Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

KevIRL

seananigans wrote: »

Is sundays match televided?

Doubt it will be. Quarter finals would rightly take priority. Also football on this weekend so probably 1 hurling and 1 football on sunday

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

Is sundays match televided?

Are u having a laugh

seananigans

I have to move this weekend will have to try and make it down for a day trip anyone else breeding the dub crowd on the match day treason or done it before

PTH2009

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Bar Paudie Mahony...the whole forward line could be different come the Cork match in May. Maybe Steven Daniels comes into the backline too. From what I've heard Brian O'Halloran is flying at training, I'd love to see him get a good run and stay injury free...what a prospect this guy was at minor level

match fitness could be a problem for some players. We will probly play a few challenge games and the lads have 2 weeks of club matches (BTW is the draw made for the 2014 county championship yet)

tonc76

PTH2009 wrote: »

match fitness could be a problem for some players. We will probly play a few challenge games and the lads have 2 weeks of club matches (BTW is the draw made for the 2014 county championship yet)

From http://www.waterfordgaa.com/

Senior Hurling Championship Group 1

Roanmore
Passage
Fourmilewater
Abbeyside
Lismore
De La Salle

Senior Hurling Championship Group 2

Dungarvan
Ballygunner
Ardmore
Ballyduff Upper
Tallow
Mt. Sion

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

I have to move this weekend will have to try and make it down for a day trip anyone else breeding the dub crowd on the match day treason or done it before

Cant exactly see the dubs travelling down in their droves. Relegation play offs not really their scene. More accustomed to sunny days on the hill. Walsh park hadnt exactky been a happy hunting ground for them in recent times either. Might get a seat on the team bus ;-)

Giveitfong

It is impossible to figure out what Waterford were at tactically last Sunday. Jamie Barron started off promisingly at wing forward, but then was withdrawn into the half back line after about 15 minutes, even though Waterford had been doing quite well in terms of possession up to that stage, and Kilkenny were keeping to their positions and not playing an extra man anywhere. What was the point of this switch, which greatly reduced Waterford’s potential scoring power?


With Austin Gleeson also playing out around midfield, Waterford had just Brian O’Sullivan in a forward position, always accompanied by at least two Kilkenny defenders. How did Waterford propose to get a reasonable score out of this arrangement? With Waterford getting a decent amount of possession in the half backs and around midfield, why was there no plan to feed the ball to the half forwards? I don’t think Pauric Mahony played the ball once in the first half. Stephen Molumphy managed just two or three plays.


Why was Jamie Nagle substituted after 25 minutes? Waterford were not in trouble at that stage and, while he made a couple of mistakes, Nagle was getting on the ball. Apart from a couple of inconsequential touches, his replacement Barry Coughlan didn’t play the ball once during his 45 minutes or so on the pitch. Why would Coughlan have been preferred as a half back before Darragh Fives and Paudie Prendergast, both of whom were listed in the substitutes? Prendergast was ever-present in the UCC centre back position this year while Fives is one of our top players.


At half-time Waterford were still very much in this game. In the first half they won eleven of their fifteen puckouts which gave them plenty of primary possession. Kilkenny won ten of their thirteen puckouts, but four of these were short puckouts facilitated by the absence of the Waterford full forward line. Waterford won the first four of their own puckouts in the second half and then things fell apart. They had twenty more puckouts, but only won six of them. Kilkenny only had nine puckouts in the second half, and won six of them.


Kilkenny’s drive, sharpness, striking and ball control were all streets ahead of Waterford’s in the second half. We know Waterford can play better than this. In the 2011 Munster Final, the Waterford players knew that Davy Fitzgerald’s selection and game plan were hopeless, and played accordingly. There were signs of this again last Sunday.



A few excerpts from the game:


In the 23rd minute Jamie Nagle sent in a long ball aimed at Brian O’Sullivan who was being marked by three Kilkenny players, with no other Waterford player in the vicinity.


In the 37th minute Kevin Moran without looking up hit a long high ball from his own half of the field towards the Kilkenny goal. Inside the Kilkenny 45 metre line there were two Waterford forwards and five Kilkenny defenders.


