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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
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The fact of the matter is that those players were not there in 2013. Last year’s management accepted that it did not have all the answers. It brought in outside assistance. Even Brian Cody has has sought outside advice and assistance. Players have lost speed since last year. They have not aged by ten years since 2013. That is a product of the wrong type of training. Even basic hurling skills have gone back. Yesterday we had ruck and maul , pick and poke hurling from Waterford. We had the usual over soloing and over carrying of the ball with the ball being lost regularly. Kilkenny forwards were loose all over the place. There was a looseness at centre field. We had four Waterford forwards battling six Kilkenny backs. The brand of hurling being played is football-hurling. Bin it NOW!!!!!!!!Will you listen to yourself. Division 3 in 2 years? Im not preparing excuses for anyone im not pro this person or anti that person which is the problem with most people on this board. Its about time you accepted that we aint what we used to be. Look at the forwards we have lost in the past few years. Flynn, kelly, mullane, shanahan, ken etc. We just havent been able to replace the likes of them over night. Unfortunately the expectations of many of us is still the same as when we had those players.
Cork with an average enough team play fast direct hurling. We face wipe against Cork if we do not alter course quickly.
The old Waterford style was to move the ball quickly. You move the ball out of defence as quickly as possible. That gave opposing defences less time to settle. What has become of ground hurling? It is necessary when there is a contest with opposing players for a ground ball that players go in with hurleys held like shovels? Is it necessary to attempt to pick every ball? That was not the old Waterford style hurling which was played with skill and flair. It was free moving. Yesterday we had the usual dropping of high balls into the few forwards. The type of hurling being played is a bastardised version. It is not hurling as it is meant to be played.
Supporters will turn on management if these heavy defeats continue. It is in Derek McGraths interest to seek outside assistance to stem the slippage. I know he is working very hard. However he must alter course. It is madness to persist with the current approach. The Cork match is quickly approaching. If we persist with the same style of hurling as was displayed yesterday we will be hammered by an average enough Cork team. If we are hammered by Cork his credibility will be shattered. I want to see Derek McGrath and the management succeed for the sake of Waterford hurling. No supporter is expecting Waterford to win an All Ireland this year. Surely we can do better than yesterday.
PS Waterford did go down to division three in hurling and were beaten by Roscommon and Mayo0 -
We have a home tie in Walsh Park against Dublin next Sunday at 3.30pm0
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Venue fixed for Waterford
http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/3/2403141246-allianz-hurling-league-fixture-details-confirmed/
Gives us a small chance0 -
A step back needs to be taken here. Waterford won their two home games, and lost their three away games. This was as we expected. Very few games were won on the road in 1a. I would be quite concerned by the manner of the last two defeats however, confidence and leadership mightn't be where they need to be right now.
We have similar issues to what we had a year ago. We don't have adequate firepower currently. We have some nice young wristy forwards, but having a John Conlon type player and a Conor McGrath would make some difference.
I'm not sure how that can be addressed in the short term, we may need to be patient.
A lot of sharpened knives will be stuck into the management in the coming days and weeks. However, I think we'd have had a similar year with Ryan. The difference between Ryan and McGrath is that I think the latter will be more capable of bringing a young squad together over 3-4 years than the former.0 -
Ryan was more than capable of bringing a young squad together but wasn't given the time.
I wasn't in support of getting rid of Ryan and bringing in Mcgrath but I sound like a broken record player at this stage. I like the way Mcgrath is after getting the 2 Mahony's really performing. He needs to be given time, he's 3 months into a 3 year plan, with the amount of injuries and new players coming through there was always going to be bumps along the way.
Once they get their shape and tactics right, the 9 or 10 players missing come back into the squad then we'll see where we stand! There's fellas here going on like it's the end of the world for Waterford hurling, speeding past me on the motorway after the game to log in here and let the keyboard warrior commence, calm the **** down jesus like.
