if the content providers are not happy with them broadcasting their content outside of the area that they had agreed to limit their broadcasts too.

formerly scottish paddy

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Maybe it's the old legal grey area. It's ok to sell them but the offence is when the user switches it on.

Can't be an offence under EU single market rules, only an offence if you are accessing pay tv through illegal means.

This sounds like the holy grail of STBs. I'll be very curious about this, as I'm sure many others will be too.

WheatenBriar

Looks like a saorview approved combi box with the uk channels coming over satellite
Its not saorview broadcasting those channel's and I hope its not like pay for bbc and itv? No ones going to do that!
If it is,it would be Another project by someone in Rte that doesn't have a clue!
Heres the article

Hibrasil

SAORVIEW will exhibit at this year’s Irish Satellite and Aerial Association show, to be held in City North Hotel Dublin on November 12th.

Trade and public are welcome to come along and see the latest in installation technology for SAORVIEW and satellite systems. Come along and see how you can get Ireland’s favourite channels with SAORVIEW, and talk to expert installers and suppliers about your SAORVIEW options.

City North Hotel is located at Junction 7 on the M1, and the sh0w is open between 10.00 and 17.30. :rolleyes:

Question time.... I think???

galtee boy

icdg wrote: »

To be clear, there are no legal issues with using a Freesat box in Ireland. That's why there's no problem discussing them here (or in the Satellite forum anyway!),

Any legal issues are between the broadcasters and their content providers if the content providers are not happy with them broadcasting their content outside of the area that they had agreed to limit their broadcasts too.

I thought Freesat are not allowed to market their service outside the UK i.e they cannot market, promote and sell Freesat branded boxes in ROI. We all know they are available here, my local small independent tv shop, sells Manhattan Freesat receivers. I presume Freesat turn a blind eye to this or are unaware of it. So I'm wondering how the legal eagles for both RTE and Freesat are going to satisfy BBC/ITV and all the other channels, that their programmes/channels etc are going to be actively promoted in ROI, what about rights ? Home and Away on RTE and Channel 5, will TV3 not be bothered about their ITV programmes being also available on ITV/UTV via a box being promoted and marketed by RTE ? Even Sky and UPC might have a serious problem with this. Just a thought , I wonder is the delay with RTE1 HD going on Sky anything to do with this ? Are Sky p****d off with RTE ?

formerly scottish paddy

Well I wouldn't think that Sky are over the moon about this. If Saorview run a decent advertising campaign about this, then many people will stop being ripped off by Sky just to watch Irish and UK terrestrials. (most Sky customers in the UK and Ireland predominately watch their respective terrestrial channels)
Don't know how this would effect RTÉ's "deal" with Sky?

dublinman1990

This will look like paving a way to the beginning of a formal recognition of Freesat/Saorview equipment being officially sold for the Irish market as well as the UK.

A few questions to ask from me though about this new service.

1) Will these new IPTV combi-boxes just be available to be marketed and sold on an Ireland only basis?

2) What does it mean for people who use Saorsat who cannot get Saorview from an aerial? Will it technically possible for them to use these boxes along with Freesat?

3) Will this announcement allow more Catch-up TV services from Ireland e.g. RTE Player, 3Player and TG4 Player to be launched and be available seperately on Freesat Freetime for their UK viewers and maybe on Freeview Play and other services as a distinct possibility?

icdg

galtee boy wrote: »

I thought Freesat are not allowed to market their service outside the UK i.e they cannot market, promote and sell Freesat branded boxes in ROI. We all know they are available here, my local small independent tv shop, sells Manhattan Freesat receivers.

It is worth noting again what Freesat actually is. It is nothing more than a common hardware design, a proprietary EPG, and a marketing brand name. It doesn't broadcast any channels and owns no satellites or transponder space. It is most definitely not a broadcaster, and isn't really a platform operator either.

Why is all that important? Because it means that to the extent that anyone can "allow" Freesat to do or not do anything, it is its shareholders. Previously we knew that the BBC and ITV were not keen for Freesat to be marketed in Ireland - the whole Sat4free debacle is testimony to that! But it may be that they have changed their minds.

galtee boy

icdg wrote: »

But it may be that they have changed their minds.

I hope you're right. A Saorview/Freesat PVR with all Irish and UK channels on one EPG with full series link etc, is what we all have been waiting years for, but it's possible that RTE and Freesat are about to disturb a right hornets nest with this one.

Sam Russell

What about BBC iPlayer - will the geoblock be lifted?

The Cush

JTMan wrote: »

Makes sense but wasnt the original idea to build an IPTV service?

No, as the tender said "RTÉ is seeking to evolve the SAORVIEW platform to incorporate open internet IP connectivity" and Freesat would be an added bonus.