In the 38th minute Walter Walsh got possession on the Waterford 45 metre line. There were no less than nine Waterford players strung out along the line. Despite this, Walsh managed to set up a point for Mark Kelly.



In the 41st minute Kevin Moran took a pass from Stephen Molumphy and, despite there being an easy point available, ran towards the Kilkenny goal with no Waterford player in support and was inevitably dispossessed by the chasing pack.


In the 43rd minute Pauric Mahony gained possession in midfield and set off for the Kilkenny goal. Shane O’Sullivan, who was beside Mahony when he got possession, stood still and watched him head for goal. Pádraig Walsh, who was beside O’Sullivan, chased after Mahony and dispossessed him.


In the 45th minute Pauric Mahony sent a long high free towards the Kilkenny goal. When the ball crossed the 45 metre line there were two Waterford and five Kilkenny players inside it.



In the 55th minute Shane O’Sullivan drove the ball from his own half towards the Kilkenny goal. Seamus Prendergast was the only Waterford player inside the 45 metre line, along with four Kilkenny players.


In the 65th minute Brian O’Sullivan, supposedly a full forward, took a pass on the Waterford 20 metre line.


It wasn’t all black for Waterford. Despite being caught out of position for two of Kilkenny’s goals, Shane Fives played a lot of ball and played it well. Philip Mahony worked hard all through. Shane O’Sullivan played a fair bit of ball in midfield as did Stephen Molumphy when moved there in the second half. Brian O’Sullivan worked very hard up front and Ray Barry got some lovely scores.


Next Sunday Dublin will probably play three midfielders (McCaffrey, Boland and Cronin) and two full forwards (Keaney and O’Callaghan) with Alan McCrabbe flitting around into space all around the forward line. Last Sunday against Tipperary he looked like he would win the game on his own until Dublin went six points up, thought they had the game won and lost their concentration.


If Waterford want to counter this system they should detail Tadhg Bourke to follow McCrabbe and play Stephen Molumphy along with two others in midfield. But please, please keep two forwards in the vicinity of the Dublin goal (as Kilkenny did throughout last Sunday against us). Jamie Barron made his name as a free-scoring corner forward playing off Shane Walsh with Fourmilewater. He has never been tried in this position for Waterford. We could do with a few scores next Sunday. And most of all we could do with a team which believes in what it is doing.

O Riain

Giveitfong wrote: »

It is impossible to figure out what Waterford were at tactically last Sunday. Jamie Barron started off promisingly at wing forward, but then was withdrawn into the half back line after about 15 minutes, even though Waterford had been doing quite well in terms of possession up to that stage, and Kilkenny were keeping to their positions and not playing an extra man anywhere. What was the point of this switch, which greatly reduced Waterford’s potential scoring power?

With Austin Gleeson also playing out around midfield, Waterford had just Brian O’Sullivan in a forward position, always accompanied by at least two Kilkenny defenders. How did Waterford propose to get a reasonable score out of this arrangement? With Waterford getting a decent amount of possession in the half backs and around midfield, why was there no plan to feed the ball to the half forwards? I don’t think Pauric Mahony played the ball once in the first half. Stephen Molumphy managed just two or three plays.


Why was Jamie Nagle substituted after 25 minutes? Waterford were not in trouble at that stage and, while he made a couple of mistakes, Nagle was getting on the ball. Apart from a couple of inconsequential touches, his replacement Barry Coughlan didn’t play the ball once during his 45 minutes or so on the pitch. Why would Coughlan have been preferred as a half back before Darragh Fives and Paudie Prendergast, both of whom were listed in the substitutes? Prendergast was ever-present in the UCC centre back position this year while Fives is one of our top players.


At half-time Waterford were still very much in this game. In the first half they won eleven of their fifteen puckouts which gave them plenty of primary possession. Kilkenny won ten of their thirteen puckouts, but four of these were short puckouts facilitated by the absence of the Waterford full forward line. Waterford won the first four of their own puckouts in the second half and then things fell apart. They had twenty more puckouts, but only won six of them. Kilkenny only had nine puckouts in the second half, and won six of them.