Where were ye after the Dublin and Galway games?0 -
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It's hard to judge matches on the radio when we win0
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I think it is fair to say that few would have actually expected us to beat Clare or Kilkenny especially away from the comfort of Walsh Park. However, its the manner of the defeat that has die hard fans like myself angry and disappointed. I thought the days of us taking cricket scores had come to an end, ever since 98' weve been on an upward trend (Kilkenny in '08 and Tipp in '11 being obvious bumps in that 15 year period). There was fight in the jersey, players played with passion. As I said in my last post there is no way in the wide earthly world you can win a game with the smallest player on the team as the only player within 45 yards of the oppositions goal. He was thrown around like a rag doll inside there. And the worst thing was that even though we had a blanket defence, their 6 forwards were still not being man marked. The first thing you do is man mark the 6 forwards, then have your sweepers in between if your going down that route at all - Players score goals, not space0
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I am anti ruck and maul, pick and poke hurling being played by Waterford. It is football-hurling at its worst. It is pedestrian. It is a recipe for disaster against the likes of Clare and Kilkenny. Its fine against Carlow. Its not a personality thing. The current team management lacks the expertise necessary. The last team management was big enough to admit that it did not have all the answers and brought in outside expertise. Does the current team management know it all? Do you think that the hurling supporters are happy with two wipe outs in succeeding weeks?. There are no nine or ten top class players missing. Dont delude yourself. Lets be blunt. Lets call it as it is. It is time to stop deluding ourselves. There are some players of high quality missing. Remember other counties havent fielded full teams either. We are in a terrible hole. Even worse is the danger that we could be humiliated by an average Cork team if the team management does not change tack.Deise_2012 wrote: »Ryan was more than capable of bringing a young squad together but wasn't given the time.
I wasn't in support of getting rid of Ryan and bringing in Mcgrath but I sound like a broken record player at this stage. I like the way Mcgrath is after getting the 2 Mahony's really performing. He needs to be given time, he's 3 months into a 3 year plan, with the amount of injuries and new players coming through there was always going to be bumps along the way.
Once they get their shape and tactics right, the 9 or 10 players missing come back into the squad then we'll see where we stand! There's fellas here going on like it's the end of the world for Waterford hurling, speeding past me on the motorway after the game to log in here and let the keyboard warrior commence, calm the **** down jesus like.
Where were ye after the Dublin and Galway games?
Cornerstone referred to the shambolic defense. There appears to be an application of the soccer zonal marking approach. It is lunacy in hurling.
I am not anti Derek McGrath as a person. I am anti pedestrian hurling with too much picking and poking and hand passing and soloing into trouble.
The tactics adopted yesterday did not work. The tactics adopted against Clare failed. Is it too much to ask for a complete rethink and the introduction of a skilled backs and skilled forwards coach from outside the country. Lets be blunt: The expertise does not exist within the county.0 -
Mcgrath wont lose his job either because of the 3 year plan that he has and cant see Player power going against him either because a big portion of the squad grew up with him as coach (Dls college, De la salle).
If we get by 20 points by Dublin than its time to rethink management0 -
I am anti ruck and maul, pick and poke hurling being played by Waterford. It is football-hurling at its worst. It is pedestrian. It is a recipe for disaster against the likes of Clare and Kilkenny. Its fine against Carlow. Its not a personality thing. The current team management lacks the expertise necessary. The last team management was big enough to admit that it did not have all the answers and brought in outside expertise. Does the current team management know it all? Do you think that the hurling supporters are happy with two wipe outs in succeeding weeks?. There are no nine or ten top class players missing. Dont delude yourself. Lets be blunt. Lets call it as it is. It is time to stop deluding ourselves. There are some players of high quality missing. Remember other counties havent fielded full teams either. We are in a terrible hole. Even worse is the danger that we could be humiliated by an average Cork team if the team management does not change tack.
Cornerstone referred to the shambolic defense. There appears to be an application of the soccer zonal marking approach. It is lunacy in hurling.
I am not anti Derek McGrath as a person. I am anti pedestrian hurling with too much picking and poking and hand passing and soloing into trouble.
The tactics adopted yesterday did not work. The tactics adopted against Clare failed. Is it too much to ask for a complete rethink and the introduction of a skilled backs and skilled forwards coach from outside the country. Lets be blunt: The expertise does not exist within the county.
Exactly this, that money they're spending on a trip to Portugal would be much better used in this regard too. What they're going to do in Portugal that can't be done here is beyond me, it looks like diva stuff! More faffin around and wasting time and effort.0 -
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QUOTE=PTH2009;89608885]Mcgrath wont lose his job either because of the 3 year plan that he has and cant see Player power going against him either because a big portion of the squad grew up with him as coach (Dls college, De la salle).
If we get by 20 points by Dublin than its time to rethink management[/QUOTE]
He has to be goven the year now i am contributing as a friemd of waterford i have the option to withdraw that funding if i want . enough people do that he might go0 -
Mcgrath wont lose his job either because of the 3 year plan that he has and cant see Player power going against him either because a big portion of the squad grew up with him as coach (Dls college, De la salle).
