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Is alcoholism a disease?

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    #122
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Don't confuse experience with expertise.



    If the knowledge is coming from an unreliable source then its not worth the paper it's written on.



    You're the one getting upset pal. You've little to go but a dearly held opinion. There is no indisputable evidence that alcoholism is a disease.

    Deal with it.

    I didn't confuse anything but experience does lead to understanding which is what has been referred to do far.


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    #123
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    ScumLord wrote: »
    That's a fair point, I even have a friend who just can't drink, in the sense that one or two pints turns him into a complete nutter. It's a broad issue that has no clear lines saying what is and isn't an alcoholic. I guess just, has a problem with drink would cover it.

    And there are even some who turn into complete nutters without drink, they would be in general refferred to as dry drunks but those of us who know we are alcoholics know that these are people who's disease is progressing even without alcohol.


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    #124
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    johnty56 wrote: »
    Sorry, but I'm going on 4 years of study of psychology... not dearly held opinion. My opinion has been formed by reading widely on the topic, looking at both sides of the argument, and then deciding ,on weight of evidence, which is the more logical.

    Is Heroinism a disease?


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    #125
    Kettleson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭Kettleson


    worded wrote: »
    I've an alcoholic relative and to me it's indulgence not a disease.

    Obesity is not a disease in he third world either.

    Man or mouse? We would all love to gamble, drink, smoke etc but some of us can control our urges.

    Can't stop or won't stop? Man up

    I'm with you on this one. Finding "Ones Inner Child" approach?

    Not for me that one. Finding ones "Inner Grown Up Responsible Adult" would be the approach I would be recommending.


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    #126
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    worded wrote: »
    Can't stop or won't stop? Man up
    Ya, that should fix the problem. Why didn't someone think of that before?
    Play To Kill wrote: »
    And there are even some who turn into complete nutters without drink, they would be in general refferred to as dry drunks but those of us who know we are alcoholics know that these are people who's disease is progressing even without alcohol.
    I've never heard of a "dry drunk". I don't think you can apply your problems to other peoples problems.


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    #127
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    johnty56 wrote: »
    Sorry

    No need to apologise.
    I'm going on 4 years of study of psychology... not dearly held opinion.

    Your opinion is all you have sweetie. You could study psychology for 100 years and you'd still be expected to provide credible sources which, unlike me, you've failed to do so far.


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    #128
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Is Heroinism a disease?

    No, that is just stupidity. However, addiction to heroin is among a range of problems with a likely neurological basis, many of which are classified as mental disease/disorder.. For example, not everyone who takes heroin becomes a heroin addict, just as not everyone who takes a drink becomes an alcoholic. There are inherent differences within people, their physiology, brain anatomy and genetic factors which make them more susceptible to such problems..


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    #129
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Your opinion is all you have sweetie. You could study psychology for 100 years and you'd still be expected to provide credible sources which, unlike me, you've failed to do so far.


    Haha, sweetie... you wish kiddo. So a quick google gave you a link to an article, the abstract of which you referred to.. tell me a little more about the credentials of the authors, their experience in the field and their other work in the literature?


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    #130
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    Kettleson wrote: »
    I'm with you on this one. Finding "Ones Inner Child" approach?

    Not for me that one. Finding ones "Inner Grown Up Responsible Adult" would be the approach I would be recommending.

    A lot of alcoholics in recovery would agree with this, at some point in my life I seemed to stop maturing and alcoholism took hold. I had a lot of growing up to do when I stopped and there was no softly softly approach from AA members either.


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    #131
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    johnty56 wrote: »
    No, that is just stupidity. However, addiction to heroin is among a range of problems with a likely neurological basis, many of which are classified as mental disease/disorder..

    Why is Heroinism stupid but Alcoholism makes perfect sense?

    After calling it stupid, you basically just said that addiction to heroin has a neurological basis, but so does addiction to alcohol.

    Would you like to take a second stab at it?


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    A lot of alcoholics in recovery would agree with this, at some point in my life I seemed to stop maturing and alcoholism took hold. I had a lot of growing up to do when I stopped and there was no softly softly approach from AA members either.

    Thats one of the great things about AA, you get no belly rubs with a velvet glove. Theyvery often kick your arse :)


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    #133
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    johnty56 wrote: »
    addiction to heroin is among a range of problems with a likely neurological basis

    Bollocks. Evidence?


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    #134
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't think you can apply your problems to other peoples problems.

    All alcoholics share the same problems, our life stories are different but the disease is the same for all of us.


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    #135
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Why is Heroinism stupid but Alcoholism makes perfect sense?