Kilkenny’s drive, sharpness, striking and ball control were all streets ahead of Waterford’s in the second half. We know Waterford can play better than this. In the 2011 Munster Final, the Waterford players knew that Davy Fitzgerald’s selection and game plan were hopeless, and played accordingly. There were signs of this again last Sunday.



A few excerpts from the game:


In the 23rd minute Jamie Nagle sent in a long ball aimed at Brian O’Sullivan who was being marked by three Kilkenny players, with no other Waterford player in the vicinity.


In the 37th minute Kevin Moran without looking up hit a long high ball from his own half of the field towards the Kilkenny goal. Inside the Kilkenny 45 metre line there were two Waterford forwards and five Kilkenny defenders.


In the 38th minute Walter Walsh got possession on the Waterford 45 metre line. There were no less than nine Waterford players strung out along the line. Despite this, Walsh managed to set up a point for Mark Kelly.



In the 41st minute Kevin Moran took a pass from Stephen Molumphy and, despite there being an easy point available, ran towards the Kilkenny goal with no Waterford player in support and was inevitably dispossessed by the chasing pack.


In the 43rd minute Pauric Mahony gained possession in midfield and set off for the Kilkenny goal. Shane O’Sullivan, who was beside Mahony when he got possession, stood still and watched him head for goal. Pádraig Walsh, who was beside O’Sullivan, chased after Mahony and dispossessed him.


In the 45th minute Pauric Mahony sent a long high free towards the Kilkenny goal. When the ball crossed the 45 metre line there were two Waterford and five Kilkenny players inside it.



In the 55th minute Shane O’Sullivan drove the ball from his own half towards the Kilkenny goal. Seamus Prendergast was the only Waterford player inside the 45 metre line, along with four Kilkenny players.


In the 65th minute Brian O’Sullivan, supposedly a full forward, took a pass on the Waterford 20 metre line.


It wasn’t all black for Waterford. Despite being caught out of position for two of Kilkenny’s goals, Shane Fives played a lot of ball and played it well. Philip Mahony worked hard all through. Shane O’Sullivan played a fair bit of ball in midfield as did Stephen Molumphy when moved there in the second half. Brian O’Sullivan worked very hard up front and Ray Barry got some lovely scores.


Next Sunday Dublin will probably play three midfielders (McCaffrey, Boland and Cronin) and two full forwards (Keaney and O’Callaghan) with Alan McCrabbe flitting around into space all around the forward line. Last Sunday against Tipperary he looked like he would win the game on his own until Dublin went six points up, thought they had the game won and lost their concentration.


If Waterford want to counter this system they should detail Tadhg Bourke to follow McCrabbe and play Stephen Molumphy along with two others in midfield. But please, please keep two forwards in the vicinity of the Dublin goal (as Kilkenny did throughout last Sunday against us). Jamie Barron made his name as a free-scoring corner forward playing off Shane Walsh with Fourmilewater. He has never been tried in this position for Waterford. We could do with a few scores next Sunday. And most of all we could do with a team which believes in what it is doing.

Good analysis. Have to say I remember some of the moments you wrote about above. Seeing ball after ball going in to Brian O Sullivan and him surrounded by Kilkenny men was demoralising for me so I can't only imagine how it was for the team and particularly Brian.

Lads I am far from an expert but when I see a glaringly obvious problem and the management does not then I consider that management not fit for the job, even at this early stage.

When championship comes round its only going to get faster, more intense and with a lot more pressure. If they are this clueless at the league stage which is extremely relaxed in comparison to championship then I expect them to be even worse come summer. Hopefully not though.

alllcounty

I think it's backwards we're going and the next 3 years could prove to be a big missed opportunity if we continue with the same management and their clueless tactics.

seananigans

alllcounty wrote: »

I think it's backwards we're going and the next 3 years could prove to be a big missed opportunity if we continue with the same management and their clueless tactics.