This from the original tender

RTÉ is seeking companies that can provide the technology specification for developing SAORVIEW Connected that can work with DTT, and specifically the DTT specification used in Ireland. RTÉ is looking for companies to possibly license the specification to manufacturers and to provide the necessary interface and platform management services to SAORVIEW.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

What about BBC iPlayer - will the geoblock be lifted?

This will be a tailored service/box for Ireland so lots of question to be answered.

Will/can some of the Freesat channels opt out?
Could we see RTÉ International launching on Freesat in a reciprocal move as was originally planned?

kooga

On a combo box what will be the lcn on The epg

The Cush

kooga wrote: »

On a combo box what will be the lcn on The epg

Again unknown.

Will there be a combined epg? Saorview channels in the top 100 (incl. the radio channels) with the Freesat channels starting at 101 as they are now.

Or will we have 2 separate epgs?

Lots of questions but no details, only an article in the press.

Apogee

kooga wrote: »

On a combo box what will be the lcn on The epg

I'd hazard a guess that any combi box that might result from this partnership would have separate Saorview and Freesat EPGs. I'd imagine both parties might be anxious to keep their branding separate to an extent.

Harry Palmr

A fascinating prospect and one that SKY in particular will do its best to kill, rather than anyone in BBC or ITV. The shareholders are not idiots they know perfectly well that Ireland falls within its footprint and that thousands of boxes are in Irish homes already. Maybe its about time its was acknowledged and dealt with sensibly.

If its a proper box for the interweb and has access to all the UK catch up services that would, even in a land of still lowish speeds for many be a real boon.

danm14

Isn't there a possibility that these might be hardcoded with a certain, Irish "postcode", that only has the BBC channels and Channel 4 (no UTV/Channel 5, just like with Sky) as they don't seem to be too interested in broadcasting to Ireland for whatever reason? BBC and Channel 4 presumably have the rights issues sorted as they're on Sky, ITV and Channel 5 presumably don't.

The Cush

Saorview recently published a revised version of its Minimum Receiver Requirements, version 6.

This adds a HbbTV requirement to the Saorview receiver specification from 1st January 2016. HbbTV (freetime) is already part of the Freesat spec.

This from Wikipedia

In the UK, most broadcasters have not adopted the HbbTV standard but Freesat, the free-to-air satellite TV service broadcast via Astra 28.2°E, has revealed that the second generation "G2" specification for Freesat receivers will use HbbTV, to take advantage of the digital TV chipsets being developed for that standard (but retaining MHEG-5 compatibility of the first generation Freesat receivers).

FRIENDO

Often wondered why we never had such an STB.
Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?

channelsurfer2

It may be that it will be a Saorview branded box with a simple add-on satellite tuner and IPTV connected for the RTE player etc. I wouldn't get carried away about Freesat EPG just yet.

The Cush

FRIENDO wrote: »

Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?

It wasn't required, both services carried the same or similar offerings and the market was probably too small to justify the cost of such a box there.

Recently Freesat have started licensing their epg outside the UK under their FreeTV Alliance agreement and now it appears they're removing their Ireland restriction.

http://cdn.freesat.co.uk/freesat/freesat_website/content/downloadables/freetime-announces-metaphor.pdf

Freesat puts Freetime EPG to work in Europe

UK free-to-air satellite platform Freesat has licensed the technology underlying its hybrid Freetime TV guide to Italy's Tivusat to launch a new OTT service.

The EPG is being marketed to platforms outside the UK under the Metaphor brand and includes a companion application for Android and iOS.

FRIENDO

channelsurfer2 wrote:

It may be that it will be a Saorview branded box with a simple add-on satellite tuner and IPTV connected for the RTE player etc. I wouldn't get carried away about Freesat EPG just yet.

Possibly similar to the Walker combo with three epg's, hopefully the new box will work better this time.
The Walker saorsat approved box already works well with Freesat/satfree epg and a second epg for other sat/saorsat. The Internet function is not working on this box on Itv player at the moment.

TAFKAlawhec

FRIENDO wrote: »

Often wondered why we never had such an STB.
Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?

Freesat's intention was to act as a multi-channel service to those in Freeview black spots or tricky reception areas. However it's managed to evolve into a worthy platform in its own right especially as it was able to deliver BBC & ITV HD services quicker than many parts of the UK got from terrestrial.

The reason a Freeview/Freesat STB has not been commercially available is that there just isn't a demand for one, there's only a few channels on Freeview that aren't FTA on Freesat, mainly the UKTV channels and 4Music off the top of my head.

TAFKAlawhec

Apogee wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that any combi box that might result from this partnership would have separate Saorview and Freesat EPGs. I'd imagine both parties might be anxious to keep their branding separate to an extent.