If we get by 20 points by Dublin than its time to rethink management
Just out of interest, did you have coaches growing up that you didn't like? Would you be extremely cheesed off if they followed you around for your adult career also!?
A good example of that would be Ronan O'Gara and Declan Kidney. Kidney managed every team ROG played on from schools up to Ireland. Everyone assumed that they had a brilliant understanding and working relationship, but it was the complete opposite - they didn't get on at all.
We will not lose by 20 points to Dublin. I can see us winning again.0 -
utter ****ethinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Look ,the majiority of people know here,im a very ,straight out ,no barrels held back poster,espiceally when it comes to Cork ,and dont accept or glorify failure or go for morale victorys.
There is a lot of issuse in waterford ,alright ,that need to be sorted,but what i would say is Waterford had two huge games back to back ,against two ,not one ,but two Cody and Davy ,that are Ruthless and were unlucky that they had no game against lesser teams to find there feet after last week.I wouldnt be calling for mangements head just yet.
After Ennis,the last place you want to go for redemption is Knowlan park ,and Cats have a freshness ,and new lads playing for there places so the Hunger in kk is back this year.
Waterford must be realistic,never going to challenge for all ireland this year or be close.
They and i geuinely mean this,arent miles of the rest of the chasing pack .Kilkenny have got 14 goals ,clare ten ,and most of these at home .I gurantee you as cats and clare showed would beaten most teams out the gate at home this league at home.
Kilkenny bar awful shooting would have beaten dubs away ,if they got them at home would have beaten them well.
Clare didnt beat galway today but has cusack had said on rte,Clare didnt target that game.Jesus 14 men and they had no intensity ,and happy draw,davy wnt admit it but he wanted to keep the lads grounded.
He targeted tipp and waterford and both paid the price.Today they had already qualifed .
My point is no other team in the top 8 would have done hugely better than waterford away from home to those two teams,the top two teams in the country ,and waterford unlike Galway,dublin ,and Tipp have new management.MY point is waterford are way off the top two but i would say much not much separtates ,them from galway and ,dublin ,and tippereary(ye dominated them up play)
Cork have been poor in 4 awful games bar today we showed better ,and yes we would be favourites but we have problems at 3 and half back and 9 and trying to refine a game plan ,short game ,so were not miles ahead of ye at all .
Limerick are the same,o grady has a work in progress.
I wouldnt judge Mcgrath on the last two games hughely as ,i said no other team bar the top two would have done much better up there.
I said it on the cork thread ,last week if had to go to ennis or knowlan park we would with our weakness been beaten by ten or more as i gurantee you clare and kilkenny would have got goals as our full back is a problem aera .
The real test to see is Sunday .And i said it on the cork thread ,i expect a close game but i think ye will edge it at home.
Ye are only the county with cats up to today that used most players 30 in 5 games ,and the only county that has the lowest number of players that had started all game,,in just 6 lads ,out side the Cats with just 3.But kilkenny have such depth and an expierence and belief Cody ,with all ireland winners ,there transition is always smoother as wateford dont have that winning expierence ,and its a new management team .
A lot of expiermenation by Mcgrath and company so far.Now Dublin are beatable at home .Win that and ye stay up ,and against top teams have learned a lot regards yere squad in the league.Cork had 5 games,yet one real test ,the next one is sunday.If we loose ,we had just two.
Waterford shouldnt judge mcgrath too much on the last two games.It what happens from Sunday on ,is more of a gauge as an all ireland semifinal and building foundations with a new team is the target realisticallz for this year .You cant be Great at the start of any new reigme but you must Start from the bottom and work up to be great.
Beat dublin,and yere not in a dark place,as its new management .A loss and yes its a huge setback to develop a team next year in a poor divison against poor teams bar one.
Waterford are the only team in div 1 with a new management team though ,and as always a maiden voyage has stromy seas to encountes.The key is to stay afloat ,and that test is next sunday .
All is far from lost with waterford hurling.0 -
We have a home tie in Walsh Park against Dublin next Sunday at 3.30pm
Very bad fixture making, but no surprise there. Given that their recent meeting was in Walsh Park, they should be meeting in Parnell Park. Better still, it could be played in a neutral ground and fixed as a double header with the Dublin v Mayo football match on Saturday night in Croke Park, with a 5pm throw-in. That would be a perfectly common sense thing to do, which is why they haven't done it.0 -
Very bad fixture making, but no surprise there. Given that their recent meeting was in Walsh Park, they should be meeting in Parnell Park. Better still, it could be played in a neutral ground and fixed as a double header with the Dublin v Mayo football match on Saturday night in Croke Park, with a 5pm throw-in. That would be a perfectly common sense thing to do, which is why they haven't done it.