Lets just accept he said is here fr the year and if he downy measure up sorry about it then no good will come out changing him now and we need to get behind team at the very least until the seasons over

robopaddy

Would agree with o rian about paudi prendergast. He was excellent at centre back for ucc in the fitzgobbon yet he didnt even get a look in over the 5 games in the league. They kept persisting with coughlan even though he wasnt really doing a whole pile altho u could argue not too much wrong. But surely pp was entitled to at least a full half of hurling. When you consider the gametime lads like barrett and coughlan got

thesultan

IS jake dillion after doing his cruciate?

Sliabh gCua

tomwaterford wrote: »

id hazard a guess not in 20+ years :D

however you are right in relation to withdrawn forwards....Dublin v cork all Ireland semi last year was the best first half of hurling in years....
alright a heap of denfensive mistakes...but jesus at least it was enjoyeable to watch

why Dublin don't play like that more often must be very furstracting to their supporters....

you could stomach losing if they put in a performance,or felt like they tried teir best/gave it their all!!

Before this, teams always went 15 against 15. The only tactic in the past was to try and outscore the opposition over 60 or 70 minutes. Maybe its time to return to such days. The withdrawing of forwards to play as extra backs and maybe then to counter attack is a recent thing.

cleaboy boy

Team for Sunday

SOK
T De Burca
Shane Fives
Noel Connors
Shane O'Sullivan
Brick
Philip Mahony
Steven Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Jamie Barron
Pauric Mahony
Austin Gleeson
Ray Barry
Seamus Pender
Brian O'Sullivan

tomwaterford

robopaddy wrote: »

Would agree with o rian about paudi prendergast. He was excellent at centre back for ucc in the fitzgobbon yet he didnt even get a look in over the 5 games in the league. They kept persisting with coughlan even though he wasnt really doing a whole pile altho u could argue not too much wrong. But surely pp was entitled to at least a full half of hurling. When you consider the gametime lads like barrett and coughlan got

be careful....you could be opening up a massive east v west can of worms :eek::eek:

Deise Hurler

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Team for Sunday

SOK
T De Burca
Shane Fives
Noel Connors
Shane O'Sullivan
Brick
Philip Mahony
Steven Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Jamie Barron
Pauric Mahony
Austin Gleeson
Ray Barry
Seamus Pender
Brian O'Sullivan

Going to struggle with that forward line. Way too light. Glad to see Seamus back in the team and Ray Barry starting after his performance last Sunday but we still lack ball winners in the forwards. Can't believe Brian O Sullivan is starting again. In the first half last week he was getting great ball but once again no end product from him. Half forward line is way too light. Jamie Nagle doesn't deserve to be dropped either. Was poor enough last week but has been playing great hurling for a while now.

blue note

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Team for Sunday

SOK
T De Burca
Shane Fives
Noel Connors
Shane O'Sullivan
Brick
Philip Mahony
Steven Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Jamie Barron
Pauric Mahony
Austin Gleeson
Ray Barry
Seamus Pender
Brian O'Sullivan

Very surprised to see Nagle dropped. I think swapping Sully and Moran would make sense, but they might line out as named.

seananigans

blue note wrote: »

Very surprised to see Nagle dropped. I think swapping Sully and Moran would make sense, but they might line out as named.

Am i wrong in saying austin played fullback at minor .where does he play with the club ?

Ropaire

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Team for Sunday

SOK
T De Burca
Shane Fives
Noel Connors
Shane O'Sullivan
Brick
Philip Mahony
Steven Molumphy
Kevin Moran
Jamie Barron
Pauric Mahony
Austin Gleeson
Ray Barry
Seamus Pender
Brian O'Sullivan

Can't for the life of me understand why Darragh Fives isn't named if he's fit. I was going to say the forwards look very light, but we'll prob only have Brian O'Sullivan up there on his own again anyway based on the last few games.

hurler on de ditch

Sliabh gCua wrote: »

Before this, teams always went 15 against 15. The only tactic in the past was to try and outscore the opposition over 60 or 70 minutes. Maybe its time to return to such days. The withdrawing of forwards to play as extra backs and maybe then to counter attack is a recent thing.

if your going to pick 6 forwards ,play them in the forward line ,and if the plan is to withdraw your forward line to defend then pick at least 9/10 backs in your starting 15 ,,,other than that 15 against 15 ,,,any team going out with a system of a sweeper or an extra midfield is simply throwing their hands in the air at the opposition and basically saying to them "WE DONT THINK WE ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BEAT YE "BUT,,,,, we will keep the score down

Deise_2012

Ropaire wrote: »

Can't for the life of me understand why Darragh Fives isn't named if he's fit. I was going to say the forwards look very light, but we'll prob only have Brian O'Sullivan up there on his own again anyway based on the last few games.