I'd suspect that if such a project did come to fruition, that's what would happen. However it would be technically possible to use the Freesat EPG in a way that by having the Republic of Ireland as a 'postcode' that it would trigger a terrestrial scan on a receiver with the right firmware to look for the relevant Saorview channels via PID and subsequently add these to the EPG at 101-105 with the relevant UK channels in this position moved somewhere else in the EPG. Either way for such a system to comfortably work for time shifting it'll need four tuners minimum (2xDVB-T(2) & 2xDVB-S2).

TAFKAlawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

What about BBC iPlayer - will the geoblock be lifted?

I wouldn't get your hopes up - the BBC is already having to dig itself in with negotiations for its charter renewal against a government in Westminster that would ideally like to strip it right down. Lifting geoblocks to the iPlayer would leave the likes of Daily Mail readers frothing about "freeloading paddies" they same way they cried about the BBC potentially launching a (limited) European iPlayer subscription service.

JTMan

The Cush wrote: »

No, as the tender said "RTÉ is seeking to evolve the SAORVIEW platform to incorporate open internet IP connectivity" and Freesat would be an added bonus.

This from the original tender

Thanks. Will the offering therefore incorporate both IPTV and satellite delivery?

The Cush

JTMan wrote: »

Will the offering therefore incorporate both IPTV and satellite delivery?

That's the assumption but we'll have to for the announcement for the actual details.

reubenreuben

I can't see how this will work with program rights for both UK and ireland.

Or they replace the programs from the channels that don't have the rights.

The Cush

reubenreuben wrote: »

I can't see how this will work with program rights for both UK and ireland.

Or they replace the programs from the channels that don't have the rights.

The channels are already available FTA here, all Freesat does is put then into a logical order via the epg.

Sam Russell

The Freesat EPG has got itself into a mess. They have to sort out the HD provision for England so that BBC1 HD can be on 101, with BBC 2 HD on 102. They have lost all logic with ITV HD on 119 but ITV SD on 103, etc. They have also allowed new additions to be tacked onto the end of the list making for no logical order.

If Saorview can be added, it would make more logic to put them in the same order as here :- RTE 1 HD as 1, RTE 1 +1 as 11, RTE News Now as 21, etc. Maybe Freesat could copy the logic 2RN/RTE have adopted.

The software can sort out the numbers, and the EPGs - it is not rocket science - or is it? There are rockets in there somewhere.

steveon

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Freesat EPG has got itself into a mess. They have to sort out the HD provision for England so that BBC1 HD can be on 101, with BBC 2 HD on 102. They have lost all logic with ITV HD on 119 but ITV SD on 103, etc. They have also allowed new additions to be tacked onto the end of the list making for no logical order.

If Saorview can be added, it would make more logic to put them in the same order as here :- RTE 1 HD as 1, RTE 1 +1 as 11, RTE News Now as 21, etc. Maybe Freesat could copy the logic 2RN/RTE have adopted.

The software can sort out the numbers, and the EPGs - it is not rocket science - or is it? There are rockets in there somewhere.

Totally agree they stated they were going to do this well over 18 months ago but still havent adopted it properly

http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/bbc-hd-channels-move-positions-freesat/

reubenreuben

The Cush wrote: »

The channels are already available FTA here, all Freesat does is put then into a logical order via the epg.

Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

It probably won't happen to due to the border rights or it will be an irish epg version not showing all programs via a different satellite such as the one used for saorsat. But then why not just watch the Fta channels direct from satellite using a Fta box in that case

steveon

reubenreuben wrote: »

Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

Freesat have now started to make the epg guides for other operators so I think its all a good start and I look forward and welcome all new boxes....one with the irish and freesat channels has long been overlooked

The Cush

reubenreuben wrote: »

Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

The rights holders are aware of the overspill into Ireland and continental Europe and this would be included in the rights cost.

freesat won't be carrying the Irish channels, they are designing and developing a Saorview terrestrial receiver which will incorporate the Saorview Connected-TV specification and according to the ST article Freesat as a an added feature.

reubenreuben

The Cush wrote: »

The rights holders are aware of the overspill into Ireland and continental Europe and would be included in the cost.

freesat won't be carrying the Irish channels, they are designing and developing a Saorview terrestrial receiver which will incorporate the Saorview Connected-TV specification and according to the ST article Freesat as a an added feature.

But how will that affect broadcast rights as Freesat would then be basically making all the UK channels available in Ireland for no extra licence fee.
I know they can be received anyhow via fta but they are still designed for the UK market only. This will change everything.
Is this a way for RTE to enable more money from the rumoured new 'broadcast charge'?