Neutral in croker woth dubs outnumbering our support ten to one.my eye
Rules were decided before comp we won the toss0 -
A lot of people can't wait for this team to fail.0
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Very bad fixture making, but no surprise there. Given that their recent meeting was in Walsh Park, they should be meeting in Parnell Park. Better still, it could be played in a neutral ground and fixed as a double header with the Dublin v Mayo football match on Saturday night in Croke Park, with a 5pm throw-in. That would be a perfectly common sense thing to do, which is why they haven't done it.
Not bad fixture making its the rules of the league. Namely that home advantage for the Quarter Final or Relegation Play off will go to team that
- Had only 2 home games in the group stage of the league if the other team in the play off had 3 home games
Or in the event that both teams had 2 home games or both had 3 home games
- Neutral venue if both affected county boards agree on one
Or if in the event that they do not
- Home advantage will be decided by the toss of a coin
Rules are the rules and everyone is aware of them at the start of the league. It's even more surprising given your constant insistance on other items of protocol though when it suits you Flukey.,0 -
I'm glad to see some common sense is starting to come through on the thread today. Yesterday's second half was really horrible to sit through, complete loss of confidence throughout the team, no organisation and no plan. Heads went down after the second goal of the half went in and that is inexcusable. Both the management and players have a lot of questions to answer and owe much more to the fans who travel and support the team.
I guess its not surprising to see every time the team wins or loses this thread turns into a pro Derek McGrath/pro Michael Ryan slingfest. Its disappointing though. Yes, Ryan shouldnt have been dismissed and worse again in the way he was. But we have a new management team in charge now and they have to be given our support and time. Worrying signs, but is it the end of the world? No. We arent the first and wont be the last side to get a hiding in Nowlan Park, all of Tipp, Galway, Cork, Clare have gotten taken apart there in recent years.
As I said yesterday morning, relegation wouldnt be the worst thing in the world but I dont want to see the team go down. Hopefully they will get a huge supportive turn out on Sunday at Walsh Park - Supportive doesnt mean people going nuts if we go a few points down by the way0 -
A simple home and away system should operate. Even that falls from year to year, like Kildare wanting to play in Croke Park in recent years in the league instead of Newbridge. Come the summer they are then bitching about matches not being played in Newbridge. Anyway, I digress. If the game is in Walsh Park, then that is where it is. Another day out for the Dubs (though we are always told that they never have to travel). I like our road trips, but unfortunately I can't go on Sunday due to other commitments. So it will be at least 3 years before we can have a league game there again: Different divisions next year; should be in Parnell Park, if they are in the same division in 2016 and then back to Walsh Park in 2017.0
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Dublin supporters traveling to Walsh Park in Waterford for the hurling relegation play-off on Sunday can now avail of fares from €9.99 each way before and after the game, for more info and to book go to www.irishrail.ie/dublinsupporters
I imagine a few of our crowd will be down too0 -
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I'm glad to see some common sense is starting to come through on the thread today. Yesterday's second half was really horrible to sit through, complete loss of confidence throughout the team, no organisation and no plan. Heads went down after the second goal of the half went in and that is inexcusable. Both the management and players have a lot of questions to answer and owe much more to the fans who travel and support the team.
I guess its not surprising to see every time the team wins or loses this thread turns into a pro Derek McGrath/pro Michael Ryan
slingfest. Its disappointing though. Yes, Ryan shouldnt have been dismissed and worse again in the way he was. But we have a new management team in charge now and they have to be given our support and time. Worrying signs, but is it the end of the world? No. We arent the first and wont be the last side to get a hiding in Nowlan Park, all of Tipp, Galway, Cork, Clare have gotten taken apart there in recent years.
As I said yesterday morning, relegation wouldnt be the worst thing in the world but I dont want to see the team go down. Hopefully they will get a huge supportive turn out on Sunday at Walsh Park - Supportive doesnt mean people going nuts if we go a few points down by the way
Clare actually had a sizeable win the last time they played in Nowlan Park. With all the injuries Waterford have I for one expect them to still have a good season.0 -
Very bad fixture making, but no surprise there. Given that their recent meeting was in Walsh Park, they should be meeting in Parnell Park. Better still, it could be played in a neutral ground and fixed as a double header with the Dublin v Mayo football match on Saturday night in Croke Park, with a 5pm throw-in. That would be a perfectly common sense thing to do, which is why they haven't done it.