Fives is only just back from injury though, he missed all of UCC's fitzgibbon campaign. Definately not up to match fitness yet, might see him for the last 15 if the game is close

Deise_2012

seananigans wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying austin played fullback at minor .where does he play with the club ?

Centre back at minor. Plays wing forward for Mount Sion at senior

deisedude

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

,,,any team going out with a system of a sweeper or an extra midfield is simply throwing their hands in the air at the opposition and basically saying to them "WE DONT THINK WE ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BEAT YE "BUT,,,,, we will keep the score down

I agree with you but the system is not even keeping the score down!

hardybuck

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

if your going to pick 6 forwards ,play them in the forward line ,and if the plan is to withdraw your forward line to defend then pick at least 9/10 backs in your starting 15 ,,,other than that 15 against 15 ,,,any team going out with a system of a sweeper or an extra midfield is simply throwing their hands in the air at the opposition and basically saying to them "WE DONT THINK WE ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BEAT YE "BUT,,,,, we will keep the score down

You're aware that the All Ireland Champions play a sweeper right?

glick6

I can't understand the Nagle decision. Is he dropping him on the basis of a couple of bad balls in the Kk game? Has been one of the better performers thusfar I thought. At least it's not Barry Coughlan replacing him, that would give the conspirators serious fodder!

Slobbery

Nagle was carrying an injury going into the Kilkenny game, came off injured vs clare as well so presumably it has flared up, doent make sense otherwise

Slobbery

seananigans wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying austin played fullback at minor .where does he play with the club ?

He was centre back - Kevin Daly was Full Back

hurler on de ditch

blue note wrote: »

Very surprised to see Nagle dropped. I think swapping Sully and Moran would make sense, but they might line out as named.

yeh strange one indeed ,so he stuck with 6 of the defenders that conceded 9-42 in the last two games ,changed one of the midfielders,and stuck with 4 out of the 6 forwards that contributed very very little in scores ,so over all a very very poor team selection ,,obviously he thinks this is the solution ,,very very poor ,,some would say its too early to change management ,then in the case of Justin Mc Carthy it was bad timing so far into the championship ,,,,,there is no good time to get rid of someone,so do it before its too late

hurler on de ditch

hardybuck wrote: »

You're aware that the All Ireland Champions play a sweeper right?

have'nt noticed ,just thought that they played with very accomplished hurlers who when there not cleaning up at the back they are supporting midfield plus their own full back line ,,either way they won an all Ireland last year with a sweeper at the second attempt ,and very lucky to get a second chance,chances are they wont be as sucessful in this years championship,also since all Ireland's began in 1887 how many have been won with a sweeper

Straight Talker

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

yeh strange one indeed ,so he stuck with 6 of the defenders that conceded 9-42 in the last two games ,changed one of the midfielders,and stuck with 4 out of the 6 forwards that contributed very very little in scores ,so over all a very very poor team selection ,,obviously he thinks this is the solution ,,very very poor ,,some would say its too early to change management ,then in the case of Justin Mc Carthy it was bad timing so far into the championship ,,,,,there is no good time to get rid of someone,so do it before its too late

Well the players got rid of Michael Ryan to bring Derek McGrath in and now some people want the players to now shaft the man that replaced the man that they originally shafted!So you want Derek McGrath to be dumped before his first championship game as manager rolls around!I believe that Michael Ryan should have been allowed to continue on as Waterford manager but i don't think any review of Derek McGraths tenure as Waterford manager should be held until after next years championship.Things could turn around for the championship so i'd cut him some slack.