    After calling it stupid, you basically just said that addiction to heroin has a neurological basis, but so does addiction to alcohol.

    Would you like to take a second stab at it?

    Groan... Are you 5 years old? I'm going to bed.


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    #136
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    johnty56 wrote: »
    Groan... Are you 5 years old? I'm going to bed.

    Now that's stupidity.

    Deal with the question or don't bother entering threads to derail them by telling us when you want to sleep.


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    #137
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    And there are even some who turn into complete nutters without drink, they would be in general refferred to as dry drunks but those of us who know we are alcoholics know that these are people who's disease is progressing even without alcohol.

    I'm not sure how someone who is not drinking can be developing the symptoms of alcoholism? That's not really how it works.


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    #138
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #139
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Why is Heroinism stupid but Alcoholism makes perfect sense?

    After calling it stupid, you basically just said that addiction to heroin has a neurological basis, but so does addiction to alcohol.

    Would you like to take a second stab at it?

    As far as I could read he just explained how the two addictions are the same.


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    #140
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Bollocks. Evidence?


    If you are still as obviously angry about the subject of alcoholism in the morning as you appear to be now, the reasons for which I can only guess at, I will provide links to reputable evidence that you may be able to access. You will probably be able to read the abstracts online anyway, but judging from your earlier post, that will no doubt be all you'd read. If you want to find out a little more yourself, I would suggest googling it. Its all there. In writing. There are pictures too.
    Goodnight, sweetie.


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    #141
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    Kettleson wrote: »
    I'm with you on this one. Finding "Ones Inner Child" approach?

    Not for me that one. Finding ones "Inner Grown Up Responsible Adult" would be the approach I would be recommending.

    I know a chronic alcoholic who wreaked havoc on his family and then just stopped in his 60s. His health was suffering and once it affected him personally it was time to stop. But not till then. I'd love to party for 45 years as well but I'm not that selfish. Imagine putting your habit be it smokes, drink, hash or what ever before your kids well being ?

    Another fellow has two kids by different women. He recently learned of the second one now aged 20 years. His head was wrecked over it it was!

    Another one favours coke over looking after his kids.

    Grow up lads the party is over.


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    #142
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    johnty56 wrote: »
    Goodnight, sweetie.

    How many times are you going to tell us you're going to sleep?

    Just go to sleep!


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    #143
    Kettleson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭Kettleson


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    A lot of alcoholics in recovery would agree with this, at some point in my life I seemed to stop maturing and alcoholism took hold. I had a lot of growing up to do when I stopped and there was no softly softly approach from AA members either.

    Thanks Play To Kill.

    I cannot begin to imagine what it must have felt like for you to have lost your child and what you and your family must have went through.

    I cannot think of anything worse to have to experience in life, and I wish I could find some sensible words to express myself a bit better. Best wishes to you.


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    #144
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »
    I'm not sure how someone who is not drinking can be developing the symptoms of alcoholism? That's not really how it works.

    Because the compulsion continues whether you are drinking or not, removing alcohol doesn't remove alcoholism.


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    #145
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    How do you catch alcoholism if it's a disease?


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    #146
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    johnty56 wrote: »
    I will provide links to reputable evidence that you may be able to access.

    You really should if you want to be taken seriously.
    I would suggest googling it. Its all there. In writing. There are pictures too.

    It seems you've never heard of The Scientific Method? If you make a claim you need to back it up.

    Most of us got over this hump a few hundred years ago with 'The Enlightenment'. I suggest you catch up.


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    #147
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    Because the compulsion continues whether you are drinking or not, removing alcohol doesn't remove alcoholism.

    Maybe I misread your post but that's not how it came across to me. You seem to imply that people who are "nutters" without drinking are on the way to alcoholism and I think that that's a very broad statement to make.


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    #148
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    You really should if you want to be taken seriously.



    It seems you've never heard of The Scientific Method? If you make a claim you need to back it up.

    Most of us got over this hump a few hundred years ago with 'The Enlightenment'. I suggest you catch up.

    Cathal what qualifies you to say it isn't a disease. I'm not saying it is or isn't i'm not qualified to make that medical call. Are you?


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    #149
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    Alcohol obviously inebriates the mind and drives a socially awkard person towards drink for various reasons. IMO I do not think of it is a disease as such and purely an addiction. Depending on the level of insight of the person and the support in their day to day lives it is completey surmountable.


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    #150
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #151
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

    These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.
    Answer your questions in relation to diabetes, a real disease, at least as real as chemical dependency.

    To make it easy for you to answer your own questions, you can leave out gestational diabetes and Type 2 if you like.


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