Dublin are involved in the Leinster U21 football final on 2nd April. Their opponents, Meath, wanted to toss a coin for home or away, but Dublin wouldn't as Parnell Park is unavailable due to floodlight repair...0 -
A simple home and away system should operate. Even that falls from year to year, like Kildare wanting to play in Croke Park in recent years in the league instead of Newbridge. Come the summer they are then bitching about matches not being played in Newbridge. Anyway, I digress. If the game is in Walsh Park, then that is where it is. Another day out for the Dubs (though we are always told that they never have to travel). I like our road trips, but unfortunately I can't go on Sunday due to other commitments. So it will be at least 3 years before we can have a league game there again: Different divisions next year; should be in Parnell Park, if they are in the same division in 2016 and then back to Walsh Park in 2017.
This is our 3rd home league game in a row against Dublin. On the other hand we have been away to Clare and Kilkenny the last two years and away to tipp 3 of the last 4. Common sense does not seem to come into play with the fixtures list. Can't say I'm unhappy to get the home draw this Sunday besides we need the money0 -
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Very bad fixture making, but no surprise there. Given that their recent meeting was in Walsh Park, they should be meeting in Parnell Park. Better still, it could be played in a neutral ground and fixed as a double header with the Dublin v Mayo football match on Saturday night in Croke Park, with a 5pm throw-in. That would be a perfectly common sense thing to do, which is why they haven't done it.
Yeah it's shocking how favourably the GAA look on Waterford sometimes...the nerve of them to allow us toss for it.
Would also be the first time I've ever heard anyone refer to a venue as a neutral one, where by it would mean one team would have been double (at least) the support they would have had otherwise. Wouldn't actually mind the game being in Croke Park myself as I am up here at the moment, but please lets call a spade a spade.0 -
It's been a depressing 2 weeks following the county team. When I think back to this time last year I felt confident about the direction the team was going in and the ability of the management to get the best out of the team. All I was looking for was to continue the progress been made and introduce younger forwards as they matured. Now 12 months later it's like there is no game plan and no hope for the future.0
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A lot of people can't wait for this team to fail.
either that or they really dislike a team that appearing last july to making progress/moving forward to go to 20 point defeats...if they come within 10 of Dublin they will do well....it'll be more to do with dublins inability to put away teams or management work a miracle...I don't want to see them fail...just don't see why there seems to be acceptance of what wouldn't be accepted before under different management???alllcounty wrote: »It's been a depressing 2 weeks following the county team. When I think back to this time last year I felt confident about the direction the team was going in and the ability of the management to get the best out of the team. All I was looking for was to continue the progress been made and introduce younger forwards as they matured. Now 12 months later it's like there is no game plan and no hope for the future.
+1 depressing to see it fall asunder...I really taught they would push on under mcgrath0 -
tomwaterford wrote: »either that or they really dislike a team that appearing last july to making progress/moving forward to go to 20 point defeats...if they come within 10 of Dublin they will do well....it'll be more to do with dublins inability to put away teams or management work a miracle...I don't want to see them fail...just don't see why there seems to be acceptance of what wouldn't be accepted before under different management???
+1 depressing to see it fall asunder...I really taught they would push on under mcgrath
Now you are saying that they take all the blame when we lose and even if we beat Dublin next week they deserve none of the credit because it will all be down to Dublin's failings?
Not to get personal with you or anything, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I do agree with some of the points you made earlier in the thread - but would you accept that you are being extremely negative0 -
jack o shea wrote: »im not trolling at all robo, id be outraged if my county team were planning a good oul jolly to portugal at the expense of supporters after getting the crap bet out of them 2 wkends in a row,dont understand why you wouldnt be the same.
If you bothered to read my previous post youll see im the one who brought up the subject0 -
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alllcounty wrote: »It's been a depressing 2 weeks following the county team. When I think back to this time last year I felt confident about the direction the team was going in and the ability of the management to get the best out of the team. All I was looking for was to continue the progress been made and introduce younger forwards as they matured. Now 12 months later it's like there is no game plan and no hope for the future.
No hope for the future?? Really?
Could this be the most hysterical thread in the history of the internet - sorry but that is a crazy statement0
This discussion has been closed.
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